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Brewers 10, Pirates 5: Tempers Flare, Bullpen Implodes

Andy LaRoche catches a popup in Monday's game in Milwaukee while Brian Bixler backs him up.

More photos » by Darren Hauck - AP

Andy LaRoche catches a popup in Monday's game in Milwaukee while Brian Bixler backs him up.

The Pirates got a bunch of offense in this game--more, perhaps, than their five-run total makes it look. Nyjer Morgan, Freddy Sanchez and Adam LaRoche picked up two hits apiece, and Andy LaRoche had a walk, an RBI, and a double.

Brian Bixler looked absolutely clueless at the plate, though, striking out four times, and the pitching was downright ugly--Jeff Karstens allowed five runs and three homers in five innings, and while Jesse Chavez (who actually threw some breaking balls today!) and Evan Meek got through their innings unscathed, Tyler Yates and John Grabow combined to give up five runs in the eighth inning.  All told, the Pirates surrendered eight walks and two hit batsmen, and while their were explanations for some of those (Karstens' pelting of Ryan Braun appeared to be intentional, Grabow's walk of Braun was definitely intentional, and Chavez's lone walk came after a couple of very close pitches), it still added up to an ugly, and lengthy, display. Yates, in particular, has just been horrible this year, and today he couldn't find the plate even after trying to take a couple MPH off his fastball to do so.

Oh well--this might have been a winnable game if not for the bullpen's implosion, but when you have Jeff Karstens out there every fifth day, things like this are simply going to happen. I can stand the occasional ugly game from Karstens if he gets through five innings and promises he'll make it up to me next time.

Things got pretty heated after the Braun HBP, by the way--Braun seemed to be angry only at Karstens, and he appeared to have a friendly conversation with LaRoche when he got to first, but the next two games of this series could be interesting.

*     *     *

A couple of administrative notes while I have your attention:

-P- Traffic here at Bucs Dugout has more than doubled since last April, which means that our game threads are becoming more populated. Today's had 386 comments as of this writing. This is great and I hope this continues. When it does, though, I'm going to close gamethreads at around 300 comments and create overflow threads where you can continue discussion. This way we'll avoid crazy load times. I would have done this today, but I wanted to give notice that we'll be doing that in the future.

-P- In general, I'm pretty hands-off about moderating the discussion here, and I'm certainly no prude. There are, however, a couple things I won't stand for. I'd rather you didn't use profanity because I do want this to be a family site, but I generally won't delete it because I don't want to stifle conversation. If you go way over the line, though, your comment may be removed. You know what I mean--anything unusually vivid, pornographic, or gross. 

Also, I will remove anything I judge to be sexist or homophobic (or racist, although racism fortunately hasn't been a problem). This includes any comment that attempts to emasculate a player or a poster by making them sound feminine. I know that's a very locker-room thing to do, but we're just not going to have that here. I've been lax about that in the past, but no more.

My policy has generally been to read everything in the gamethreads and scrub anything nasty, but it's reaching the point where that's not always possible. So I'll delete stuff where I can and take more draconian measures when things get out of hand. Please try to keep it civil so that I don't have to ban people.

-P- Please make some effort to get along with other posters. 99% of you do just fine in this area, but if you disagree with someone it's better to try to convince them rather than by just repeating the same point over and over or by trying to bait them.

And here's a hint: it's really, really early in the season, and most people here recognize that ten- or fifteen-game samples don't really mean much in the grand scheme of things. If you want to make an argument that cuts against a player's performance record before this year, you're welcome to do so and there might even be good reasons to do so, but you'll probably want to offer more evidence than just his stats from this year.

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Andy had an RBI double?

Anyway, good luck with the moderation stuff. I can’t imagine how much work it must be to keep this place running… On my end I’ll cut out the profanity. Sorry about that.

by shayborg on Apr 28, 2009 12:33 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Oops, you’re right about LaRoche. An RBI and a double, but on separate plays.

by Charlie on Apr 28, 2009 12:38 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not a problem. It’d never been a problem before. That particular comment was one a lot of people take offense to, and I can see why they do, that’s all.

by Charlie on Apr 28, 2009 12:39 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If you say so ...

But I didn’t notice that these are huge problems, really, because you run a classy place here, and people seem to behave accordingly. Guess it’s better to try to head off problems before they becaome huge, though.

What shall we do, however, about people who refuse to be convinced, against all evidence? It’s pretty clear sometimes that a few (they seem to tend to be newcomers) make it a point to bait the regulars. It works both ways.

It’s great that you’re drawing all the fresh eyeballs, BTW. There must be some satisfaction/validation there for all the time and effort you put into this labor of love.

We need to have a Charlie Appreciation Night or something when you move back East. Can we book FOX J?

by bucdaddy on Apr 28, 2009 12:37 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Well, about 95% of what goes on in the comments here is great. A lot of the threads are amazing. It’s just reaching the point where it’s difficult for me to read everything, so I wanted to make sure I got a warning out there in writing to the handful of people who occasionally do cause problems.

In tonight’s game thread, I probably deleted about 10 comments. That stuff with Ryan Braun brought out some nastiness in people. So it also seemed like a good idea to mention this just in case things get worse in the next two games against the Brewers.

Yeah, the gradual increase in traffic really keeps me going. It’s great. Thanks for the encouragement.

“When” I move back east, huh? We’ll see.

by Charlie on Apr 28, 2009 12:45 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bullpen to Blame

Implosion is definitely the right way to describe what happened in the bottom of the eighth last night. As long as our bullpen does not repeat this effort, I think the Pirates pitching will hold up. The Bucs continue to back their pitching with solid bats from unexpected role players such as Craig Monroe and Robinzon Diaz.

by Ariba!#21 on Apr 28, 2009 9:41 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Has Tyler Yates been sent to AAA yet?

At some point this year, these two teams will brawl. After yesterday, and Brauns antics last year. With all of the Capps/Fielder history as well. I would put money down that this will all boil over this year at some point.

by backtocali on Apr 28, 2009 9:48 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I hope so

Few things funnier than a baseball “brawl,” especially when all those tough guys in the bullpen come (slowly) racing in from 100 yards away (because you know that’s more running than they do in a month) and it takes a good 15-20 seconds for them to arrive at the “brawl,” which they hope hope hope is over by then so they won’t actually have to risk throwing a punch.

Otherwise, they could just fight in the bullpen, couldn’t they?

by bucdaddy on Apr 28, 2009 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Great Bill Simmons Anatomy of a Basebrawl article

http://proxy.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?id=1239718

Articles like this are the reason this guy is so popular. Hilarious stuff from a while back, outlining the rules and elements of a basebrawl. There is a whole section about the relievers charging in 3 minutes too late.

I wonder if one bullpen has ever just run over to the other bullpen to fight?

McLouth is The Trouth

by GTrain on Apr 28, 2009 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Antics: foolish, outrageous or amusing behavior. He watched one HR in a big game against the Cards who play plenty of beanball. FWIW, Pujols routinely watches his as does Soriano and plenty of other players.

What will probably happen is that a Pirate player will be drilled tonight or tomorrow. I doubt outside of Karstens’ immaturity and perhaps Capps, the Brewers players have even dislike of the players on the Pirates squad. If there were one of those fake brawls, it’d probably include a bunch of opposing players asking about where they were going to dinner and how everyone’s kids are doing.

by ol Pete on Apr 28, 2009 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don’t think anybody wants a piece of Albert.

McLouth is The Trouth

by GTrain on Apr 28, 2009 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yates, Brawl

Yates has been, in the words of Charles Barkley, turrible. We came back from the Met game (Marlins are equally unimpressive in person btw) and lost our minds when Freddy tied it up only to see Yates trotting in. I feel like every team has that “oh no” reliever that the manager seems to trust for some reason while every fan is mortified when they see him on the mound. For me that guy is Yates.

Also, I wouldn’t mind these guys get in a brawl. They’re on their way to proving they belong and nothing says “we’re not going to get pushed around anymore” like a good rumble. Just ask the Rays (I know, I know) about the message it sent when they stood up to the Yankees and their manager backed them up last spring. Hinske looks ready to bust a skull for sure. I wonder if the LaRoche brothers have some kind of special move where Andy flies off of Adams shoulders through a table or something. That would be amazing. The only thing is with all of these injuries, suspensions would be bad.

McLouth is The Trouth

by GTrain on Apr 28, 2009 10:09 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

So would

guys pulling hamstrings jumping off the bench.

by bucdaddy on Apr 28, 2009 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well

They can shoot fireballs if they eat Fire Flowers, and they’re excellent jumpers. Also, they can eat mushrooms and grow to unusually huge sizes…

There's no crying in baseball...

by phillybucco on Apr 28, 2009 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

(the LaRoche Bros. that is…)

There's no crying in baseball...

by phillybucco on Apr 28, 2009 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

message received and understood....

it’s not like I’ve been the second coming of Andrew Dice Clay, but I’ve probably been more guilty than others of dropping an F-bomb here and there. I’ll keep it clean from here on out.

and congrats on the increased web traffic, Charlie! if this web site worked on my ancient home computer (if it were human, it’d be in third grade right now), you’d get even more traffic….

by humbucker on Apr 28, 2009 10:17 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

BTW

My three Pirates go-to sites are this one (first, always first), honestwagner and vanslyke. Pat runs a pretty clean shop too, and Bones and Rowdy tend to be a little … well, rowdier. So it’s not like there isn’t an outlet for baseball raunchiness if you’re up for it.

by bucdaddy on Apr 28, 2009 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

New Site

I read this site and WHYGAVS. I like this one for the community aspect, while Pat’s is more of one person’s viewpoints. Nice strengths for each, no knock on Charlie’s writing which is good as well. Every once in a while I’ll check out Mondesi’s House and if anyone is a fan of Best Week Ever (the show or the site) Dan Hopper who does a lot of their writing recently started his own Pittsburgh Sports Blog Elvis Has Left

 http://elvishasleft.wordpress.com/

I like Hopper on BWE so I’m going to check it ou

McLouth is The Trouth

by GTrain on Apr 28, 2009 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just read Elvis has left for about 20 minutes

Hilarious stuff IMO.

McLouth is The Trouth

by GTrain on Apr 28, 2009 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You Da Man, Charlie!!

We all greatly appreciate the moderating job you do here. It’s (mostly) a thankless job, so we should take advantage of the few opportunities to say THANK YOU!!

Your rules are sensible and I’m sure that 99.9% of us posters are happy to comply.

I had already said that I’m swearing off any more posts with my opinion on Nyjer Morgan until he’s had at least 100 plate appearances (The Gunner’s Rule).

Me, I’m wondering if I’m crazy for hoping that Hansen gets better soon so Yates can be sent to Indianapolis? Probably.

by WstCstBucco on Apr 28, 2009 11:44 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Best thread ever!

From Maro Bros reference to basebrawls with a little bit of Pirate chatter – this thread is a microcosm of what is great about this site!

BTW – Never have I been so leary of a Pirate reliever (Yates) since Bob “Round Tripper” Kipper!

by vanslyke on Apr 28, 2009 1:23 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Good Call Charlie

Spirited discussion need not descend in to the gutter. On the hockey sites I populate, Sid Crosby takes it pretty bad. I sometimes wonder if these clowns who deride him as “Cindy” understand that they are not only insulting him, but also insulting half the planet in the bargain — including their own mothers, sisters, wives, etc..

"Never mistake motion for action." - Ernest Hemingway

by SubLime on Apr 29, 2009 8:04 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Right. Exactly.

by Charlie on Apr 29, 2009 8:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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