Can Andy LaRoche play 2nd Base?
With the logjam at 3B with Andy LaRoche, Neil Walker, and Pedro Alvarez... and a great probability that Freddy Sanchez will be moved in the next month...What are the chances of the Pirates moving Andy to 2B and bringing up Neil Walker and let him play 3B?
I think this makes the most sense out of all the situations instead of moving Neil to another position like Shortstop which i don't think he can play... I do believe Andy played some 2nd Base in the dodgers system coming up through... and his numbers right now are more in line with a 2nd Baseman with about a 300. AVG and only 2 HRs.....What do you guys think?
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That's quite a logjam there
An A-ball windmill hitting .240, a guy repeating AAA hitting .240, and he’s hurt, and Laroche. My God when will the way be clear for one of the first two?
You can throw Neil Walker’s name out. Until he starts hitting with some consistency at the Triple-A level and show some more power, he won’t come close to sniffing the big leagues. He may already be a bust. Honestly, Pedro Alvarez may be closer to the big leagues than Walker is, and Pedro is still in Single-A ball! I still think the Pirates will end up moving Pedro to 1B, but if Andy doesn’t start showing more power, they could keep Pedro at third. Andy’s hitting has been great this year, but 2 HRs from your 3B isn’t going to cut it. We’ll see what happens.
but
if your third baseman has a high abtting average, homers won’t matter
Sporting 4 Sports
by 4sportathlete on Jun 12, 2009 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Andy’s showing strong gap power and a ridiculous line drive rate. That usually ends up turning into home run power.
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by Sixty Feet, Six Inches on Jun 13, 2009 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
To answer the question that was posed...
…LaRoche might or might not be tolerable, depending on exactly how bad of defense there you’re willing to tolerate. He’s been basically a neutral defender at 3B thus far, and for a typical player, that’d translate to something in the neighborhood of a -10 glove at 2B (Caveat: Big error bar on that estimate. It’s a median result – you could see anything from a neutral outcome to a -20 or worse for any one individual player making the switch, without it being too surprising.)
Personally, I don’t think he looks or moves like a 2B, so I’m skeptical about it as an alternative, and I agree with the prior two posters that there really isn’t any “logjam” until Walker proves that he can hit and/or Alvarez proves that he can field.
yea i know walker hasn’t hit for average… but he has hit for some power… thats one thing this team lacks…whats the big deal about giving him a chance up here at the show…whats the worst that will happen? lose? you never know what we got until you give him a chance… and who knows he might be stressing so much to get to the bigs that its affected his performance… and he might be more comfortable in the bigs playing in pittsburgh were his family is. the avg is my only concern but he does have 7 HRs this year and has been injured…thats just the same amount as Ad. LaRoche or anyone on the major league roster so far… im just saying if you keep giving Brandon Moss a chance why not give Walker a chance?
Walker is still only 22 years old, I believe. Not every prospect is Andrew McCutchen and ready to be called up at that age. I think Walker will be fine, but he needs to show some consistency. The power is there, but the average and discipline aren’t, and you can’t get by with raw power at the ML level.
Moss, on the other hand, is older than Walker and has nothing to prove in AAA. The analogy isn’t really apt, because while Moss is the best available option at right (besides maybe Delwyn Young), Walker is clearly not the best option at 3B. That’s Andy LaRoche, and will remain so until Walker can prove his worth in AAA.
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by Sixty Feet, Six Inches on Jun 13, 2009 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions
The big deal:
1) He’s not ready to be a productive hitter in the majors, so it’s almost a foregone conclusion that he’d fail.
2) Promoting him before he’s ready will damage his already slim (and diminishing) chances of becoming a productive hitter down the road.
3) Promoting him and giving him regular playing time will either involve benching LaRoche, one of our most productive hitters so far, or benching Sanchez (when it already generates an avalanche of hitching and pissing and whining and moaning whenever he’s out of the lineup for even one day).
4) Promoting players who haven’t earned the promotion makes it harder to enforce discipline at AAA and make players work on the areas of the game that they need to improve.
Also, the team does not particularly need home runs. It needs offense, period. While home runs are a good source of offense, they are not the only source, and if you trade thirty runs’ worth of walks, doubles, and triples for fifteen runs’ worth of home runs, you’re hurting your offense, not helping it.
If anything
we probably are trading Snachez by the deadline. He might be able t play 2nd. Alverez might be moved to 1st, but as long as A LaRoche is on the team, he and Alvarez are going to battle it out. Neil Walker needs to start hitting or try to get a team that wants a “prospect” to give us a prospect or a ok veteran that is cheap
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I agree with the original poster. Andy is gonna need to play 2nd base or start hitting home runs. I think the former is more likely and we should give Walker a chance, although maybe not right now. In September we might as well call up Walker, especially if Pedro starts hitting. That way we figure out if Walker has the chance to amount to anything in the bigs, we will be able to move up Pedro to double AA or higher and see where hes gonna play defensively and move over Laroche for a month to see if he has any potential at 2nd. If Andy does, then the offseason can be dedicated to moving him to 2nd and crossing our fingers and hoping Walker develops and Pedro excels. We may be able to play Pedro and Walker at the corners and Andy at 2nd. Thats a young solid core to go along with McCutchen and we can see how Gorkys, Tabata, and even Moss develop. Then we pray Sanchez develops to replace Doumit.
Ultimately we can move Adam, Jack, Freddy and Ryan.. find someone to play SS and fill out our rotation and bullpen and compete for a playoff spot in 3+ years.
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Jun 13, 2009 12:25 AM EDT reply actions
Promoting Walker in September will tell you nothing.
If promoted this year, he’ll flop, because guys who are getting stomped at AAA generally do even worse when they have to face better competition in the majors. And him flopping this year will only tell us that he isn’t ready right now, which we already know. It won’t tell us anything about his ability or inability to make adjustments in the minors in 2010 or 2011, which are what will make or break his career.
"Can Andy LaRoche play 2nd Base? "
The chances are slim and none, and slim just left town.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
I realize this is a late entry but...
…if you go back in the Pirates archive when we got L’il Luigi, there was at least one article indicating that he’d be moved to second. The story noted that he had played seven or so minor league games at second last season. At that time, the thought was that Freddy would not return to his batting title ways.
Andy did play some games at 2nd in the minors, but only 8. That’s not really good enough. He also played 7 games at each corner outfield position, but I wouldn’t consider moving him to either of those places.
At any rate, his bat as of RIGHT NOW profiles better as a second baseman, but like I said earlier, he’s flashing good gap and line drive power, which usually becomes home run power for young players. He probably will never be a 35 homer guy, but 20-25 per year in coming seasons isn’t out of the question. If he keeps hitting for plenty of extra bases like he’s doing, those 10 extra homers won’t be missed as much as one would think. Especially with the plate discipline he’s shown.
I always compare Andy LaRoche to Kevin Youkilis. Neither of them are typical corner infielders. Up until last year, Youkilis never even scratched the surface of 30 homers, but he was still incredibly valuable because of his high walk rate and extra base power. That’s the same kind of player Andy LaRoche is right now. He, too, will probably develop some decent home run pop in coming years, making him a poor man’s Youkilis, which certainly isn’t a bad thing to have.
At any rate, Andy makes an average defensive third baseman, but I don’t think he’d do so well at second. I’d rather see Walker move there if he can make it to the bigs, because I think he has better defensive ability than Andy. Alvarez I’m not worried about at all. He’s a 3B prospect the same way Jim Thome was.
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by Sixty Feet, Six Inches on Jun 13, 2009 12:56 PM EDT reply actions
Yes
I agree Andy should move to second when Alvarez gets the call. Plus, I’d put Moss at first when Adam is traded. We need a power bat for the outfield. Tabata could be that guy. But, I think I would trade somebody for a Jeremy Hermida. An outfield with Tabata in Left, McCutchen in Center and possibly Hermida if traded. I’d live that. An infield with Moss at First, Andy at Second, I’d resign Freddy at Shortstop or put Delwyn Young there, Alvarez at Third. Now if Walker improves hitting more consistently then move him to Third, he plays great D. Put Alvarez in the outfield. It was done with Ryan Braun. An outfield with Tabata Mcutchen, and Alvarez. Now, this is if they can’t get a power bat for the outfield. And Walker doesn’t hit consistently. My future lineup: CF-McCutchen, SS-Young, C-Doumit, RF-Alvarez, LF-Tabata, 2B- LaRoche, 1B-Moss, 3B-Walker. Starting Rotation Lincoln, Duke, Ohlendorf, Maholm and Gorzelanny. Bullpen: Closer-Matt Capps, Craig Hansen, Donald Veal, Evan Meek, Sean Burnett, Michael Dubee, Daniel Moskos and Jesse Chavez. Bench would include Eric Hinske, Craig Monroe, Ramon Vazquez, Nyjer Morgan and Jason Jaramillo as the Backup Catcher, he’s proven he deserves the chance. With top ten prospects including,Gorkys Hernandez, Robbie Grossman, Jarek Cunningham, Quinton Miller, Bryan Morris, Chase D’Anuard, Jordy Mercer, Jeff Locke, Bryan Morris and Tony Sanchez. Now, if Snell gets traded to Colorado I may have to change this, if the prospects or players are ready. Plus, Adam LaRoche, Jack Wilson, Freddy Sanchez, John Grabow and Tyler Yates get traded. If management heads in this direction we could talk about the real “City of Champions”. At least it would feel more complete with Buccos winning.
Alvarez isn't a real third baseman.
The guy’s a first base prospect. The fact that management is playing him at 3B in high-A means nothing other than that they’re smart enough to play him at his most difficult defensive position for as long as possible to improve his skills in the field.
However, he’s not athletic enough to play third in the Majors, and he’s definitely not athletic enough to play any OF position in PNC. Ryan Braun he is not. More like Jim Thome, who you will recall moved to first before he became the White Sox DH.
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by Sixty Feet, Six Inches on Jun 16, 2009 2:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Also, Delwyn Young would be a disaster at SS. You need at least a solid glove there. Young doesn’t provide anything but the skills of a pinch hitter. He would likely cost us more runs defensively as a SS than his bat would produce.
As for your rotation, it’s missing Charlie Morton and assumes Duke won’t be traded (which is nothing more than a gut feeling on my part.) I doubt if Gorzelanny is ever a successful ML starter again…Jim Tracy did his best to ruin his arm.
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by Sixty Feet, Six Inches on Jun 16, 2009 3:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Young at short? My eyes are bleeding!
I don’t think he can even handle second. To put him at short… Duke would give up seven or eight straight hits, then have a stroke and die on the mound.
And as 6F6I says, Alvarez is a 1B in training.
yea Gorzelanny is too old already to ever be a starter again he could be a good long relief pitcher or setup man… and there is no way Young can play shortstop id rather take my chance and put Andy or Neil there first before young… the pirates need to aquire a good young talented shortstop and if that means packaging Adam LaRoche, Grabow, and Freddy Sanchez to get a Brandon Wood and some prospects from the Angels thats what we need to do.

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