News Roundup: Pirates Considering Trading Snell?
by Charlie Wilmoth on Jun 15, 2009 2:55 PM EDT
Email
Print-P- John Perrotto reports the Rockies are the "most likely" team to trade for Ian Snell. Beyond a chuckle at the possibility that Jim Tracy has some input into what players the Rockies will acquire (and seriously, how does Tracy continue to convince organizations that he knows what he's doing? Hypnotism?), I'm not sure what to make of this. Trading Snell would be selling low, which is only wise if you're convinced you haven't reached bottom yet. According to Perrotto, "some in the organization" are ready to just dump Snell and his contract. Snell has been awful for two years running and probably isn't the type to listen to coaching, but I'd be inclined to give him every opportunity to shape up before shipping him out, since the money (about $6 million for the rest of this year and next) really isn't much. I think I might breathe a sigh of relief if he left, though.
-P- I'm going to go out on a limb and say it's time to stop pretending Danny Moskos can be a starter. It's been a few weeks since he's had a truly awful start, but still: 26 strikeouts and 25 walks in 64 innings? That's atrocious. He's 23. Put him in the bullpen.
-P- I have little to add to the Post-Gazette's Top 10 prospects list, which is pretty good. I'll probably post a longer list of my own after the draft pick signing deadline. Just a couple quibbles with a couple of the picks at the bottom, though: at this point, I'd probably leave Neil Walker out of my top ten. He's now had a full season and a half in which he's been downright terrible, and at his age he really needs to be performing. He'll have to improve a great deal to have even a palatable OBP in the majors, and he's shown few signs of improvement since 2007.
Also, the more I think about it the more I think Calvin Anderson isn't a prospect. An interesting minor leaguer, yes. A prospect, no. He's striking out five times as often as he walks, and his OPS has decreased each month, probably as pitchers have figured out they don't have to throw him anything in the zone.
In place of Walker and Anderson (who were both on the periphery of the Post-Gazette list anyway), I'd submit Ronald Uviedo and Rudy Owens for consideration. Both have struck out nearly a batter an inning as starters at age-appropriate levels. Owens, especially, has quietly been very consistent.
-P- Someone mentioned the performances of the Domincan and Venezeulan Pirates teams the other day. I'm reluctant to comment much on these teams, both because they've played only a handful of games and because it's just about impossible to interpret DSL and VSL stats because the players are so far from the majors. Whether a 17-year-old like Roberto Espinoza can make it to the big leagues is a question I couldn't even begin to answer without the help of a scout.There have been a bunch of interesting performances, though, particularly on the VSL team.
149 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
"According to Perrotto, "some in the organization" are ready to just dump the contract."
I really want to believe the new management is not just about money and being cheap. But they make it hard sometimes…
To be fair to the Pirates, the article does say that some in the organization want to dump Snell AND his contract, which is a little different. My post is now updated to reflect that.
by Charlie Wilmoth on Jun 15, 2009 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions
It tastes too much like the Bucs dumping Ollie Perez (who went on to have 2 very good seasons), or even the Rays with Edwin Jackson. Those two are slightly younger and were slightly better talents than Snell, but it is the same principle. You can’t tell me the 5th starter (at best) parade of Karstens, Ohlendorf, and Charlie Morton is more talented. If they can get a fair return for Snell like with McLouth or Nady, then fine. But sorry if I cringe at the thought of the words “contract dump”…
Fair return?
Unfortunately, I think that with the way Snell has been pitching lately, a “fair” return would probably be disappointing to most people here. Even if Snell has the potential to return to the pitcher that he was in 2006, people are only going to buy that potential at a substantial discount until he starts showing it this year.
Exactly why they shouldn’t deal him now, since they can only get a lousy return. They should be on the phones about Duke and/or Maholm, if anyone. And it isn’t completely Snell’s fault that management has tried to ruin his arm with 130+ pitch outings since he was brought on.
Move Snell to the 'pen?
If Morton were healthy, I’d say replace Snell with Morton and put Snell in the bullpen. Snell has good stuff, so maybe he’d make a good set up guy. Though, I wouldn’t want to be there for the temper tantrum when he gets the news of being moved to the ’pen.
by Chad Bahamas on Jun 15, 2009 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I also think that
Snell doesn’t have the mental makeup to become a reliever at this stage of the game.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Jun 15, 2009 9:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Didn’t Snell work mostly as a reliever in the minors and only get moved to starter because of good relief numbers and lack of pitching depth? I think he’d be a great bullpen pitcher, honestly.
www.sixtyftsixin.com
by Sixty Feet, Six Inches on Jun 15, 2009 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Nope, he was a starter from day one. There was always a lot of talk about moving him to relief because he was shorter than the Littlefield/Creech ideal of a starting pitcher, but he had great stamina and three MLB-quality pitches.
Hm..
For what it’s worth, MVP ‘05 (yes, I’m going to a video game) has him as a reliever in AAA.
True Blue Jazz
Bucco Ball
I'm on Twitter
RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
When he first came up to the majors in 2004 and 2005, they used him as a reliever to ease him in. (He got lit up.)
Ah
so it didn’t work successfully. That’s not good. Maybe it’d work better now?
I’m not certain if anyone knows… how does he normally do the first time through the opposing line-up?
True Blue Jazz
Bucco Ball
I'm on Twitter
RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
That actually seems to be when he gives up the most runs. Through the 1st 3 innings.
So you think 25 percent of the country is retarded!? Yea, totally. Atleast 25 percent. Well lets do a sample. There are 4 of us and you're retarded. Thats 25 percent. -South Park; Mystery of the Urinal Deuce.
by gorillakilla34 on Jun 16, 2009 8:58 AM EDT up reply actions
In that case
I’m not sure reliever works.
True Blue Jazz
Bucco Ball
I'm on Twitter
RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
ddff22
I agree for the same two reasons as you stated: (1) trading Snell at his current low point would not obtain any quality players in return; and (2) we have nothing better with which to replace him unlike McCutchen when we traded McLouth. I would strongly advocate keeping Snell for the rest of the year or until he has several excellent back-to-back-to-back starts. It would make much more sense to trade Duke or Maholm who are performing exceptionally well.
by Illinois Pirate Fan on Jun 15, 2009 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I think Snell would make a good setup man, possibly a closer. He has passed his shelf life as a starter.
by Some Fat Guy in LA on Jun 15, 2009 9:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Deal Snell
I’m really tired of his ego and lack of accountability after starts. Every start it’s someone else’s fault. The last start he even called out JR. I know a lot on here aren’t high on JR but that is something that cannot be tolerated. I would love to see a deal with the Rockies. Every 5th day we could witness Snell and Tracy trying to wrestle one another underneath the bus.
by BattlinBucs on Jun 15, 2009 4:07 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Trading Snell
In my view, Snell is not likely to do anything but occasionally give you a good start, which will then cause you to endure 6 more bad ones. Add to that his failure to take responsibility for bad outings. He is the right-handed version of O. Perez – great arm and no head.
I see nothing wrong with wanting to dump his contract. I don’t think the Pirates should be constrained by what a guy makes if they want to trade him. Those folks who want to accuse Nutting & Co. of sucking money out and not caring about winning are always going to spin moves as salary dumps. Snell has had his chance to prove he belongs. I’ll bet we have a few other pitchers who can go 1-7 with a 5.00 ERA that don’t cost 6 million.
Worth remembering:
The Rockies put in a big push for Snell at the deadline last year. They like him at least a little bit, even without Tracy’s input.
I am not going to rip the club for its inability to land a starter at the trading deadline. No team did. Only four were traded in July: CC Sabathia, Rich Harden, Joe Blanton and Randy Wolf. The Rockies’ best trade possibility was for Ian Snell. But when the Pirates asked for Franklin Morales to be included in the deal along with Esmil Rogers and Chris Nelson, Colorado understandably balked. -Troy E. Renck, The Denver Post
In case any of the same players would be included in a deal now:
*Morales is a power lefty starter. Currently 23, killer stuff, significant command/control issues. He’s missed most of 2009 with a strained muscle in his shoulder. Mid-90s FB, two curves (one big, one little).
*Rogers is a righty starter. 23 years old, came into the season as Colorado’s #7 prospect per BA. Currently pitching VERY well at AA Tulsa. Low-90s FB, very good curve, developmental changeup. He’s actually doing quite well on command/control for a guy who relies on the curve, which is maybe the hardest non-knuck pitch to consistently throw for strikes.
*Nelson is a righty shortstop prospect. Former first-round pick (he’s actually the guy we were targeting the year we chose Walker, but he went at 9 and our pick was 11), 23 this year. Good glove, inconsistent bat year to year as he’s come up. Runs well, strong arm, line drive power when on his game. Currently having a good (but not great) season as a level repeater at AA.
I think Ian burned his last bridge
Let’s see, Friday night, Snell gives up a 2 out double in the 6th to a .220 hitter.
Russell orders Snell to walk the SS, who has an .800 OPS, to get to the pitcher.
The pitcher, a 20 YO rookie, who’s had his first 2 AB’s ever of his major league life that night, singles to right on a 2-0 count, and bags his 2nd RBI.
After the game, Snell blames JR for his situation. From the PPG
Snell took issue with the Pirates intentionally walking .287-hitting shortstop Ramon Santiago to get to Porcello in the second instance. Immediately upon returning to the dugout after that inning, he slammed his fist into a wall.
“I was a little upset that we walked the guy to get to the pitcher,” Snell said. “I didn’t see any reason to do that, but … oh, well, then, he got a hit. Karma.”
I have accused JR of sleeping on the bench, using plug-in lineups (if it’s a LH SP, Monroe and Diaz must start — if not, never), not being able to tell a good player from a bad player, and basically being a bad bad man. But I don’t work for him.
Snell can’t be allowed to publicly call out his manager (and be dead wrong, btw). Guy’s gotta go.
Snell is right; the intentional walk is hugely overused, unless the hitter is close to Pujols/A-Rod/Barry Bonds quality. Maybe if the pitcher has a large track record of being a lousy hitter then it is OK, but Porcello is 2 years out of high school where he probably was a two-way star.
There should be a fraction as many IBBs as there currently are in the majors. Remember how dumb the Braves looked when they gave Adam first for free more than once in the series?
Hey, I love Procello
PBC could have had him instead of Moskos in 2007, but DL was probably scared of anyone represented by Scott Boras. (Hard to believe someone drafted in same round as Moskos is already pitching lights out in the ML.)
But JR did more than just play percentages here. If Snell is a major league pitcher, instead of a major league pitcher who’s a total head case, he never gives up 2 hits to a 20 YO pitcher who hasn’t had a ML at bat in his life.
GameDay consistently showed Snell pitching Porcello on the outside 1/2 of the plate in his first AB. In his 3rd AB, Snell grooved one when he got down 2-0 on the count.
This ain’t Ken Brett or Jason Marquis batting. I would bet Porcello doesn’t get another RBI this year.
And this ain’t giving an IBB to Rally Killer to get to Luigi — a stupid move.
But even if Snell were right (and he ain’t), you don’t show up the manager and expect to have any kind of future. Snell might as well demand a trade, or call up Milton Bradley for advice.
On a pleasant note, Yahoo Sports shows Cutch as one of 3 “Who’s Hot” batters on its MLB home page.
Speaking of Jim Tracy
The Rockies are 13-4 since he took over.
Is this another example of NH and company being poor talent evaluators?
: )
I made most of my life decisions at a Foghat concert... I stand by them.
by Chester J Lampwick on Jun 15, 2009 5:00 PM EDT reply actions
No. It’s called having players. They have Helton and Hawpe, two of the league’s best hitters. Not to mention Ian Stewart has been tearing it up lately. Also, Iannetta and Tulowitzki have been terrible so far this year so they will eventually get going. Having said that, I don’t think the Rockies will keep this up simply because their pitching isn’t good enough and the offense, with the exception of Helton and Hawpe, will eventually cool off. But they definitely have hitters in their lineup, and they are all clicking at the same time.
This is unfair
The Rockies were 18-28 pre-Tracy. No doubt that Tracy was the wrong manager for the Pirates, That does not make him the incompetent that some here want to porrtray. His was miscast in a very bad situation.
Correct
It’s not failing to win with the Pirates that makes him incompetent. It’s his preference for Nyjer Morgan over McLouth, Paulino over Doumit, and Cesar Izturis over Jack Wilson that makes him incompetent.
I am SO glad you are back, WTM.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Jun 15, 2009 9:33 PM EDT up reply actions
And a love for squeeze plays in a situation where no manager in their right mind would call them. Don’t forget that.
www.sixtyftsixin.com
by Sixty Feet, Six Inches on Jun 15, 2009 9:59 PM EDT up reply actions
And a strange desire
to recreate the 2004 Los Angeles Dodgers roster on whatever team he manages.
by WstCstBucco on Jun 15, 2009 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions
What Pirate fan didn’t want more Jose Hernandez? Izturis was quite the stud too.
by BattlinBucs on Jun 15, 2009 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions
HA!
You just made my night, sir.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Jun 15, 2009 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Anytime I can help. Just thinking back to that time just makes me sick. That was our franchise. Looking back there is no doubt we were so terrible. McClatchy, Littlefield, and Tracy. That will be the horror story I will tell my kids someday around a campfire.
“…and then we traded for Matt Morris…”
by BattlinBucs on Jun 15, 2009 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions
and squeeze a little lemon juice onnit, couldja?
Even more painful than 1,000 paper cuts.
Ah, yes, I remember it well…
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Jun 15, 2009 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess it’s why I don’t have a problem with what our new FO is doing. I haven’t seen any moves that made me absolutely hate the franchise. They may not being popular moves but I can see what they are doing. Everytime you would think up a worse case scenario, Littlefield would one up you and pull something you didn’t know was possible
by BattlinBucs on Jun 15, 2009 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Is it true that if you say “Matt Morris” fast four times in a row, he comes through the mirror with a mouthful of bees and kills you with his hook (not his curveball – that’s totally ineffective)?
by WstCstBucco on Jun 15, 2009 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Number 2 is more scary. Number 1 could only kill me once. Number 2 can kill repeatedly kill an entire team
by BattlinBucs on Jun 15, 2009 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions
“Matt Morris? Who’s he?”
“Son, let me tell you something about Matt Morris. Matt Morris was once a successful starting pitcher. We traded for him after he stopped being that.”
www.sixtyftsixin.com
by Sixty Feet, Six Inches on Jun 16, 2009 2:38 AM EDT up reply actions
The Rockies have shown the ability to get hot before
they made the WS after catching fire to end a season… and then fell right off again.
Maybe it’s the players?
True Blue Jazz
Bucco Ball
I'm on Twitter
RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
Unrelated but kind of funny......
I went to the gloves for kids charity event at Dick’s Sporting Goods in Robinson last Saturday. They were waiting for Andy LaRoche and Snell to show up to start boo Andy when he showed up for being late. My brother-in-law asked where Snell was and was just told he wasn’t answering his phone. Andy showed up, everyone jokingly booed him, and the last hour started without Snell.
Maybe it was just an Ian being Ian move but when my wife and I were walking out we just kind of half jokingly said maybe he got traded. Especially because he was always very nice when it came to signing autographs and talking to fans before the games but didn’t show at a charity event.
Adam LaRoche’s son was going wild running around the store and a few Dick’s employees were assigned the task of playing with him. I got to meet Tony Plush and Cutch. Nyjer is a great dude. I hope we can keep him around as our mascot after our young outfield prospects come up. They can dress him up like a pirate and have him shoot hotdogs and t-shirts into the crowd.
So you think 25 percent of the country is retarded!? Yea, totally. Atleast 25 percent. Well lets do a sample. There are 4 of us and you're retarded. Thats 25 percent. -South Park; Mystery of the Urinal Deuce.
3rd sentence 1st paragraph should be:
Jack Wilson was going around telling everyone to boo Andy when he showed up for being late.
Also, I met Chavez and Karstens. Chavez didn’t say much. Karstens talked for a minute.
Me: high Jeff. How’s things going?
Karsty: Good man. We’re just trying to get to .500
Me: It’d be nice if you guys do better than that. If the staff keeps pitching good…..
Karsty: We’re just shootin for .500 right now.
Me: Well one step at a time, i guess. Good luck Jeff.
So you think 25 percent of the country is retarded!? Yea, totally. Atleast 25 percent. Well lets do a sample. There are 4 of us and you're retarded. Thats 25 percent. -South Park; Mystery of the Urinal Deuce.
by gorillakilla34 on Jun 15, 2009 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess I didnt expect the players to care that much about just getting to .500. Do you think that is just something that they say to the fans to try to appease them? I mean, I’m sure they think about it but surely in their minds that is not the ultimate goal. I know from being on bad teams that you always think you have a chance even if you know that you are overmatched with the teams you are trying to catch. I just think its kinda odd that players would speak of .500 as the goal.
Yea. I thought the same thing
I just asked him how things were going and he responded we’re trying to get to .500. Not I’m doing good or anything like that. I definetly thought it was something he decided he wanted to say before the thing started because of all the ignorant casual fans there and their obsession of a .500 record. Hell, I had to tell everyone in line around me who each player was….
So you think 25 percent of the country is retarded!? Yea, totally. Atleast 25 percent. Well lets do a sample. There are 4 of us and you're retarded. Thats 25 percent. -South Park; Mystery of the Urinal Deuce.
by gorillakilla34 on Jun 16, 2009 9:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Snell
I’d deal him.
Yeah… not much else to say.
True Blue Jazz
Bucco Ball
I'm on Twitter
RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
I don’t care if we don’t get anything back for him! Heck, I’d be fine if they just released him. He is not a pitcher; he’s a thrower. He doesn’t know where the ball is going. He’s terrible. And everybody is exactly right about him trying to find someone other than himself to blame every start. He’s got an attitude and I can only assume that he is a cancer in the clubhouse. He is an automatic loss every time out right now. Walking everybody, giving up RBI hits to American League pitchers, terrible efficiency (100+ pitches by the fifth inning every time out). He’s just not good. I hope the Rockies trade for him. I’d take anybody to see Snell leave town.
Actually, now that I think about it, Ian Snell for Seth Smith would be perfect. Smith is used strictly for pinch hitting purposes in Colorado, and he is a good hitter. We have a non-productive RF and Smith could start in RF for us. I’m sure the Pirates will probably look for some prospects from the Rockies in return in continuing to add depth to the farm system, but I think Snell for Smith would make all the sense in the world. I don’t know if the Rockies would be willing to give up a valuable piece of their bench and maybe asking for Smith in return is a bit much, but what do ya’ll think? Either way, I really don’t care who we get back. Just get Snell out!
I don't see them
giving up on Moss right now. I could be wrong, but they seem willing to at least let him try and figure it out.
True Blue Jazz
Bucco Ball
I'm on Twitter
RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
"I don't care if we don't get anything back for him!"
That, right there, is why I’m eternally grateful that you’re just a random fan, and not a person in a position of responsibility with the team.
So you would be upset if we just cut him? I was exaggerating a bit, but if we cut Snell tomorrow and didn’t bother trading him, I wouldn’t lose any sleep. The guy is terrible.
Well…….until he went to whoever claimed him on waivers and improved maybe just due to a change of situation. Then you would be raving about how stupid they were for releasing Snell and not getting anything for him. I’m not a Snell fan, as I’ve mentioned many times, but to just throw a player away who still has value would be stupid.
So you think 25 percent of the country is retarded!? Yea, totally. Atleast 25 percent. Well lets do a sample. There are 4 of us and you're retarded. Thats 25 percent. -South Park; Mystery of the Urinal Deuce.
by gorillakilla34 on Jun 15, 2009 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Resolve this quickly
Snell’s value is quickly declining maybe not for his stuff on the field but off. NH needs to flip him quick, because you cannot have a player on the roster that goes out and challenges his manager. I get irritated when I hear him lay blame to his catchers, but calling out JR is over the line. The Bucs appear to have a pretty solid clubhouse and I would hate to see a rift because some bonehead who can’t hit his spots won’t stop running his mouth.
Agreed
He definetly isn’t helping the team. Hopefully they get a decent return on him. Thats all you can really expect at this point.
Does he have any options left? Maybe a trip to Altoona
So you think 25 percent of the country is retarded!? Yea, totally. Atleast 25 percent. Well lets do a sample. There are 4 of us and you're retarded. Thats 25 percent. -South Park; Mystery of the Urinal Deuce.
by gorillakilla34 on Jun 15, 2009 10:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe a trip to Altoona would be in order if they don’t get any decent offers on him, just to get him away from the ML team. But the again, should he really be around developing players?
So you think 25 percent of the country is retarded!? Yea, totally. Atleast 25 percent. Well lets do a sample. There are 4 of us and you're retarded. Thats 25 percent. -South Park; Mystery of the Urinal Deuce.
by gorillakilla34 on Jun 15, 2009 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I truly think it is time to cut ties with him. Could you imagine his attitude if he was sent down. He would put on a pout show. I would not want him anywhere near our prospects. Of course he’d most likely do the same thing if he was sent to the bullpen. Some people just can’t lose their immature ways. So much talent, it’s sad.
by BattlinBucs on Jun 15, 2009 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Ian's binky:
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Jun 15, 2009 10:22 PM EDT up reply actions
...
I would not want him anywhere near our prospects.
How much damage could he do to 3 players?
True Blue Jazz
Bucco Ball
I'm on Twitter
RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
3 prospects
Exactly. If we only have 3 that means he can start a little gang. Kind of like 6 year olds. Lots of temper tantrums. Now if we had 25 prospects I’ll play the odds and send him down.
by BattlinBucs on Jun 15, 2009 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions
If we had 25 prospects
1- we wouldn’t be the Pirates
2- he’d punch out 20 of them and start his gang anyways
True Blue Jazz
Bucco Ball
I'm on Twitter
RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
I heard Snell punched a wall in the dugout after the Rockies game, and the wall lost.
by WstCstBucco on Jun 15, 2009 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Didn't hear that, but if true...
the “prospects” would stand no chance.
True Blue Jazz
Bucco Ball
I'm on Twitter
RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
Two mistakes tonight. Signing off now in disgust.
But Ian Snell did punch the dugout wall after Porcello’s second hit Friday night. And the wall did lose.
The opposing pitcher had just registered not only his second hit of the night but the second hit of his professional career when Ian Snell walked into the Pirates’ dugout at the end of the sixth inning and vented his frustration.
The right-hander punched the dugout wall, emblematic of a frustrating Friday night.
Altoona News.
by WstCstBucco on Jun 15, 2009 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm sure he's punched the wall
more than just once.
He seems the kind of guy that would punch it after every game, if he could do it without causing too much harm to his hand.
True Blue Jazz
Bucco Ball
I'm on Twitter
RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
I’m sure he aimed for the Gatorade cooler but missed and hit the wall. Damn Diaz
by BattlinBucs on Jun 15, 2009 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm sure he would've kicked the laundry cart
but that’s already been done, so he wouldn’t get mention for that.
True Blue Jazz
Bucco Ball
I'm on Twitter
RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
Oh, for God's sake...
…he’s not a leper, who’s going to infect people. Just a pitcher who’s struggling a bit right now.
Another joke missed by Vlad.
So you think 25 percent of the country is retarded!? Yea, totally. Atleast 25 percent. Well lets do a sample. There are 4 of us and you're retarded. Thats 25 percent. -South Park; Mystery of the Urinal Deuce.
by gorillakilla34 on Jun 16, 2009 9:10 AM EDT up reply actions
Well…..just the “should he be around prospects?” part…….
So you think 25 percent of the country is retarded!? Yea, totally. Atleast 25 percent. Well lets do a sample. There are 4 of us and you're retarded. Thats 25 percent. -South Park; Mystery of the Urinal Deuce.
by gorillakilla34 on Jun 16, 2009 9:24 AM EDT up reply actions
That's an argument...
…that gets presented as a serious point ALL THE TIME in the media. If you meant it as a joke, fine.
I did...
Kind of hard to show sarcasm through text, but yes, sarcastic humor.
So you think 25 percent of the country is retarded!? Yea, totally. Atleast 25 percent. Well lets do a sample. There are 4 of us and you're retarded. Thats 25 percent. -South Park; Mystery of the Urinal Deuce.
by gorillakilla34 on Jun 16, 2009 9:36 AM EDT up reply actions
If we cut him tomorrow...
…we’d give up on any chance to turn him around or trade him for value (when we know for a fact that teams are interested), and we’d replace him with someone who’s not actually any better (i.e. Karstens).
So, yeah, if we tossed a moderately valuable asset over the side of the boat for no good reason, I’d be pissed.
Who do we have that is any better? Karstens? Come on fellas. I’m not ready to give up on Ian just yet.
I'm not all for "giving up"
but if you can exchange him for someone that might work on the team better, I’d bite.
True Blue Jazz
Bucco Ball
I'm on Twitter
RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
Or maybe this could be our chance to acquire a good SS prospect in the Rockies’ system. I don’t know if the Rockies have any good SS prospects, but maybe this is the way to acquiring a replacement if Wilson is traded. So many possibilities.
They have some B-/C+ types...
…but nobody who looks like more than an even bet to grow up into an average starter.
SS Chris Nelson?
AA Texas League’s Tulsa Drillers. Picked 2 picks ahead of Neil Walker in 2004 draft. Nice size for a SS (5’ 11" & 175 lbs), but dropping each year in lists of Rockies prospects. This winter was No. 7 prospect in system. Still only 23.
Currently .280/.355/.477/.832
’
Played for both The Casper Ghosts and The Modesto Nuts (not relevant, but I just love those team names).
.280/.355/.477 is not huge for Tulsa.
Hitter’s park, hitter’s league. Decent season so far, but nothing you’d break out the champagne and party hats over, particularly since he’s repeating the level.
Also, I should clarify that he was ranked as their #7 prospect last winter, not this winter. He fell off their 2009 list after hitting .237/.324/.346 at the same level.
Dammit, Vlad
(puts away noisemakers & party hats, drinks champagne anyway)
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Jun 16, 2009 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Hector Govmez
5th best prospect in Rockies system. Gomez has spent a lot of time on DL (missed all of 2008), but is top SS prospect in Rockies system. Fractured shin, Tommy John surgery in 08. Still a Nut in ’09. Is not as advanced as Brian Friday, but pencils out as better defender. Reportedly swings at anything, and is proud of it (idolizes Vlad Guerrero).
Had 4 HR in April. Still has 4 HR.
278/.310/.472/782
Yeah, and Daniel Mayora
Split time pretty equally between 2B and SS due to system depth, but he’s maybe got enough bat to start.
All of these guys are OK, but none are anybody I’d be hugely excited to get.
I wouldn't be hugely excited either...
but they might be an improvement over what we have in the middle infield above Class A…except for maybe Friday.
Oh, very true.
I just mean that if it’s a choice between an arm who would excite me and a SS who would not, I’d take the arm.
Rumors...
http://www.piratesreport.com/page/blogs.detail/display/134/Trade-winds-are-picking-up-again.html
—> Snell: Colorado mentioned again. So is Texas.
—> Giants have interest in “first baseman Andy LaRoche”
—> BoSox have cursory interest (haven’t they had that for 4 years now?) in Wilson
—> Angels looking at Grabow (they have a ton of prospects in the minors)
True Blue Jazz
Bucco Ball
I'm on Twitter
RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
I read that earlier. I just don’t get why the Bucs are trying to pass off Andy as a 1st baseman, especially when Adam is soon to be gone. : )
I wouldn’t be bothered with Grabow gone for prospects or Snell gone. I doubt the Sox will give up what NH sees as Wilson’s value
Good time to make RP trade with Angels
They just lost Scott Shields for the year.
They have no Plan B for an 8th inning set up man. Only one of his possible replacements on the Angels has an ERA under 4.50, and that’s the unreliable Darren Oliver.
The Angels have no Plan B if they don’t win the AL West either. This is a good time to get the best return from them in a trade. Their minor leagues are very rich.
How about Brandon Wood?
He seems blocked there, and the Angels don’t seem to have any interest in making room for him.
Formerly known as Econolodge
The Giants are loaded with high-upside prospects, probably as much so as any team in the majors. Their GM also has a history of favoring vets over prospects. Maybe the Pirates could pry something loose for Adam.
Yeah
that’s what I assumed.
See, this is why we use Mario & Luigi.
Or everyone reads A. LaRoche and just guesses.
True Blue Jazz
Bucco Ball
I'm on Twitter
RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
All of those make some degree of sense...
…assuming the Adam/Andy substitution detailed above, and all the teams mentioned have enough on the farm to make trades an option. I like this batch of rumors.
Ian Snell - The Poor Man's Oliver Perez
and other miscellaneous thoughts after work.
Trading Paul or Zach would be dumping contract. Unfortunately, either hitters have figured out Snell or he has forgotten how to pitch effectively.
The Angels desparately need relief pitching. They have a slugging 3B and a slugging 2B in their AAA team. Hopefully Grabow would get us one of those two.
The slugging 2B just got called up to the bigs
Angels finally gave up on Howie Kendrick and sent him down to Salt Lake. Poor Kendrick — he went all Warren Morris on the Angels.
They’ve called up Sean Rodriguez, 24, who in 57 games for Salt Lake Bees was hitting .273 with seven doubles, two triples, a Pacific League high 21 HR and 60 RBI.
Rodriguez is backing up Macer Izturis at 2B for now.
If he’s available for Grabow, yoi and double yoi.
Slugging 3B Brandon Wood has been playing SS and 3B since being sent down to the Bees in May. As of Sunday, he’s hitting 351/.439/.877 with eight homers in 57 at-bats for Salt Lake. He’s only 24 but has failed to stick in 3 tries in the ML — last summer the Angels gave him every chance to stay in the “show” but in 150 ABs he couldn’t get over the Mendoza Line.
It’s going to be interesting to see what happens. Obviously, these are just preliminary talks with other teams. I think NH is going to hold out longer than he did with McLouth and listen to offers of all the teams interested (unless, of course, he gets an offer he simply can’t refuse). Let the bidding begin!
Atlanta was motivated that day.
I think NH wouldn’t have got the same deal for McLouth if he’d waited.
Atlanta announced the McLouth trade the same day it released John Smoltz (a true salary dump) — they were clearly looking for some good publicity to calm the waters.
Glavine, not Smoltz
but yeah, they had to do something to off-set the negativity
True Blue Jazz
Bucco Ball
I'm on Twitter
RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
What happened to all of Atlanta's great SP?
“A tip of the cap” to you for the correction, Utes!
by WstCstBucco on Jun 15, 2009 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions
They all got old. Though Smoltz is still good, and I imagine Glavine would be too.
www.sixtyftsixin.com
by Sixty Feet, Six Inches on Jun 15, 2009 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions
150 at-bats
is that enough though? I mean, the Pirates are in a position to give him more time/opportunity (a la Moss) than the Angels, who are in a “win-now” type mode (and will be until Vlad leaves).
As for Rodriguez, based on the few times I’ve seen him in Salt Lake (not often, I’ll admit)… I’d jump on that.
Guys in SLC…
-Wood (& Rodriguez)… both 24
-CF Brad Coon, 1 Matt Brown and 3/2/ss/of/everything Freddy Sandoval (all 27)
-LF Chris Pettit (25)… currently on the DL, I think
They also have Howie Kendrick & Reggie Willits (2 guys who have played for the Angels) and a couple of solid catchers (though we probably don’t need more AAA catchers)
The pitching stats there aren’t very impressive, though I guess it could be because it’s a “launching pad” as WstCstBucco states (though the pitchers last year had no issues). There is a Francisco Rodriguez though… which I think is just interesting because the last Francisco Rodriguez to come through SLC for the Angels turned into the well known K-Rod.
True Blue Jazz
Bucco Ball
I'm on Twitter
RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
(Oh yeah)
I might be partially biased as a Bees fan & SLC guy, but I don’t think it’s too obvious here, is it?
I guess on the SLC guys, it depends how old of a player you want. If 27 is too old, then that changes things.
True Blue Jazz
Bucco Ball
I'm on Twitter
RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
I’ve seen Brandon Wood play several times for the Angels – and never did a kid try so hard to succeed (and fail so miserably).
He still has an incredibly high ceiling as a SS, but I’d be nervous as hell getting him. He could be a lifetime AAAA player.
So I’d take Rodriguez before Wood, but either would be an excellent return for Grabow IMHO.
Kendrick scares me too — I ain’t kidding about Warren Morris disease. And if I were Angels I’d make no trade for a RP and just bring back Jose Arredondo — that guy has totally filthy stuff.
Strangely of your list the only one I would say “no” to is Reggie Willits. He’s a ballplayer, but he’s another OBP-machine OF with absolutely no power. 600 ML AB’s and 0 HRs. The PBC seems to be collecting these guys, and frankly enuff is enuff.
i think Wood and Rodriguez (who got several cups of coffee last year) are hurt by Mike Scoscia’s total inability to know how to treat rookies. He likes to just spot start them, and they never get going. Wood’s 150 AB’s last year was the lone exception.
by WstCstBucco on Jun 15, 2009 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah on Willits
I just figure he’s one of those guys that seems to fit what the team seems to be moving towards.
The problem with Arredondo was “ineffectiveness,” so he’s back in SLC now. There were times last year when he was considered the replacement for K-Rod, so I’m sure he’ll get another shot. They’re still trying to win though… they don’t have time to wait for him to sort things out. They’ll make a trade, and then if Arredondo works it out, they’ll call him up and someone else down.
Kendrick seems like another no-power guy.
True Blue Jazz
Bucco Ball
I'm on Twitter
RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
That's what makes Angel fans crazy
The kid, Arrendondo, gets off to a bad start after an amazing 2008 and gets sent down to Salt Lake. Angel exec’s all take about “accountability.”
Justin Speier stinks on ice for years, and still plays. Angel exec’s all say what a great guy he is in the clubhouse.
by WstCstBucco on Jun 15, 2009 10:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Yep
same thing with leaving Wood in AAA forever, and then only giving him 150 at-bats. I think there was issues with Kendry Morales & Casey Kotchman earlier as well.
True Blue Jazz
Bucco Ball
I'm on Twitter
RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
I'm skepitcal about getting anything particularly good for Grabow.
I think he’s bringing back a C+ guy if we move him, not a straight B. Most teams see him as a situational guy rather than a setup guy, and will want to pay accordingly.
If the Angels decided to be generous, though, I certainly wouldn’t complain.
Last Add re Grabow to Angels
Today’s papers say that Kelvim Escobar, who’s coming off of the DL next Monday, has volunteered to be the set up guy in place of Scott Shields. He’s a free agent at the end of the year, and doesn’t think he has the stamina to start, so his chance of one last long term contract may be tied up in switching to being a RP.
He’s only pitched in one game since 2007, and at 33 sees his future as going back to being a closer.
If the Angels consider this, then their need for a Grabow type drops precipitously.
by WstCstBucco on Jun 16, 2009 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions
I actually don't think it'd affect their need for Grabow at all.
Grabow isn’t a setup guy. He’s a situational lefty. If they wanted Grabow, it’d be because they wanted a third lefty for their pen, behind Fuentes and Oliver.
Yeah
there bullpen is bad and is being held up by AAA guys right now.
True Blue Jazz
Bucco Ball
I'm on Twitter
RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
Yeah, considering the Angels huge need for bullpen help all of a sudden, they probably will want to use them as more than just a situational guy. I know the Angels have Escobar coming back, but he’s as far from a sure thing as you can get. One tweak of anything and he could miss the rest of the season. He’s way too fragile. Hopefully, the Angels, or any other team that is inquiring about Grabow, are desperate enough to give up something good in return.
I disagree that trading Zach or Paul would be dumping contract.
Duke is a classic sell high candidate. Good rookie year, gooey middle of suck, good first half this year. The “real” Zach Duke is probably closer to the one we saw for three years than the one we’ve seen for what amounts to almost one.
Maholm I would rather not see dealt, but only because I think he can be a part of a solid-to-good ML rotation in the pretty near future. If the package is right I wouldn’t be opposed to it, but we control his contract for a fair amount of time and I think he can be a good #3 guy when we get better pitching. I think to move him the Bucs would have to get a “blow us away” package like they did for McLouth. I just don’t see a team offering a package of 3 of their top 10 prospects for Maholm.
www.sixtyftsixin.com
by Sixty Feet, Six Inches on Jun 15, 2009 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions
The Duke thing is tricky
It would take a huge package for me to deal Maholm. However, like you said Duke hasn’t pitched this well in years. He looks like he has it together: great pitches and a lot of confidence. It is a huge risk either way. Hold onto him and he regresses to what we’ve seen the last few years and we have missed on and enormous opportunity to bring more talent into the system. Trade him and he continues to had a good career and you take a ML experienced pitcher out of your rotation.
by BattlinBucs on Jun 15, 2009 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions
You may take an ML pitcher out of your rotation, but depending on the package you get back, you may not miss him. At best, Duke is an average pitcher. A back-end starter on a contender. It doesn’t take much to replace his value, and if we hold him until the deadline, teams usually pay more than they should if it gives them a shot at the playoffs.
www.sixtyftsixin.com
by Sixty Feet, Six Inches on Jun 16, 2009 2:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Please Jim Tracy
Colorado exec’s are in love with your managing ability right now.
Please tell them that if they pick up your good buddy Ian Snell, you know your scary skills can turn him into a 20 game winner.
Tell them now, before the law of averages catches up with you.
Let's trade Ian's.
Ian Stewart for Ian Snell would be nice. Then we could slide Lil’ Laroche over to 2nd base when we trade Freddy.
Why the fantasies to move Andy to 2B?
He’s a third baseman. Period. I see no reason to exploit his lack of mobility at 2B. If you’re going to get Ian Stewart, play him at 2B; Stewart at least has some experience there.
Formerly known as Econolodge
Couldn’t have said it better myself, Willton. Of course, the Rockies would never give up Ian Stewart so that’s unrealistic. But all this trade talk and speculation is fun! It’s exciting. I just wish we were buyers more often than we are sellers.
I’m not obsessed with moving Laroche to 2B, but his power numbers don’t translate to a corner infield spot…..at least not yet.
About position-specific numbers.
People like to say things like “his numbers aren’t good for x position.” I never got that. Maybe for others at their position, sure, but the reality is that you can be more flexible like that.
Take the Indians. Don’t you suppose that having a perennial 25-35 home run hitter in Grady Sizemore playing center field gives them an option to maybe have a lighter hitter but a better defender in the corner outfield (or infield) spots? Even though those are typically “power positions?”
SImilarly, if we get power from unexpected positions in our lineup like catcher (Doumit) and second (in your hypothetical, Ian Stewart), plus the power in coming years from Pedro Alvarez, we can afford to have a 3B who might peak at 25 homers and average 15-20 per year. Especially when he shows strong gap-to-gap, extra base power like LaRoche has.
I know that’s nothing near the situation we have now. Just saying.
www.sixtyftsixin.com
by Sixty Feet, Six Inches on Jun 16, 2009 2:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Runs are runs.
If LaRoche never hit a single HR from here forward, and he put up a .850 OPS purely on singles, doubles, and walks, he’d be fine for offense at 2B.
RUNS ARE RUNS, REGARDLESS OF WHERE THEY COME FROM. FULL STOP.
Bob Smizik
I disagree with 99.9% of everything he writes but every now and again he says something correct.
Snell has the mental toughness of a snail
I thought that was hilarious
Smizik has been surprising as of late. The columns he’s written these past few weeks have actually been…well…good.
www.sixtyftsixin.com
by Sixty Feet, Six Inches on Jun 16, 2009 2:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Comparison to Paulino Trade
Thinking NH won’t give Snell away or trade him until (if) if shows value. With three or four decent starts (last one or so have not been bad), Snell can still build value.
We traded S. Torres for nothing because he complained about management. We got a lttle smarter with Paulino. I asked Neal Huntington about how the Paulino trade came to be at the winter meetings. He answered that the Pirates decided they were trading him and wrote a list of 15 or so names on a white board. Called the first GM and asked – Would you trade so and so for Ronnie P? They said no. Went to the 2nd, then 3rd. No! Got to the 7th name before Ruben Amaro said yes to Ronnie for JJ. And no doubt at the time that we sold low on Ronnie (or thought we did).
At a minimum we’ll do the same type of thing for Snell, rather than straight dump. Anyone thought about Snell or Snell + to Texas for Chris Davis, who has been terrible this year. could be the LH power to replace Adam? There’s a buy low…
You know, the Snell for Davis deal isn’t all that crazy. Granted, Davis is young and just broke through with the Rangers last year so I doubt the Rangers would be willing to trade him, but they do have prized prospect 1B Justin Smoak down in Double-A (or Triple-A, wherever he is) tearing it up. I guess you could call Smoak the Rangers’ Andrew McCutchen, although I don’t know if he’s quite ready for the big leagues. But they are very high on Smoak, and again, if the Rangers are desperate enough for starting pitching, which I have to believe that they are, maybe they would be willing to give up Davis. Davis is having a bad year and is in the Ryan Howard mold in that he has huge power, but strikes out A TON. Obviously, it’s all just speculation right now, but this stuff is fun to talk about.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Bucs Dugout
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recent FanPosts
Baseball Nation Recent Stories
In Association With
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- Pitcher Clayton Richard gets key pinch single in 13th after coming in 0 for 16
- Livan Hernandez welcomes ball boy to the bigs with shower of sunflower seeds (VIDEO)
- Man beaten by four others in Dodger Stadium parking lot
- Lance Berkman’s knee injury creates a lot of questions for Cards but also his career
- Next generation: Scott Van Slyke, son of Andy Van Slyke, hits first career homer
