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Minor League Ball Previews Pirates' Draft

This is a pretty cool review of Pirates scouting director Greg Smith's history with the Bucs and Tigers. 

Smith is exceptionally good at picking players that were valued more highly coming into the draft, but fell for whatever reason.  He has continuously gotten players in places they should already be gone, and that is only done with quality planning and execution.  That's what comes with experience.  Comparing his Tiger years to his draft with the Pirates is difficult to do, because he was using different scouts, working with a different budget, and with different bosses.  Add to that the fact that 2008 was his first draft in four years, a layoff that is quite important to point out.  However, thanks to a huge budget, Smith got good value picks in the first few rounds, followed by getting good players with obscene bonuses later on.  In general, Smith seems to heavily favor college players, with a good amount of focus on tall, projectable college pitchers.

The report guesses that the Pirates might select North Carolina pitcher Alex White or former Missouri pitcher Aaron Crow with the fourth overall pick. Most Pirates fans, including myself, are wary of taking pitchers that early, not only because they often get injured, but because of their track record:

The history of baseball's draft since it began in 1965 is unmistakable. You can project exceptional hitters with about a 50 percent success rate. You can't project No. 1 overall pitchers at all.

Nobody -- n-o-b-o-d-y -- has used a No. 1 overall pick on a pitcher and been glad they did it. Thirteen teams have tried it since the draft began in 1965. Nine have gotten egg on their faces. The lucky four got Andy Benes (155-139), Tim Belcher (146-140), Mike Moore (161-176) and Floyd Bannister (134-143). No Hall of Famers. Just a bunch of guys who could throw a ball through a wall when they were young but never became great.

...Since '65, 102 pitchers have been taken within the first five picks. Not one is going to the Hall of Fame. None is close. Only one won more than 200 games (Kevin Brown). Rounding out the top five -- Dwight Gooden (194 wins), Bill Gullickson, Moore and Benes...

More than 75 percent of those 102 were wasted picks. Yet absolutely every one was hailed as a future star.

You can't screw up top-five draft picks, especially if you're a team in the Pirates' situation. Someone like Stephen Strasburg might just be an exception to any sort of rule you'd like to make up about not drafting pitchers that early, and maybe David Price was too. But I don't think Crow or Green are, even though the crop of position players in this year's draft aren't that great. Pitchers are far more risky than position players, and so often the best strategy is to take a hitter in the first round and grab a bunch of live arms later.

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Strasburg

BtBS compares Strasburg to Kris Benson in an article about the 1996 draft. Nothing too in depth at the article but a bit interesting.

http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2009/5/11/871779/a-look-back-at-the-1st-round-of

I made most of my life decisions at a Foghat concert... I stand by them.

by Chester J Lampwick on May 12, 2009 5:34 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

As far as #1 overall picks go...

…Benson really wasn’t that bad for us. Everybody wants a Griffey or an A-Rod with the first pick, and that’s certainly a great outcome if you can get it, but for every superstar at #1 there’s a Brien Taylor or a Shawn Abner or a Bryan Bullington.

by Vlad on May 13, 2009 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I hope we can get a top-notch position player

with the #4 pick. But at the very least, I expect this front office to take the best player.

by patthatt on May 12, 2009 5:36 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Excellent points.

If Dwight Gooden had laid off the drugs, he might have had a Hall of Fame career. And who knows what would have happened if Dusty Baker didn’t destroy Mark Prior’s arm and shoulder by having him throw 110+ pitches every 5 days in 2003. There have certainly been some great pitchers whose careers ended too soon coming from early in the first round. However, I’d much rather take pitchers in the last first round, 2nd and 3rd rounds of the draft than with a pick early in the first round. Just not comfortable with it anymore. Blame Littlefield for that…

by IAPiratesFan on May 12, 2009 5:44 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Tate

I’ve read atleast 3 mock drafts that have the Pirates taking Donovan Tate at #4.

by gorillakilla34 on May 12, 2009 6:09 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

this helps explain the Pirates' fascination with Virgil Vasquez ...

… Greg Smith drafted him in 2003.

looking at minorleagueball.com’s latest(?) mock draft, 8 of the top 9 are pitchers. I’m betting the Bucs select one of them (probably not Schleppers or Crow, and of course Strasburg won’t be available)… don’t blow it, Greg!

by humbucker on May 12, 2009 6:36 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I would have no problem with us picking Crow

especially if Ackley is off the board by then. I think Crow is the 2nd best pitching prospect in this draft. From the look of things, drafting a position player #4 would be a major reach. I think we’ve got to go with best talent available here, which will hopefully be Crow and not Scheppers.

by houksyndrome on May 13, 2009 12:45 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

This was a little sad to read today, if not unsurprising…

Ackley went 2-for-4 with his 16th home run of the year Sunday, while playing center field for the second straight game. The left-handed-hitting, right-handed-throwing Ackley simply doesn’t have any questions to answer.

“I’d be surprised if he was not their top target,” said one scout familiar with the thinking of Seattle Mariners GM Jack Zduriencik. “And San Diego sitting there at three, it’d shake up the draft if he [Ackley] fell to four.”

by thegreatchris on May 13, 2009 1:03 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I know. Ever since I found out about Strasburg and (to a lesser extent) Ackley

I have been thinking “Gosh, why couldn’t we have just sucked a little bit more last season?” Why couldn’t we have had Nate McLouth bat right handed for a couple weeks or something? Just so we could have that top pick. Lately I have started to wonder if this is the reason we have JR as our manager, so that we will lose more games and thus be able to draft better talent. Build up our core and when we’re ready to compete go hire LaRussa or something.

by houksyndrome on May 13, 2009 4:09 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

So what you are saying is that

what the Pirates need most now is someone like JR only a little bit worse.

by WestCoastBuc on May 13, 2009 8:48 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Need to look at the future of SS

With Wilson in his walk year, Bixler showing absolutely no signs of being MLB worthy, and even less behind him, the pick needs to be Grant Green, the USC SS.

by Vaffanculo on May 13, 2009 10:36 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

"Picking for need" doesn't work at all in MLB.

Green is probably 2-3 years away from being ready to take over at SS in the majors, so a team with a hole there would need to find some kind of temporary solution anyway.

It’d also be a bad idea for us because we went fairly SS-heavy in last year’s draft, and now have at least four bona-fide SS prospects in the low minors (Friday, Mercer, D’Arnaud, and the injured Cunningham). Our biggest current system voids are pitchers, catchers, and power bats of all kinds.

Green is a plausible pick for the slot, but we need to take the BPA when we’re on the clock if we want to be serious about rebuilding.

by Vlad on May 13, 2009 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Does Cunningham project to SS?

I thought he was more of a 3B but I’m usually wrong about these things.

by hisjazziness on May 13, 2009 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

They had been talking about moving him to 2B...

…due to the organization’s depth at SS. I don’t think anything had been decided at the time of his re-injury, though.

by Vlad on May 13, 2009 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think the writeup is a little bit charitable toward Smith.

He’s getting credit for taking guys who slipped even when those guys don’t ultimately become useful ML players. That reminds me of the annual NFL draft grades given to a team like the Bengals, who always score well with the pundits because they often take the guy who’s listed as the best player available in the pre-draft guides. Unfortunately for Cincy, those guys are often dropping because they have character concerns or other significant flaws, and as such they turn into busts or problems once they actually start playing games.

I’m all for the opportunistic vulturing of good players, but it just seems backwards to me to castigate a scouting director for “reaching” on a guy who ultimately turns into a good pro, or to praise him for getting good value on a guy who craps out.

by Vlad on May 13, 2009 10:38 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

A different topic

SI had an article about the five best and worse owners. In my opinion, they clearly forgot Mr. Nutting. He got hosed, as he should have been named the second worst.

The oversight from SI could have been due to the fact that “Mr. Nutting plays on a small-market team.”

by Pirate in Montana on May 13, 2009 12:35 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Link:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/baseball/mlb/05/08/mlb.owners/index.html

Pretty uncontroversial stuff, I’d say they got both the lists basically right. I might flip some of the order though.

With regards to Bob Nutting, he has only been principle owner since 2007 during which time he fired Littlefield and hired FC/NH, invested money in the draft, and built an awesome new DR facility. . . . .

I made most of my life decisions at a Foghat concert... I stand by them.

by Chester J Lampwick on May 13, 2009 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mr. Nutting

Chester:

I am o.k. with your opinion, even if it’s different than mine. The one thing I would like to say at this time is that I view the term “principal owner” as a misconception or an easy way out of the things Mr. Nutting and his ownership have done to the Pirates. The way I see it, his actions as a cheap owner go way back before 2007. The current state of the team is directly linked to Mr. Nutting.

Can you tell that I have an issue with the guy? I am sorry if I am coming out too strong on this.

by Pirate in Montana on May 13, 2009 2:22 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I don’t mind if you don’t like the guy and it is debatable about how much control over the team he had before becoming principle owner. I really don’t think he had that much power though just based on how much the focus of the team has changed since he became principle owner. But I guess none of us know for sure and none of us know whether or not he will spend money when the time comes.

I made most of my life decisions at a Foghat concert... I stand by them.

by Chester J Lampwick on May 13, 2009 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I can live with that! Thanks, Chester.

by Pirate in Montana on May 13, 2009 4:24 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

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