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Pirates Still Aren't Close

The Post-Gazette editorial page continues its commentary on the Pirates. I'd rather not comment on these sorts of things, but because of the impact a P-G editorial can have on public opinion, I'll add my two cents.

Last week Pirates executives made one of the most controversial trades in years, dealing Gold Glove centerfielder Nate McLouth to Atlanta for three prospects (we were part of the chorus of critics). Yet today the team is only three games under .500 and four games out of first place in the National League Central Division.

In February the Penguins didn't look like contenders either, but the lure of the cup proved all-powerful. Now the Pirates have had a taste. May they, too, take up residency soon in the City of Champions.

I don't know anything about the Penguins, but even I know they came within two games of winning the Stanley Cup last year, have an amazing core of young talent and, moreover, spent several painful years patiently building that core of talent. There probably are lessons the Pirates can learn from the Penguins, but the idea that you should start putting champagne on ice every time you get anywhere near .500 isn't one them.

I'm not sure whether to read the above excerpt as a clueless criticism of the Pirates' current strategy or simple, ho-hum optimism, but just in case it's the former:

At almost this exact point in the year 2005, the Pirates beat the Devil Rays, giving them an actual .500 record, with 30 wins and 30 losses. They still lost 95 games that year, and that shouldn't have surprised anyone, because instead of looking at 60 games and assuming the results represent the team's true level of ability, a smart observer will, y'know, look at who's actually on the team. The 2005 Pirates started the year with Matt Lawton, Daryle Ward, Jose Castillo in Benito Santiago in their starting lineup and Tike Redman as the third hitter in their order. They also had Kip Wells, Josh Fogg, Mark Redman and Dave Williams in their rotation. They were .500 after 60 games, yes, but does that look like a championship-caliber core? Did the Pirates fail to win it all that year simply because "the lure" of a title was something less than "all-powerful"?

Then in 2006, the Pirates played 37-35 baseball after the All-Star break. That didn't stop the 2007 team from losing 95 games yet again, despite the much-ballyhooed offseason addition of Adam LaRoche. Again, talent matters. A bad team can sustain a run of passable baseball for a while. That doesn't mean it's headed for the World Series.

The Pirates are currently three games below .500. They aren't as bad as they've been in past years, but they still don't have enough offense, frontline starting pitching, or relief pitching. And here's a big secret: being three games below .500 this year is not much of an accomplishment. The Pirates are currently last in their division, and it's very hard to leapfrog five other teams, especially when two of them have as much talent as the Cubs and Brewers do. The Bucs are on pace to win 77 games, which frankly is nothing to write home about, even if it's much better than they've been the past several years. And that pace is actually better than it was before they traded McLouth. As someone who watches the games, I'm happy to see the Pirates doing a better job throwing strikes and playing defense. But they're still miles from where a contender should be, and I hope the front office will continue its business of rebuilding the organization from the ground up.

0 recs  |  Comment 14 comments |

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Perry Hill Speaks Out

Oct 2009 by Charlie - 64 comments

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The thing that annoys me most is that all these moronic Pirates “fans” are going to be the same ones hopping on the bandwagon and buying my playoff tickets when we finally do turn it around.

by matskralc on Jun 16, 2009 4:59 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

If the Pens dealt Ryan Malone in 2004 there may have been some grumbling because he was one of the better players on some lousy Pens teams, but not so much in 2008. From a fan perspective, good players look really good when surrounded by worse players, and good players recede into filling roles when surrounded by great players.

Better analogy — Max Talbot has much more value to the Pens as an energy guy/4th line grunt than if you expected him to score a lot of goals. Even though he’s flashed some skills with some timely goals, his real value on a great team is being a cog. Nate could be a nice cog for some better team, maybe even a better than average one, but something is obviously wrong with your team if he’s your best player. Unless of course you can produce 8 players just like him, in which case they’re all expendable.

by chicos_pants on Jun 16, 2009 5:46 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

There is a method to building championship contenders

The Pens and Steelers follow that method. So do the Red Wings. The Pirates have also adopted that method.

The method: Acquire as many good, young players as possible.

Steve Z

by steve_z on Jun 16, 2009 5:52 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Miles?

I don’t think they are miles away from anything, UNLESS they really start to clean house and pretty much turn over the whole team within the next 2 years.
   They have guys Now, who can still be a part of this team NEXT YEAR, that a few new aquisitions that produce, can make this a contender (or at least a winning team) in the year 2010, which is not that far away.

by tom p on Jun 16, 2009 6:12 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

McCutchen?

Let’s not forget that the Pirates recent success has been, in part, due to the play of Andrew McCutchen. The Pirates weren’t going to either move McLouth out of CF or waste McCutchen’s speed in one of the corner outfield spots. While you could argue that Moss should have been benched, McLouth was actually blocking McCutchen.

by ugarte on Jun 16, 2009 6:15 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Charlie:

is there gonna be a game thread outside this post?

Free your ass and your mind will follow.

by cocktailsfor2 on Jun 16, 2009 6:27 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Yes, it’s scheduled to go up in a few minutes.

by Charlie on Jun 16, 2009 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

cool -

thanks.

BTW, any Chicago gigs on the horizon? Or close by?

Free your ass and your mind will follow.

by cocktailsfor2 on Jun 16, 2009 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

McCutchen...Young

I Love the guy, glad they made room for him and gets to play everyday instead of pinch hitter or something…lets not forget to talk about Mr. Delwyn Young 9 of 17 in last 5 games..He needs more starts! Sorry Moss but your .243 and your hit less in last 4 games and i think Young has way more upside!

by C Los on Jun 16, 2009 7:18 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Three years is about right ...

Remember that LaRoche, Wilson and Freddie and likely gone. You can’t rebuild an IF—especially with the Pirates minor league options— and hope to contend in a year.

It’s not going to happen.

But they are finally doing it the right way. Trading players at their peaks (most of the time). Drafting much better. Not signing ancient has-beens who’s only option to continue playing is to come to Pittsburgh.

Youth movements take time. They are even more problematic when the major league team had no good young players when NH and FC took over and the minor league system may have been the worse in baseball history.

I will say that the pitching depth is much improved. They still need a front-ling guy. Maybe Maholm will become a #2.

But they are past the days f trotting Matt Morris about there.

by Bernie6666 on Jun 17, 2009 9:54 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

"... only option to continue playing is to come to Pittsburgh."

Except for that line (see Monroe, Craig), you are on the mark.

Free your ass and your mind will follow.

by cocktailsfor2 on Jun 17, 2009 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with what you're saying about past hopes Charlie.

However, the Bucs had a losing pythagorean record on June 17th from 2002-2008 according to MLB.com. Today they are at .500 (32-32) and have actually scored a couple more runs than they have conceded.

I know we’re all waiting for the typical eight game losing streak, or twelve defeats in thirteen games. But the stat-heads keep telling us that the runs a team scores compared to those it gives up is the best predictive tool, so I’m hopeful of a little success until the trading deadline clear-out of Adam. Jack, Freddy et al.

The schedule through the beginning of August looks pretty friendly too. So we may all have to suffer/enjoy a mini version of 1997.

by RDV across the sea on Jun 17, 2009 5:17 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

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