Pirates 3, Marlins 2: Bucs' Pitching Does It Again
by Charlie on Apr 21, 2009 9:44 PM EDT
48 comments
Last night Ross Ohlendorf, tonight Jeff Karstens... lately it's seemed like the Pirates' starting pitchers can't go wrong. Actually, Karstens wasn't much more impressive than he usually is, giving up a ton of fly balls, but the Marlins still didn't hit him. The Bucs, meanwhile, pelted Anibal Sanchez early; their hitting slowed down eventually, but by then the damage was done. Freddy Sanchez had another good game, going 3-for-4 with a homer and a double, to raise his OPS to 1.054 for the year. Jason Jaramillo made a couple of nice defensive plays and looked positively Doumit-esque in smacking a long double off the right-field wall in the second.
The Marlins' announcers claimed that the Pirates had a good defense and a good bullpen. Until I see more evidence, I think they're wrong on both counts, and laughably wrong about the bullpen. But I can see where they're coming from with the defense. With Jaramillo in place of Doumit, Nyjer Morgan in left, and Andy LaRoche now having played well in the field for about a week, the Pirates really aren't a bad defensive unit for the first time in... what? A few years?
Also, I try to avoid enjoying these things too much, because they always come back to bite me in the end, but the Pirates are 8-6! Not bad.
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We have more wins than the Cubs.
For now, I’m enjoying it.
I'd rather be dead than singing "Satisfaction" at forty-five. -- M. Jagger
by cocktailsfor2 on Apr 21, 2009 9:47 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The new pitching coach
explains it all. Spin Williams could not get results from these guys. What’s his name the last two years could not get it done. Our new guy, who was cut by the Braves (right?) after years of success, is weaving silk from a cow’s ear. Besides alerting PETA, someone should send him a case of Iron City.
I would point out that a few people noted the improvement in our starting pitching as potential good news f/this year. We lead the league in shut-outs. We are getting quality starts from pitchers 1-5, which means our relievers are more better rested, like Tyler Yates* tonight. Theoretically, that means our relievers do a better job because they’re not worn out coming in in the sixth inning four nights out of the rotation.
by Trogluddite on Apr 21, 2009 9:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
So Far - So Good
The bullpen may be a little more tolerable if the starters can get to the 6th or 7th inning or later most nights. Losing Doumit is much more a concern. Makes you wonder if that loss will get more playing time for Monroe over Moss to try and make up the power. I don’t have the stats in front of me, but it seems we have had our share of decent starts over the last 16 years. We seem to fall flat after Memorial Day. Time will tell.
by Batavia on Apr 21, 2009 10:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Baseball Tonight just previewed a feature on the Pirates pitching. Should be coming up soon. Of course it’s probably going to be Kruk attributing it to “confidence” or something.
by CptnAwesome on Apr 21, 2009 10:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I just turned to check it out
Did I miss it? It’s 10:16.
by Suffering Buc on Apr 21, 2009 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nope, hasn't aired yet
When they went to break, they said “coming up”, so who knows.
by CptnAwesome on Apr 21, 2009 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Should be soon, they’re doing highlights of the game
by CptnAwesome on Apr 21, 2009 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't Get Excited Fellas ...
Doumit’s going down is NOT the end of the world.
Jaramillo has caught the last 18 innings and Pirate pitching has thrown a shutout and given up two runs while winning both games.
You all are soon going to discover that a strong receiver behind the plate will far outweigh the offensive production that Doumit might provide. You’re going to be pleasantly surprised.
The Pirate roster indicates that Jaramillo is a switchhitter. Between him and Diaz (who bats right), I feel very confident that they will adequately handle the catching chores.
Keep watchin.
by thegunner on Apr 21, 2009 10:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
You’re attributing the pitching performances to Jaramillo?
Are you talking about catching defense, or some nebulous ability to calm people down, call a better game, etc.?
Are you saying you’d rather have Jaramillo behind the plate than Doumit? I’m going to ahead and disagree completely with that.
by CptnAwesome on Apr 21, 2009 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And who caught our other three shutouts this season?
Elves?
by Vlad on Apr 22, 2009 6:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
JJ calls a great game
from the dugout, just like Ronnie BallGame.
by bucdaddy on Apr 22, 2009 9:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks...
…for a much-needed LOL this morning. Well done.
by Bishop1973 on Apr 22, 2009 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I read that
as “Elvis.”
HA!
I'd rather be dead than singing "Satisfaction" at forty-five. -- M. Jagger
by cocktailsfor2 on Apr 22, 2009 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Calling good games"
The notion that certain catchers “call good games” and thus create better pitching performances has been debunked. There’s no statistical evidence that catchers show a long-term, repeatable skill to “call a good game” or to “frame pitches” for the umpire. The proposed stat to measure this, CERA, has been show to be pretty much worthless, but unfortunately I don’t have the links right now. Jaramillo’s defense may very well help, but it won’t be be the reason the pitchers perform well (if they do).
by mickeyg13 on Apr 22, 2009 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's true
But it’s not the same as saying a catcher’s defense has no impact on the game. There’s certainly some value in a catcher with a great arm who can help contain the running game. Not only in the way a catcher who throws out 45% of stealers helps a lot more than one who throws out 18%, but also if your catcher has a rep for whipping an accurate pickoff throw down to first from time to time, I imagine the runner would be reluctant to take that extra step off the base, which could result in an out elsewhere on the bases.
Now that I think about it, you don’t see a lot of catcher pickoff attempts these days, do you?
by bucdaddy on Apr 22, 2009 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tony Pena's retirement probably cut the league total in half.
Also worth noting: For as much criticism as Doumit gets for his defense, he’s thrown out 28.6% of runners attempting steals for his career. ML average last year was 27.0%.
by Vlad on Apr 22, 2009 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
karstens and j.wilson related...
they have to be brothers….two very ugly brothers.
by jsn4219 on Apr 21, 2009 10:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm enjoying this
I find myself frequently smiling and laughing in childish joy at the prospect of the Pirates’ being a good team this year
by OpiateOfTheMasses on Apr 22, 2009 12:02 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
... im starting to believe
we are winning with our pitching, which is a very encouraging sign, our offense is clicking too, shall be interesting to see how we do with out doumit, but if we play .500 ball while hes out, WATCH OUT when he returns
by PensRock1 on Apr 22, 2009 12:38 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Not to bring us all down...
But, our relievers CANNOT come in and walk batters. If we are to win the 1 or 2 run games, these guys have to eliminate the free passes. Otherwise, I felt that the Pirates battled and won a game that probably everyone of else felt we would lose(because of the pitching matchup and loss of Doumit).
Referencing an earlier point that CptnAwesome made: Having JJ and Diaz behind the plate will ease the suffering until Doumit gets back. Nobody that is a Pirate fan would rather have JJ or Diaz INSTEAD of Doumit, but, JJ is stronger defensively than Doumit, so the defensive aspect will remain at a high level, the offense will probably not. I am glad that the Pirates haven’t wasted any money or traded away any minor leaguers for some run-down old backstop.
by Piratefan13 on Apr 22, 2009 7:44 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Help on the way?
I hear Benito Santiago is looking for a job. He owes us.
by bucdaddy on Apr 22, 2009 9:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Benito?
Why on earth do we need him? We have Matt Weiters waiting in the mino…oh, that’s right.
Nevermind.
by Bishop1973 on Apr 22, 2009 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Benito? No thanks.
This machine kills fascists.
by Vlad on Apr 22, 2009 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd rather be dead than singing "Satisfaction" at forty-five. -- M. Jagger
by cocktailsfor2 on Apr 22, 2009 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Heh.
Wonder what he’s playing. I like Pete Seeger, but it doesn’t seem like Adolf’s style. And I can’t imagine that Wagner would transpose well…
by Vlad on Apr 22, 2009 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
All those modulations would be really hard to play on a banjo.
by Charlie on Apr 22, 2009 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Another nice win
with stellar starting pitching.
If we keep winning with regularity, Huntington and Coonelly will have to think real hard about occupying bullpen slots with non-performing pieces like Hansen, Veal and Chavez. It won’t work over 162 games.
by patthatt on Apr 22, 2009 9:00 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
If you’d thrown Burnett and Yates into that list, I might be onboard, but Chavez? Has he really been that bad? He’s pitched 6 innings, has a WHIP of 1.00 and has an ERA of 1.50. The only run he’s given up was in the 10-2 win over the Reds, once the game was long decided, and 2 of the three hits and 1 of the three walks he’s allowed were in the same game.
by Bishop1973 on Apr 22, 2009 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bishop1973
I mentioned a few names, not an all-inclusive list of scary relief pitchers for the Bucs.
The problem with the ’pen is that Yates and Burnett should be occupying two of the slots Hansen, Veal and Chavez(“Runs CHV”) currently fill.
We’ve got to find better #3-4 relief options after Capps and Grabow.
By the way, what I’ve seen of Chavez so far this season shows a guy who’s still lucky when he finds the strike zone.
by patthatt on Apr 22, 2009 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Chavez
i wonder if he’s gaining some confidence. After barely making the team because of Meek’s injury/illness, he’s been a flame throwing, strike throwing… flame-striker. Including today, he’s thrown 62 strikes and 32 balls. Last four outings he’s gone right after guys. Small sample and all that, but Russell brought him into a pretty high leverage spot today and he was money.
by azibuck on Apr 22, 2009 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
At what point does Hansen become expendable? I understand the political ramifications owing to his being part of the returns from the Bay trade but will NH give up on him at all this season?
Similarly does Veal’s roster slot become too valuable and we send him back to CHI?
Of course having said that there really isnt anyone in Indy or Altoona who can step up is there? Meek? Bootcheck?
by Mick Kraut on Apr 22, 2009 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Meek would have made the big-league club if he hadn’t missed so much time during spring training because of some small physical ailments and an illness toward the end. I’d be surprised if we didn’t see him up in the next couple of weeks.
I don’t think they give up on Hansen since he was part of the Bay trade and their hope is that Kerrigan can fix whatever is wrong with him (I doubt that’s possible, since the guy has a $10 arm and a $1 head, much like Ollie Perez).
As for Veal, he cost the team $50K and if they send him back to CHI, they get $25K back. No huge loss if he doesn’t make it, so I’d bet he’d be go long before Hansen.
by Bishop1973 on Apr 22, 2009 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Meek would probably be OK, once he's healthy.
Also Jason Davis and Jeff Sues, depending on what type of guy you need.
I don’t think there’s even a chance until it starts costing us games, though.
by Vlad on Apr 22, 2009 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, and Juan Mateo.
Crap, how’d I forget him?
by Vlad on Apr 22, 2009 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thought I'd share this Yahoo article on the Buccos, specifically pitching
Also regarding “calling a game” I think the effect of a catcher on the pitching staff is partly the ability to calm people down, but mostly the preparation and game planning that he does with the pitchers ahead of time. Seems like the coaches are calling the games in this case.
by GTrain on Apr 22, 2009 10:32 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Comma in the URL b0rks the site software here.
Try this, instead.
Kind of neat to see someone in the MSM predicting a 77-win season, even if I don’t quite buy it yet. Seems like a long time ago that people were talking about 100 losses as a fait accompli, doesn’t it?
by Vlad on Apr 22, 2009 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If they don’t attempt to sell McLouth and Big LaRoche at the deadline, then sure 75 wins could be in the works. But does anyone really see them standing pat come July 31?
by ddff22 on Apr 22, 2009 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure, they might move LaRoche/Freddy/Jack.
But if they get something solid back in return, we might not necessarily be any worse.
Nate is probably safe for at least a couple of years, with that extension, unless they get a knockout offer.
by Vlad on Apr 22, 2009 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hope so. Maybe we can get the Yankees to hire Keith Law as a consultant. (ass)
Thanks for helping with the link. Just nice to read some positive assessments rather than “this won’t last” Also, love the picture. Reminds me of the end of the Saved by The Bell theme, when Kelly misses on the group five.
McLouth is The Trouth
by GTrain on Apr 22, 2009 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They also could bring up McCutchen, shifting either Morgan or Moss to the bench and McLouth to LF/RF. That might offset any drop from a Wilson/Sanchez/LaRoche deal in terms of offense.
by Bishop1973 on Apr 22, 2009 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The way things are going, I would think that’d have to be Moss if Nyjer keeps it up (a big if). That creates an odd situation with him and Hinske. I tihnk Nyjer keeping this up and figuring out how to fit in Cutch is a problem we’d all like to have
McLouth is The Trouth
by GTrain on Apr 22, 2009 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Presumably either or both...
…would be picking up PT at 1B.
by Vlad on Apr 22, 2009 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Bucs' Pitching Does It Again"
Would have been applicable last year too, but with a slightly different meaning.
by Dan H on Apr 22, 2009 12:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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