Twins 8, Pirates 2

by Charlie on Jun 16, 2009 11:11 PM EDT Comment 26 comments

There were some entertaining moments in this game--Nyjer Morgan's first home run since 1953, a couple of nifty double plays, broadcaster John Wehner's amusing announcement that he was officially retiring (from playing)--but this was an ugly one. If you get the chance, check out Craig Monroe's at bat against R.A. Dickey in the 8th. Monroe strikes out, then shows no discernable urgency getting to first once he realizes Joe Mauer hasn't caught the ball. Monroe trots the whole way, then winds up safe as Mauer is charged with a throwing error. It's bad enough when good players don't run down the line, but when a bad, washed-up, lucky-to-have-a-job player like Monroe does it, it's infuriating.

That the Pirates managed to turn five double plays and still allow eight runs says a lot about the way this game went. There were baserunners galore--Paul Maholm alone allowed 14 hits and a walk in five innings. The Pirates missed a chance to get into the game when they were down two runs in the fifth, as Adam LaRoche grounded into an inning-ending double play with the bases loaded. And the game might have turned out a little differently if Delmon Young hadn't robbed Andy LaRoche of a homer in the fourth, or if Andrew McCutchen hadn't lost a ball in the lights in the fifth. Generally, though, the Twins' singles-heavy attack was just too much. Mauer had four hits, raising his average to .429. He's pretty high on the list of players who could potentially hit .400 in a season, so it'll be interesting to watch him as the series goes on.

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IIRC...

this isn’t the first time that Monroe has dogged it…and I believe it ended up with him being chained to the bench for awhile the other time. I’d say it’s time for Steven Pearce to be let out of Indy Prison.

Also…as I mentioned near the end of the game thread…there’s a statistical anomaly with Paul Maholm and our catchers.

If Doumit or Diaz is catching…Maholm’s ERA in 47 2/3 innings is about 0.75. If Jaramillo is catching…in 39 2/3 innings…it’s 8.37. Why JR continues to let JJ catch Maholm…I don’t know??

by Thunder on Jun 16, 2009 11:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

It doesn’t matter who the catcher is! That’s strictly a coincidence. You’re goin’ to tell me that the Twins’ offense hammered Maholm tonight and Maholm was missing his spots because Jaramillo was catching him? C’mon man.

by mspirate on Jun 17, 2009 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Could also be a false correlation.

There’s a positive correlation between sales of Coca-Cola and murder rates, but Coke doesn’t make people kill people. They’re both being affected by a secondary factor: temperature. Heat makes people both thirsty and cranky.

by Vlad on Jun 17, 2009 8:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe it is a false correlation...

I won’t dispute that. However…it’s stretching the idea of randomness pretty darn far to believe that it is random that ALL of Maholm’s bad starts are with Jaramillo catching…and NONE with Diaz or Doumit catching.

by Thunder on Jun 17, 2009 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It’s not stretching it very far at all.

Your two data sets are composed of 7 and 7. You’ve got a 1-in-6 chance of flipping 5 heads out of 7 on a fair coin. When you actually manage to do it, that doesn’t mean you’re a good coin flipper.

Next, consider how many sets of 7 starts currently exist in the entire major leagues already. You could figure 2 per starter times 5 starters times 30 teams. Right there is 300 sets of 7. That’s 50 sets that will hit 5 out of 7. Completely by random chance.

by matskralc on Jun 17, 2009 8:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Might as well try out Diaz

with Maholm and see if it works.

Nothing to lose, really.

True Blue Jazz
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RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09

by UtesFan89 on Jun 17, 2009 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

so why did he start the 6th...

“He had trouble getting the ball down early in the game,” manager John Russell said. “He wasn’t sharp early. By the time he found it, it was too late. And we couldn’t score enough runs for him.”……wow Russell, you pulled him after three straight hits in the 6th…great timing…

by C Los on Jun 17, 2009 12:27 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

You’re exactly right about Monroe, Charlie. What the heck was he doing?!? I’ve supported Monroe all year, sticking up for him when people thought he had no business seeing the field and wanting him to play against lefties, but what Monroe did tonight was sickening! Like you said, the guy is lucky to have a job and it’s just ridiculous not to play as hard as you can every single night. You’re playing major league baseball for a living for crying out loud!! I don’t think Monroe should see the field again until he gets his act right. I don’t care what the score is; play as hard as you can all the time! Who does he think he is, Albert Pujols? I quit watching the game after that half inning.

by mspirate on Jun 17, 2009 12:28 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

He has always dogged everything, in Detroit and Minn.

i have no Idea why in the world Pitt would pay this ass money, I have always said that people always want him to play over Moss and it sickens me. Moss may be in a bad way but at least he is sucking at 100%.

I have always stated on here that there must be a reason that Monroe was unemployed coming into this year and there you got your proof

When are we going to trade Cutch now

by .500 Please on Jun 17, 2009 1:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yep. It was pretty obvious after that debacle that Monroe doesn’t really take his job seriously and doesn’t think it’s important. Don’t people out in the working world that don’t take their jobs seriously and give half the effort get fired? Well, it’s about time for Monroe to get fired.

by mspirate on Jun 17, 2009 1:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think Monroe's unemployment...

…had at least as much to do with the fact that he’s washed up, but being lazy probably doesn’t help, either.

by Vlad on Jun 17, 2009 8:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

oh and by the way

what the hell is he talking about? finding what? the bench and the showers? Im confused, sorry John.

by C Los on Jun 17, 2009 12:46 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Monroe

Monroe = Kevin Young + Derek Bell

by Buccos21 on Jun 17, 2009 8:52 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

To think

supposedly this was the guy who hung up the deal that would have brought us Jair Jurgens. And Wilson would be gone too, so we wouldn’t have to listen to all this stuff now.

For about the 1,000th time: Stupid f-ing Littlefield.

by bucdaddy on Jun 17, 2009 9:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Catchers and Pitchers

It’s amazing how people these days can only look at computers, numbers, data, etc. I could call this the era of the “robotic/computerized scouts.”

Who remembers Greg Maddux, Steve Carlton, and others of the many great pitchers of all time making sure a specific (personal) catcher needed to catch for them these days. Could have been due to catching styles, game-calling (which gets laughed at these days), comfort, you name it.

Can’t prove it by the new “baseball measurements” people are enamored with these days, but it’s clear to me that YES, there could be a direct correlation between what some pitchers do when certain catchers are behind the plate. Make as much fun of it as you want.

by Pirate in Montana on Jun 17, 2009 10:28 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Maddux never wanted Javy Lopez catching him.......

because he had no confidence in him blocking balls in the dirt. If you watched Maddux in his Atlanta days he would throw almost every 2 strike curveball in the dirt and did not want to depend on Lopez blocking it. Pitchers can become limited in their arsenal if they have no confidence in their catcher to do certain things. Whether that has happened between Maholm and Jaramillo I have no idea. My view comes from coaching pitchers and catchers for 30 years in high school and college.

by buccoben on Jun 17, 2009 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

what about

wakefield and mirabelli? there are still personal catchers around.

kerrigan calls the pitches from the dugout so the catcher’s game calling skills are irrelevant with respect to our team.

what do you mean by “catching style?” do you mean a catcher that doesn’t allow passed balls or make throwing errors or throws out a good number of runners trying to steal? those are stats too and they’ve been tracked since before there were computers…

by johnnycuff on Jun 17, 2009 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Mirabelli is kind of a special case.

If there were more knuckleballers, there’d be less value in knowing how to catch one, since more catchers would have experience with such.

by Vlad on Jun 17, 2009 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

New "baseball measurements"

What, esoteric stuff like ERA?

by bucdaddy on Jun 17, 2009 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

There was a game early in the season at PNC Park-

I can’t recall the other team-and Monroe came off the bench to pinch hit. The weather was terrible and hardly anyone was in the stands.

Monroe looked like he was about ready to yawn a number of times while flicking the bat through the strike zone on the way to a K.

It’s time to give him his walking papers.

by patthatt on Jun 17, 2009 11:06 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Craig Monroe=Mr. Spring Training Excitement

by patthatt on Jun 17, 2009 11:07 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Irrelevant to the game, but...

The Rangers inquired on Snell.
The Pirates aren’t eager to deal him, because most teams value him as a reliever, and the Pirates value him as a starter.

True Blue Jazz
Bucco Ball
I'm on Twitter
RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09

by UtesFan89 on Jun 17, 2009 11:16 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

that's a pretty harsh indictment of Monroe...

… and it stands in stark contrast to the hustle he displayed earlier this month:

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/pirates/s_629074.html

maybe Monroe only hustles when he’s on base, not at bat?

by humbucker on Jun 17, 2009 12:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Catcher ERA has a correlation of close to 0 in consecutive years. A good catcher one year can be a bad catcher next year in terms of pitcher ERA. It’s all random. It doesn’t matter who catches whom in terms of stuff like that. Since Maholm has no nasty moving pitches like a knuckler, it shouldn’t matter who catches him.

by ryebr3ad on Jun 17, 2009 3:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs