Robi and JJ doin it well.
by Gfmotorsports on Jun 17, 2009 10:50 PM EDT
18 comments
Now really i would think that Adam LaRoche is gone by the deadline.(thank god) Why not just move Doumit to 1st?? I mean JJ and Diaz are killing the ball!! Also they are much better behind the plate. Any other thoughts from you all???
Also can someone please tell me a reason why the bucs shouldn't retain Sanchez and Wilson. It seems to me that they love it here and there is NO depth at those positions.
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i would type a response but there are already about 15 threads in the archive pointing out what a terrible idea moving doumit to 1st is.
Yes, this argument is becoming a broken record. Doumit’s bat loses value at 1B, plain and simple. Doumit will not move to 1B.
He loses value, but after LaRoche is gone he may be our best available option. I advocate giving Pearce and Moss extended chances first, but if they can’t get it done, I’m not opposed to playing Doumit at first, even if his offensive numbers are below average there.
www.sixtyftsixin.com
by Sixty Feet, Six Inches on Jun 18, 2009 1:23 AM EDT up reply actions
I thought Hinske could play 1st?
Wasnt that the rumour?
by BlindSquirrel on Jun 18, 2009 2:49 AM EDT up reply actions
To a certain extent, anybody can play 1B.
Stand on the bag, catch the ball. It’s not rocket science. Some people are better than others, of course, but there’s a reason it’s usually the position of last resort for iron gloves.
Hinske has 176 career games at 1B, so I’m sure he could be at least competent there if we needed him.
As much as it pains me to say this, because he’s often an idiot, Keith hernandez always protests this idea and I kind of agree with him. Although, if a guy cant get it done anywhere else, it is the best place for him, but it’s not a throw away.
Whenever a left handed hitter is up, isn’t the 1B basically in the same situation that a 3B is regarding hits ripped down the line, fielding bunts? Except with the added factor of often holding a runner on, and getting back to the bag to receive throws?
Look at the difference gold glovers like Pujoils, Texiera make compared to Giambi/Posada or guys who are moved to DH cuz they hurt the team on D either for lack of skill or getting old like Hafner, Thome. Lest we not forget Dougie Alphabet (shamelessly playing to Pirates fans for support)
RIP NATE. LADIES AND GENTLEMEN...MISTER TONY PLUSH!
Think about it in scouting terms.
If a guy has range and an arm, he goes to short or CF. If a guy has range but no arm, he goes to 2B or LF (or sometimes C if he’s got ++ range or a borderline arm). If he’s got arm but no range, he goes to 3B, RF, or C, or becomes a pitcher.
Nobody is ever placed at 1B because they’re a good defender (in the modern game, anyway). They’re put there because the team’s other defenders are better, or because there are holes in their skill set preventing them from playing more valuable positions. Pujols was a 3B/OF until concerns about his elbow snapping during a throw got him shifted to first. Tex became a 1B because he came up at the same time as Blalock, and the Rangers liked Hank’s glove better at third.
Even Dougie Ballgame. What did he do when he tried to start making himself more marketable to teams last year? He started playing 3B and corner OF, because the offensive baseline is lower there (and thus more Dougie-sized) for a tolerable glove.
You sell OF short
There’s no range, and there’s absolute plodders, or guys that can’t track balls.
You might not be opposed to play Doumit at 1B, but it really doesn’t matter what you or I think. Management is opposed to play Doumit at 1B. First of all, his bat loses a lot of value at 1B. He’s a switch hitting catcher that can hit 15-20 HR/year. That’s above average for a catcher and is very rare to find these days. Also, being that the Pirates will listen to trade offers from other teams for any of our players, Doumit’s greatest trade value is at catcher. Once again, a team wanting a power hitting, switch hitter catcher is going to have to give up a lot and that’s great for the Pirates (although I don’t want to see Doumit get traded) because they get the other team’s best players/prospects in return. If he were to get moved to first base, although his bat is good, it would be below average by first baseman’s standards in the game today. So the bat is better at catcher and the trade value is much higher at catcher.
From the thread "Trade talks starting to heat up"
The Doumit issue is discussed about half-way through. Check out Vlad’s response to g021g0.
This should link you there:
I made most of my life decisions at a Foghat concert... I stand by them.
by Chester J Lampwick on Jun 18, 2009 12:55 AM EDT reply actions
I lied about the link
http://www.bucsdugout.com/2009/6/15/910479/trade-talks-starting-to-heat-up#17028514
I made most of my life decisions at a Foghat concert... I stand by them.
by Chester J Lampwick on Jun 18, 2009 12:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Yep. Doumit is a good offensive catcher, but a bad offensive first baseman. If we should do anything, I think we should trade either Jaramillo or Diaz to someone who needs a catcher badly, for some fresh, quality goods.
Wrong
We need both Jaramillo and Diaz for the rest of this year and at least next season because Doumit is injury prone and we don’t have anything else at the position in the organization within shouting distance of PNC Park.
Yeah, we’d get one helluva return for Jaramillo or Diaz.
“fresh, quality goods”
Roll eyes.
There are a lot of people on BD
who don’t agree with you, ryebr3ad, and they clearly know much more about baseball than you do.
Who said the team would keep both JJ and Diaz on the roster when Doumit returns, if he is used as a catcher?
Of course it’s not possible with so many relievers occupying spots on the 25-man roster in recent years.
Your call to trade either JJ or Diaz for “fresh, quality goods” is a dipshit idea.
As Uncle Nate says, “Good Day.”
While we wouldn’t get “fresh, quality goods” for JJ or Robi, we could trade one of them for a decent prospect or two. We’re not going to get another team’s best prospects, as ryebr3ad suggests. That’s just absurd. But if it’s Huntington’s plan to restock the bare farm system as quickly as possible through trades and the draft and continue to add depth and talent to the organization, and that’s definitely his plan going forward with this team, then by all means, use one to get a decent prospect or two back. Doumit is your catcher for the next few years (assuming he isn’t traded) and the Pirates just drafted their everyday-catcher-to-be with this year’s first rd. selection. Huntington has also said numerous times that Doumit isn’t going to move to another position, so there probably won’t ever be room for JJ or Robi to start for us, and both have shown, at least in my opinion, that they can become quality starting catchers for somebody. When Doumit gets back, obviously keep one of them as the backup and trade the other one for a middle-tier prospect or two to add to the organizational depth. I don’t think it would do any good to send either one of them back to Triple-A, as both have shown that they can play at a high level in the big leagues. Maybe Robi could go back to Triple-A to work on his defense because it isn’t too good right now, but I just think when Doumit comes back, either one would be most valuable to us as a trade piece and we could trade one of them to a team that is desperate for catching (or even as a backup catcher) in return for some prospects to plug into the system. Just my thoughts.
I was sort of being facetious with the ‘fresh, quality goods’ statement. As spot starters, and even possibly potential Ronnie Paulinos, I know the return value of these players.
Of course, the fact that patthatt jumped to his guns so quickly makes him look like the worlds biggest fucking douche. So good job on that. What do you mean, ‘if he is used as a catcher’? If Neal has any brains (and he does), he’d keep Doumit at catcher. All of his injuries are freak accidents unrelated to the position.
On a team like ours, the last thing we need is a lot of decent players at one position. We…errr…kinda need a short stop. A prospect, even…if they’re close to major league ready. I see no reason why either JJ or Diaz shouldn’t at least be shopped around.
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