Trade talks starting to heat up
by mspirate on Jun 15, 2009 7:48 PM EDT
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The Pirates have already made one big trade splash with the shipment of All-Star center fielder Nate McLouth to the Atlanta Braves for three high-end prospects earlier this month. Apparently, that was just the beginning as Neal Huntington is already receiving inquiries from other teams about more Pirate players. If you don't want to take the time to read the piece and you just want the details, here's a quick rundown:
1. The Colorado Rockies are very interested in starter Ian Snell, and it looks like the Pirates are ready to move him out of town. I wouldn't expect a whole lot back for him. Maybe one high-end prospect.
2. The San Francisco Giants are interested in 1B Adam LaRoche. The Giants all of sudden are six games over .500 and are challenging for the Wild Card (consider the Dodgers the NL West champs). The current Giants 1B, Travis Ishakawa, is an okay hitter, but has absolutely no power. Not sure what we would get back for him, although I have to think it would be more than the return for Ian Snell
3. The Los Angeles Angels have inquired about set up man John Grabow. Scot Shields, the Angels' former set up man, just suffered a season-ending injury, and Jose Arredondo was sent back to the minors because he was terribly ineffective. Call me crazy, but I think we may get a good return back for Grabow because the Angels are desperate for bullpen help all of a sudden.
4. Oh, and of course, Jack Wilson is always being shopped. The Red Sox continue to ask about him (haven't they been in on him for about three years now?). How badly do they need a SS?
In the end, I wouldn't lose any sleep over trading any of those four players, especially if we can get good players in return. In the end, what kind of return we get from these teams is going to come down to desperation. How desperate are these teams for a SP, 1B, SS, and set up man? Only time will tell.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of the managing editor (Charlie) or SB Nation. FanPosts are written by Bucs Dugout readers.
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It would be an absolute steal
if we got any sort of prospect back for Snell. Trading him is pretty much the definition of selling low/salary dump.
The Angels
Brandon Wood has been lingering in AAA for a long time. He wants to play in the big leagues, has the stick and he is behind several SS’s in Anaheim. What do you all think it would take to get him?
I would love to get Brandon Wood in a trade. It’d probably take more than Grabow (maybe Capps plus something?). I’m not sure where he would play as I believe his defense at SS is questionable (can someone confirm?) and LaRoche seems to be sticking at 3rd.
The Angels really seem to have something against Wood the same way the Dodgers did against LaRoche.
Yeah...
I’ve been wanting us to work a deal with the Angels for Brandon Wood for a while now… that is, as long as he can stay at short. Would they have any interest in Sanchez? Kendrick has been struggling this year and I would think Freddy along with Grabow would be a decent upgrade for them, netting us a couple of projects in addition to Wood. I’ve never heard anything about us being in on Wood though.
Brandon Wood was one of the top SS prospects in the MLB for a while (BA rankings- #83 in 2005, #3 in 2006, #8 in 2007, and #16 in 2008). He has raked in the minors and is still only 24. However, he never seems to get much of a chance because the angels seem to prefer Erick Aybarm who’s only 25. Wood also strikes out a ton and I don’t know much about his fielding, but I’ve always assumed he is attainable and worth a shot because he’s a blocked prospect at a premium position.
Considering the Angel's
bullpen has been horrific and their 2B hasnt been very good I think Wood + a good A or AA pitching prospect would be a good return.
by DialedtoGiles on Jun 16, 2009 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions
Maybe..I know this might sound crazy
Capps for Brandon Wood and Mark Trumbo
Both players considering that we trade LaRoche and Wilson
Sporting 4 Sports
by 4sportathlete on Jun 16, 2009 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions
We'd trade him...
…if we got more than he was worth in return.
Capps is actually significantly more expendable than Nate. He has a history of health problems, and a closer on a last-place team is teats on a bull, anyway.
AGREED
i would trade capps for wood in a split second. that would be a great move for us. i think we should try HARD to acquire wood. he is a pretty solid player and i wouldn’t mind him as our shortstop of the future.
lets start a love game, start a love game
Pirates Need a Shortstop Prospect
my two top targets for the pirates at the deadline are Brandon Wood from the Angels and Reid Brignac from Tampa Bay….i think both could be had but for a package of either LaRoche/Grabow for Wood and other prospects…. or Sanchez/Grabow for Brignac and other prospects… i personally like Brignac better because hes younger but he might be tougher to get because the rays are still high on him even though they have Bartlett having a break out year and 1st Overall Pick SS Beckham in the minors… but Brandon Wood seems like are best chance at getting a good power hitting shortstop… i think his first year in the minors if I’m not mistaking Wood hit a record 43 HRS and 51 Doubles in A ball his first year in the minors…then in 2006 he hit 25 HRS and had 19 Steals… but the only thing is they moved him to 3B just to accelerate his track to the big leagues because of Aybar and to get his bat in there lineup. Hopefully Huntington can find a way to acquire Wood and he can make the move back to Short Stop.
Tampa tried like hell to keep Brignac out of the Bay talks.
I highly doubt that they’re going to move him for a package deal that includes Grabow.
Also, on that topic, people here need to simmer down on all this crazy talk about how Grabow is going to bring back all these great high-ceiling prospects. He’s a situational lefty, and teams just don’t give up huge amounts of high-ceiling talent for a situational lefty.
The last time we moved a situational lefty
We picked up a SS prospect from the Cardinals named Jack Wilson.
Exactly.
The year we traded for Jack, BA had him rated as the #6 prospect in what was at that time one of the weakest farm systems in baseball. The equivalent in our modern system would be maybe Shelby Ford or someone along those lines.
We’re very lucky that Jack turned out as well as he did. Most guys with his prospect pedigree have Abe Nunez’s career, if not Lou Collier’s.
the last time we moved a situational lefty
was Damaso Marte to the Yankees last year
and we got a ton in return
But Nady Must of helped
Sporting 4 Sports
by 4sportathlete on Jun 16, 2009 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Marte isn't really a situational lefty.
Over his career, he’s been effective against both lefties and righties, and in terms of game usage he’s been a setup man.
And yes, Nady was at least 3/4 of the perceived value in that deal anyway.
yes
if we only dealed Marte, we probably would’ve only got McCutchen in return
Sporting 4 Sports
by 4sportathlete on Jun 16, 2009 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I Disagree Vlad
Grabow is less of a situational lefty than Marte was (is).
I do agree with you that Grabow will not bring much. But a contender in need will bring THE most…
Well, let's check the usage patterns:
% of games finished:
Marte: 24.9%
Grabow: 19.0%
Saves:
Marte: 36
Grabow: 6
Seems to me like Marte has spent more of his time in an 8th/9th inning role (i.e. that of a setup man) than Grabow has. And of course, Marte at his best was a significantly better reliver than Grabow.
Define "situational"
You’ve described Grabow as a situational lefty by quoting his stats v. righties, which seems counterintuitive to me, as does this reference to closing stats.?
Marte was “the closer” at different times in his career. Grabow has not been the closer.
Last year, Grabow made 74 appearances, 56 of which he started an inning. This year, 21 of 29 appearances were starting the 8th inning. I don’t have a real good memory, but I can’t recall when the Pirates regularly used him in a way I would describe as situationally.
Finally, to be a situational lefty, one might expect better figs v. lefties. His are marginally better than v. righties.
I don’t think he’s a situational guy, or for that matter much of a setup guy. He’s just a guy.
My points were:
Grabow is, in an ideal world, a situational lefty because he’s not particularly effective against RHBs. Hence, the vs. RHB stats I cited.
Marte has been used in late-inning roles more often than Grabow, and has been effective in those roles, hence the perception of him as more of a setup guy. He’s certainly drifting toward situational lefty as he ages and his skills decrease, of course.
I think it’s dangerous to look too closely at Grabow’s 2008 numbers, to the exclusion of all the mediocre play that came before. Teams aren’t going to pay for his 2008, and if we wanted to sell him based on those numbers, we would’ve had the best shot at it over last offseason.
Why not?
Scioscia wants nothing to do with Wood. He was forced to start him last summer and gave him about 150 AB’s straight, and Wood couldn’t clear the Mendoza Line.
Scioscia has had Shields to plug into the 8th inning for years now. He’s one of those managers that relies on a 7th inning guy, a 8th inning guy and a 9th inning guy — he never changes. Shields moved from 7th to 8th inning when KRod moved to 9th inning when Troy Percival left, and Fuentes came in this year to close, but that’s about it.
His problem over the years has been the 7th inning guy. This year has been worse. The Angels would be in first place right now if Shields and Fuentes had pitched better in the 8th and 9th innings.
The Angels aren’t the Pirates — they have to win now. Every once in a while a Kendry Morales gets a pass and just is handed a starting job. But that’ll never happen for Wood — he made the 25 man roster out of spring training and had less than 10 AB’s a month later when he was finally sent down to SLC. Scioscia has made it clear he just won’t play the guy.
So Scioscia would love to trade Wood for a RP. Escobar is a huge unknown — 1 game appearance since 2007 — and none of the other roster guys can hack the 8th inning. Arrendando got sent down to SLC too, so Angels have lost faith in him.
If Scioscia gets to make the decision Grabow for Brandon Wood or recent call-up 2B Sean Rodriguez is a real possibility.
How fricken much can Wood weigh?
Sporting 4 Sports
by 4sportathlete on Jun 16, 2009 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions
oh
I thought he was really heavy
Sporting 4 Sports
by 4sportathlete on Jun 16, 2009 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Scioscia may not like Wood...
…but Scioscia isn’t the one we’re negotiating with. And Grabow isn’t a setup guy – he’s got a .754 OPS and a 15/13 K/BB against RHB this year, with comparable numbers in past seasons. He’s a situational lefty, and that role’s being filled fairly adequately for them by Darren Oliver.
Angels desperate for a RP
Scioscia isn’t the GM, but he’s the guy who’s telling the GM (and Artie Moreno, the owner) “this is what I need if you expect to win this year.”
As of last Friday the Angels relievers had an AL-worst ERA of 5.86. That’s 1.03 worse than the next-worst (Texas). Last season, the Angels bullpen was fourth in the league, at 3.69.
Last night John Lackey turned over a 8-3 lead after 7 innings. The bullpen blew it up and the game ended as a nail biter 9-7. Against the Giants.
The OC Register has stated that Angel exec’s are aware that team has nothing with which to trade except prospects.
Grabow is the 8th inning guy for PBC this year, and not a LOOGY. No doubt. Angels will trade for the best setup RP it can get. My only point is (a) it may be the PBC, (b) the Angels are truly desperate, and © the GM can make Scoscia take Brandon Wood on the ML roster, but the GM can’t put him in the lineup (Wood had 9 AB’s in 5 weeks in LA this year, even though Figgins was off to a slow start)
Grabow is an 8th inning guy for us becuase we're a bad team.
He would not be an 8th inning guy for a contender, and they will not pay for him as though he is one, just because he happens to fill that role for us. Nor should they.
There’s no doubt that the Angels could use some pen help, and I expect them to trade a prospect or prospects for a good righty setup guy at some point (especially if Escobar experiences some kind of additional setback). But as I noted earlier, that doesn’t really have anything to do with Grabow, since he’s a poor fit for the role they’re trying to fill. If they make a trade with us for Grabow, it won’t be to fill their eighth inning hole, and if they DO make a trade with us to fill their eighth inning hole, it’ll be for a righty like Capps.
PBC is a bad team
But its bullpen is much better than the Angels bullpen.
Grabow is markedly better than any other option the Angels have as an 8th inning setup man.
Grabow is not better than anyone else the Angels could trade for. That’s what makes it a horse race.
Grabow is NOT better...
…than any of the Angels’ options as an 8th inning setup man, particularly if you include trade candidates.
A team with a left-handed closer needs a good right-handed reliever in their pen, and Grabow (like all lefties) is less effective against RHB. Tactically, he would be a terrible fit in the setup role.
Trade LaRoche
When Doumit gets back put him at first, he might stay healthy then. LaRoche can hit for power but that is not enough. He does not change his swing no matter what the count is and when he misses he isn’t even close. We have a couple of good young catchers that can platoon behind the plate, trade LaRoche, please!
Whenever Doumit has been injured in the past...
…it’s almost always been while running, hitting, or fielding at a non-catching position. He’s just fragile, such is life. Moving him to first base would make him a fragile, average-hitting 1B instead of a fragile, good-hitting catcher.
With Doumit being fragile, the best thing for us to do is to let him be fragile at the position where he has the most value, i.e. behind the plate.
I don't think he's got all that much ceiling left.
Whether they want to commit to him if LaRoche is dealt is another question, of course.
Crazy Ideas
1. Adam LaRoche to Giants for Tracis Ishikawa and Ivan Ochoa(Considering that Jack Wilson was already dealt)
2. Adam LaRoche and Jack Wilson to Red Sox for Jed Lowrie/Casey Kelly and Chris Carter
3. Wilson to BoSox for Jed Lowrie
4. John Grabow to Angels for Brandon Wood
5. Ian Snell to Rockies for Cash or PTBNL
Sporting 4 Sports
Responses.
1) Impossible, in that Ochoa is with Boston now. Even if he weren’t, though, I don’t like Ishikawa at all.
2) Boston doesn’t need LaRoche, and I don’t see them moving Lowrie.
3) There’s no way Boston would do this – they’d be giving up too much value.
4) There’s no way the Angels would do this – they’d be giving up too much value.
5) That would be selling ridiculously low on Snell.
this is why
I said crazy ideas. But Wood is blocked by so many people, they might sell low on him
Sporting 4 Sports
by 4sportathlete on Jun 16, 2009 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions
And i don’t understand why Freddy+grabow for Wood and a throw-in is inconceivable… 2B Kendrick has a .636 OPS right now, which isn’t even close to cutting it for a win now team
Vlad, I agree with most of your points, but I think you’re putting too much emphasis on Grabow as a “situational lefty”. Yeah, most of the time he is, but you have to think about the Angels’ bullpen situation right now. Shields is gone. Arredondo is gone. Escobar may be coming back, but it’s only a matter of time before he gets hurt again. The Angels NEED bullpen help, and they would more than likely let Grabow be their set-up man. He has shown in Pittsburgh that he can be a very good set-up man. Even if he’s not the set-up man, he will face both righties and lefties. I think Grabow for Wood or another SS/middle infield prospect in the Angels’ system would be very likely.
LOL
Better than Grabow can be had for that deal
If we were the only team they could deal with...
…then it might be reasonable. But since there are umpty-kajillion right-handed relievers for whom they could trade (many of whom would do just as well as Grabow if not better in the role of setup man), why would they fix on him?
Which is why I think...
…that they want him as a second situational lefty for the pen, and that they also plan to acquire a right-handed setup guy to fill their 8th-inning role. It’s not like they’re limited to one trade.
I think i suggested it earlier… anyway what do you think about that one? maybe we kick in some of Freddy’s contract (i know NH said he is opposed to that, but for the sake of argument…)
If the Pirates had a chance to obtain Brandon Wood but didn’t due to refusing to pay for Sanchez’s contract, I would be really surprised. I’d be perfectly happy with Grabow+Sanchez+cash for Wood or Capps+Sanchez for Wood. Who’s even playing second for the Angels now that Kendrick got sent down?
Not to be an ass
but it’s Sean, not John.
And he’s amazing.
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Not a problem - Freudian slip.
John Rodriguez is an OF I wanted to sign as a minor league FA over the offseason.
Amazing might be a little further than I’d go, but he’s a good prospect. Unfortunately, he’s a good prospect with some of the same strengths (power) and weaknesses (contact) as Wood, which will make it harder for him to win over Scioscia, who doesn’t typically like that sort of player.
Yeah
I don’t expect him to last long, but if Kendrick continues to struggle, he just might get his shot to perform.
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Wood doesn't walk on water
He’s not worth Freddy and Grabow.
Wood has failed 3-5 times to stick with the ML club. Everyone knows he’s in Scoscia’s dog house and will never ever ever get out.
Wood’s ML stats truly suck. Nyjer Morgan laughs at them. 200 plate appearances .198/.221/ .318
He’s good trade material — like Luigi his home team has given up on him, but he’s got a high upside.
200 PA is nothing.
That said, I think he’s probably a .230/.240 true-talent BA in the majors due to contact rate, making up for it in other areas of his game
no they would most def do that trade
but that wasnt what vlad was commenting on above. i actually don’t think we do that trade though.
lets start a love game, start a love game
Who will play first if we deal LaRoche? We won’t get a major league ready player in return for him unless we throw a couple of players in the mix.
I’d say give pearce a chance and see what he does. If he doesn’t produce get rid of him, don’t waste anymore time on him!
Right on, brother. The guy has done nothing but regressed considerably since being the Minor League Player of the Year two years ago, and he’s not getting any younger. Let him play the second half if LaRoche is traded. If he stinks up the joint again, cut him or trade him. It’s time to move on from Steve Pearce if he can’t do any better.
This seems to be
diametrically opposite your view re: Moss.
Just sayin’.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Jun 16, 2009 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah why not hinske?
hes actually good. i wish we gave him a few more at bats as it is.
lets start a love game, start a love game
What about Kila Ka'aihue from K.C guys
do you think he could be had. K.C has an affinity for power hitting first basemen and have a roster full of them. They desperately need a short-stop.
I would love to see that trade which would open up Laroche to the Giants for Sanchez, and Freddy and Grabow for Wood and maybe a solid AA prospect. Am i dreaming or is this possible.
by SHOOTFOR2010 on Jun 16, 2009 4:54 PM EDT reply actions
I think both halves of your idea are plausible options...
…as far as being things that the other teams would be willing to do. They may or may not be the best we could do for those players – we’ll have to see.
I think KC likes Ka’aihue – they just didn’t believe that he was ready for 2009. Not sure whether they’d be willing to flip him or not.
Know what else Jacobs doesn't do?
a) Field.
b) Run.
c) Get on base.
d) Hit left-handed pitchers.
e) All of the above.
It’s possible to hit 30+ HR and still be a net negative for a team. Just look at 1982 Dave Kingman, or 1983 Tony Armas, or 1987 Cory Snyder.
When thinking about an acquisition, you need to look at the player’s total value in all areas of the game, not just whether he hits a lot of home runs.
Yeah, he does suck at defense. That’s why he plays first base. Well, Jacobs isn’t going to hit for average, but he has massive power. LaRoche doesn’t hit for average OR power. The winner is…Jacobs (strictly offensively speaking).
He sucks at defense even by first base standards.
Which is why he’s spent the majority of his 2009 playing DH and not 1B, even though it means the Royals have to use Billy Butler in the field.
Also:
1) You’re confusing “power” with “home runs”. LaRoche has a .470 SLG this year, and a .500 last year, and a .490 for his career. He hits for plenty of power – it’s just that part of that power comes in the form of doubles, which you are apparently choosing to ignore for some reason.
2) You’re also overlooking LaRoche’s significant edge in OBP, a statistic that’s much more important than BA. LaRoche is usually in the .340s, while Jacobs’s career OBP is .317. That translates into more rallies killed (and fewer runs scored) for Jacobs’s teams.
Exactly. Adam LaRoche hits doubles, Jacobs hits HRs. Adam LaRoche grounds into double plays with the bases loaded. Adam LaRoche strikes out with RISP. Adam LaRoche only gets hits when there’s nobody on bases. What’s your point? I understand all the stats, but plain and simple, LaRoche is terrible. Sorry, and I know that we aren’t in the least bit interested in Jacobs (nor should we be), but theoretically speaking, I’ll take Jacobs over LaRoche anyday.
Then your theory is flawed
If you hate Laroche, how on earth could you be interested in Jacobs? It doesn’t make sense literally, figuratively, theoretically, or existentially. You’d like a worse player to replace the player you hate. Please don’t explain because it’s unexplainable. It can only be explained by your whim, to which you’re entitled, it just makes no sense.
I’m not saying I want Jacobs! Ugh, no, I don’t want him. You’re right. Jacobs is just as bad as LaRoche. I was just saying theoretically that from an offensive standpoint, if you gave me a choice, I’d take Jacobs in a heartbeat. We’re paying LaRoche $7M to hit like he’s hitting?!? It’s a joke. At least Jacobs would strike out with the bases loaded and give the next guy a chance instead of GIDP and ruining the whole inning. Sickening.
to hit like he's hitting?
you mean .345/.458/.543 since June 1 (with 11 BB/7 K)?
or .256/.355/.466 for the season (which is way high for him, by the way).
I suspect he’ll even out to .270/.340/.490 (or so) by the time the season’s over.
maybe even a little better (if he has his usual second-half surge)
but please get over this “Adam LaRoche is horrible because he GIDP with the bases loaded.”
There’s a big enough sample to know exactly what Adam LaRoche is…and it’s not nearly as bad as you think.
“which is way high for him, by the way” – I mean to say it’s way high for him at this point in the season
you people are so dumb
jacobs is terrible. laroche is actually good. plain and simple. laroche is a really good defensive first baseman and NOT a bad hitter by any means. everyone hates on him for no reason. he is the biggest power bat we have.
lets start a love game, start a love game
If you understood all the stats...
…then you wouldn’t say things that are wrong all the time.
“Adam LaRoche grounds into double plays with the bases loaded.”
GIDP per 162 games:
LaRoche: 14
Jacobs: 15
GIDP/PA, bases loaded, career:
LaRoche: 6/85
Jacobs: 3/47
“Adam LaRoche strikes out with RISP.”
K/500 PA, RISP, career:
LaRoche: 109
Jacobs: 112
“Adam LaRoche only gets hits when there’s nobody on bases.”
Laroche, men on base, career: .828 OPS
Laroche, bases empty, career: .833 OPS
You may want to quit while you’re behind. Just sayin’.
You still make no point. Those stats indicate that LaRoche and Jacobs are the exact same player! They hit into roughly the same amount of double plays. They strike out roughly the same. They’re both going to hit for about the same average. So what’s your point? They are the same player offensively, but give me Jacobs because he’s going to hit about 10 more HR every year. That’s all I’m sayin. I can’t stand to watch LaRoche kill our lineup game after game.
10 homers
is 1 every 16 games. Other than that, he’ll be killing the line-up just like Mario is.
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My point was...
…that you don’t know what you’re talking about. Everything you said in the post above mine was easily demonstrably wrong. As such, until you start paying attention to actual performances, rather than just making stuff up, nobody should ever pay any attention to anything that you say.
Also, LaRoche and Jacobs are not the same player. LaRoche and Jacobs are the same in the areas in which you had said that LaRoche was worse. In all the other areas I already mentioned (fielding, running, doubles, getting on base, not needing to be platooned, etc.) LaRoche is significantly better.
I’m going to suggest again that you stop digging while you’re behind. You’re fast approaching China.
HUH
Tell me, the numbers look pretty similiar. Would you possibily be able to add into the equation contract cost? Is there any new fancy math that equates “bang for buck”? Right now I have no idea of the contract status of either player. But, considering the similiar numbers, perhaps Jacobs may be an addition by subtration. Freeing up money for the “future”…
Look, this Jacobs talk isn’t realistic because the Pirates have absolutely no interest in him, nor should they. I was just thinking out loud and saying that if I had the choice, I would take Jacobs over LaRoche when it comes to offense. Obviously, Vlad doesn’t agree and that’s fine. He has his opinion and I have mine. We’ll just leave it at that.
Not particularly similar, in my view.
LaRoche has better offensive numbers for both 2009 (.841 vs. .776) and for his career as a whole (.833 vs. .811), even without accounting for the defensive gap or the boost Jacobs gets from being platooned.
That’s a sizable gap.
1983 Armas is the poster child for why RBI’s are a horrible measure of value of a batter. he has 103 (or 110) that year, and his OBP was between .250 and .280
he hit behind Wade Boggs for crying out loud. with his is OBP you figure Armas had someone on base > 50% of the time he came up to bat. RBI due to attrition.
by Blyleven Curve Ball on Jun 16, 2009 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Voice of Reason
Thank you Vlad, you always seem to keep everyone in check when ideas of the Pirates,trade or otherwise, start to get out of control. Here and at WHYGAVS your points are almost always spot on and have real thoughts about possibilities that are being discussed. Keep it up, when dealing with the Pirates it’s easy to blow things out of proportion and expectations can go way over the top and a voice like yours is needed to keep everyone grounded and in perspective of legit options available to the Buccos. With so many commenters it’s always nice to get to one of yours and get a real take on things. You can mail that $100 bucks now, I hope I said everything you told me to. Ha, jk, keep it up and hopefully expectations won’t get too outta control. As far as trades Vlad, do you see the Bucs moving Maholm or Duke considering all the starting pitching that is needed around the league and that those two would probably bring a higher quality prospect return that some are looking to get for Snell or Grabow, I ask because it looks the Angels are now hurting for starters as well and to get Wood and other top prospects from them we would prob need to deal a higher quality player ourselves.
Thanks for the kind words.
I could definitely see them moving Maholm or Duke at the deadline. It’s a good time to sell SP for value, both look better than their real level of talent thanks to our strong 2009 defense, and we have enough SP depth now to potentially weather the loss for the remainder of the season.
Just my opinion, though.
Definitely. Although it would take A LOT more in terms of a package for NH to trade our top pitchers, seeing as how we are starving for pitching, either one could be shipped out if the offer was too good to refuse. Having said that, I highly doubt NH trades our best pitchers for three prospects. Surely, he would be looking for some major-league ready talent. Not saying he wouldn’t be looking for any prospects, but I have to think he would ask for a major league ready player or two along with a prospect.
Vlad, I have wondered this for a while now
I’d like to Keep Maholm (due to his contract, but as seen with McLouth may make him even more desirable), but seeing as they (Duke & Paul) have pitched pretty well so far this season, and could add some SP depth (say #3 – 4) on teams with playoff aspirations, was wondering who you thought may be most interested in these two?
Also curious if you think they’d promote Lincoln to AAA if this happened, before he mastered his changeup (I read he was being kept in AA to master it before a promotion)?
by Pensburgh Pirates on Jun 17, 2009 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not Vlad...
but I know Texas, LAA and Philly are looking for young, solid starting pitchers the most.
There's always lots of demand for a solid SP at the deadline.
As Slick says, Texas and Philly would make a lot of sense (Philly in particular, given their longtime investment in Moyer). I could also see the Mets, Brewers, and Tigers as options, and I never count the White Sox out of any deal.
I hesitate to speculate too much on Lincoln, since I haven’t seen him pitch at all this year, and thus can’t really gague how well he’s progressing on the change. If he’s lagging, I think they’ll probably keep him where he is, since they have enough AAA depth to fill in without needing him.
Grabow TYPE A free agent
according to mlbtraderumors.com if season ended yesterday.
doesn't matter
If Grabow is with us til the end of the season, he will not be offered arbitration.
why is that?
Do you think they’re afraid he’d accept?
Probably, yeah.
Middling relievers who qualify as Type A don’t get signed these days. Look at all the trouble Juan Cruz had getting a job last offseason, and Cruz is significantly better than Grabow.
Definitely
It’s a tough call right now, but if it’s another collusive tight market this offseason, I can see Laroche accepting as well, if he sticks through the season. His agent might advise him to accept and hope for a better market after the 2010 season.
Wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing for us, if he's not moved.
He’s an average starter at the position, and with Jack (and maybe Freddy) coming off the tab for 2010, we wouldn’t exactly be lacking in payroll room for a one-year deal.
haha
Pirates should just trade off everyone this season and tank it… so we can draft BRYCE HARPER 1st Overall in next years draft lol
Harper is awesome.
I’d love a shot at him, even if it meant losing a kajillion games for the rest of the year.
yea man Harper is crazy… hes dropping out of high school to go to Jr college so he can get drafted in next years draft or 2011’s depends on the rules… The Nationals are going to have 2 Amazing prospects in Strasburg and Harper if they end up with the 1st overall pick which they probably will lol… i agree with you about Grabow theres no way they would get Wood straight up for him i think everyone over values him… but that said i think a Sanchez/Grabow or a LaRoche/Grabow would get it done for Wood plus prospects.
Hopefully
This is a long shot, but we trade everyone like you said, the Nats go on a 30 game win streak, and everyone wins!
Sporting 4 Sports
by 4sportathlete on Jun 17, 2009 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions
We
might have more wins right now than the Nats will have at the end of the season.
Or we’ll have the total by the All-Star Game
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This would be a trade i would do if i was gm...
a trade between the pirates and the Angels seems to be realistic with angels needing a good starting pitcher, a solid bat, and relief pitcher…. if i was Neil Huntington i would be in strong contact with angels because of there needs and there abundance of young strong talent…. i would try to pull this trade off if i was the bucs….
Maholm, Sanchez, and Grabow and maby a low level prospect for SS/3B/2B Brandon Wood, SP Jordan Walden, 2BHowie Kendrick and two mid tier pitching prospects… the only reason we throw in a prospect because Sanchez and Grabow will be free agents at the end of the year which kinda decreases there value in my opinon…….
Reasoning the angels sent Howie Kendrick to the minors and are willing to move him because they have Sean Rodriguez to be there 2nd Baseman of the future…Jordan Walden is there top pitching prospect and throws in the upper 90’s. and we all know about Brandon Wood…plus we would acquire two pitching prospects to add to are pitching in the minors… This deal makes alot of sense for both teams i feel… it gives the angels a solid Starting Pitching in Maholm who’s signed to a nice contract… a great hitter in Freddy Sanchez… and a solid setup man in Grabow… and the pirates get two top prospects in Wood and Walden…plus a major league 2nd baseman in Kendrick who’s still only 25.
That's too much on our end.
Sanchez is not a FA. His vesting option will kick giving im value. Your idea is bad though. Wood’s strike out rate really concerns me and I think that will prevent him from being a star at the next level. Maybe not. I think we have a match with the Rangers and Phillies too if we are willing to deal either Maholm or Duke. The Rangers system is loaded. The Phillies could offer up Donald, Taylor and a pitching prospect in a package. Donald may not stick at SS but I wouldn’t mind having him at 2B if he couldn’t. Lots of interesting angles out there if we are willing to deal real pitching.
Maybe comparable to the Blanton package?
That said, the Phillies might start out trying to hunt bigger game than Maholm. I think he’d be more of a fallback option for them, if they can’t get a front-of-the-rotation guy.
if i was trading with the phillies...
id give up Maholm for Kyle Drabek, Jason Donald, and a mid tier prospect….do u think they would do that or would they want more?
Trading Donald might be problematic.
He just blew out his left knee, so it’s tough to assess his value right now.
Texas> Philly
Maholm has solid skills and a very friendly contract situation which enhances his value. Texas has a super deep farm system. Guys out side their top ten could easily be in the top five for another club.
A few names of interest – Kennil Gomez, Richard Bleier, Mitchell Morland, Yoon-Hee Nam, Martin Perez, Teagarden, Kiker
I personally like Morland Gomez Perez and Yoon-Hee quite a bit from the stat line.
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