Bucs Dugout: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Sports blogs for fans, by fans.
Around SBN: Fedor vs Rogers Results and Live Coverage

Ian Snell: History's greatest monster?

Gouzou2_medium  

Dejan attempts to address this weighty question in his latest Q&A :

His attitude is not at all what it is portrayed to be by so many people who write to me. You are correct about a lack of taking responsibility -- again last night, he blamed the home plate umpire for his early labors -- but there is no sign that I can see of anybody else being terribly turned off by it, certainly not to the point of distraction.

I often write that intangibles are overrated, usually referring to leadership. But the same applies the other way. All successful teams -- and you can go through Pirates history for plenty of evidence -- have players who are quirky, out of bounds, irritating, even downright infuriating, but they learn to deal with them. Snell is nothing close to any of those extremes. He is a kid, a big kid, but a good, big kid. And he has a very good arm.

What he needs to figure out is how to be more efficient, more aggressive early in the game. If that happens, I strongly suspect no one will mind much what he says afterward.

There are a lot of cool things about being a fan in the modern era. One of the coolest of those things is the instant access to information about virtually any aspect of a player's life, no matter how trivial. How did he pitch last night? Fire up MLB-TV. Does he have tattoos? There's a picture on Flickr. Does he like dogs, or punk bands, or 19th-century firearms? Somewhere out there is a blog interview with an answer. Does he go out drinking and chase skirts? Deadspin to the rescue!

The downside to this flood of information is that it creates a false sense of intimacy between you and the players you follow. You absorb all these facts, but the flow is only in one direction, and it's biased and incomplete in ways you're fundamentally incapable of understanding. It's easy to "know" that Ian Snell is a whiny prima donna without ever actually having any real connection to the man or any dealings with him.

I know this is kind of a crazy idea, but maybe we should leave the psychoanalysis to the professionals, and spend the time we save watching some baseball instead?

[Image by "Bouette ", released under GFDL .]

0 recs  |  Comment 26 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

More from Bucs Dugout

Around SB Nation

83-77, Game Notes

Oct 2009 from Lookout Landing - 19 comments

On Ian Snell's Front Foot

Sep 2009 from Lookout Landing - 28 comments

80-75, Game Notes

Sep 2009 from Lookout Landing - 15 comments

Brushing Up On Ian Snell

Sep 2009 from South Side Sox - 15 comments

Comments

Display:

I’ve always noticed this interesting tendency for fans to get especially personal and attribute moral failings to starting pitchers they think aren’t performing as they should. Usually they’re accused of being “gutless.” Fans threw that at Benson and Wells all the time. Duke, too, until this year. That doesn’t fit with Snell, who’s missed, what, one start his whole career? So instead he’s a serial killer or something.

Is it really that complicated? In 2007, Snell consistently threw 94-96. Now he throws 89-91. I saw some research recently, in the BP or HBT annual I think, showing that pitchers on average are at their peak at surprisingly young ages. Basically, many peak right after they get to the majors, much earlier than hitters, and go downhill from there. IOW, the Doc Gooden career trajectory. (No coke jokes, please.) Considering what pitching does to the human arm, it isn’t all that surprising. Snell was a legit #2 starter for about a year, but the stuff isn’t quite there any more. He’ll probably be a decent #4 for some time if he learns to keep after hitters and not turn every single 1-2 count into a full count, like he did yesterday. But I don’t see what that has to do with him being an asshole, assuming he really is.

by WTM on Jun 18, 2009 5:30 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

It seems like he starts a game throwing in the low 90’s but after the first couple innings he starts to dial it up a bit. In lastnight’s game Ian even hit 95 and 96. Is it just he is trying to be too fine with his pitches at the beginning of a game because it seems like Ian gives up most of his runs in the first 3 innings as well.

Yes, I do spoon with my bat. I named it Jack. -Freddy Sanchez

by gorillakilla34 on Jun 18, 2009 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That was my impression too from watching him pitch, but check out his Fangraphs page. His average fastball velocity has declined, but not too much — his peak was 92.8 MPH, and he’s at 91.6 MPH this year.

I think a more likely culprit is his slider. When he was going well, that pitch was a huge plus for him, but for whatever reason — command? batters not chasing it any more? — it just hasn’t been working well for him. Snell has gone back to throwing a curveball in place of a slider, though, and maybe he needs to refine it a bit more.

by shayborg on Jun 19, 2009 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

For the record:

I expanded my post because it looked and felt skinny to me. This was after WTM’s comment, but before anybody else’s, and I didn’t see WTM’s comment before I did it (I’m going to read it now).

by Vlad on Jun 18, 2009 5:42 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Spring Training Story

You’re right, Vlad, about the one way relationship. I went to spring training this year bent on getting my wife’s Jack Wilson batting practice jersey signed for her. I waited around with one other guy for an hour and finally caught Jack in his car. Felt like I’ve known him for years as a result of my wife, He signed the jersey, but I came away from it thinking what you just said. We’re so used to him laughing and joking around I was disappointed when he wasn’t like that…

by God Loves on Jun 18, 2009 8:58 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Maybe it's just me but...

Living close to Chicago and watching all of the Cub games I’ve grown accustomed to arrogant, obnoxious ballplayers such as Zambrano, Soriano, Sosa, and others so that I don’t think of Snell as a malcontent or trouble maker. Anything he does pales in comparison to this triumverate and so I don’t notice anything about him that I dislike except his inconsistency on the mound which I think can be worked out. He seems to have the requisite skills and moderately even temperment necessary to succeed and I only hope that we keep him and not make some of the rumered trades because I don’t think we’ll get a fair amount of talent in return for him. I still think Ian will prove to be a valuable asset to our staff and I hope he is given the opportunity to prove me correct.

by Illinois Pirate Fan on Jun 19, 2009 12:24 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

"big kid"

He’s how old now?

by bucdaddy on Jun 19, 2009 1:40 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Thank you.

Maturity, consistency and accountability. Three things for him to work on, aside from the actual pitching. He’s 27…will be 28 around Halloween. Some of those things should already be occurring. None of us are without fault. OTOH, I’m not getting paid a few million dollars a year for what I do, either. If Ian was obnoxious…he’d probably have burned every bridge in Pittsburgh by now…and indications from DK are that he’s not a clubhouse problem…and I will take DK’s word for it, since he sees Snell every day.

I still reserve the right to use the term Sybil, however, as we never know whether we have good Ian or bad Ian (pitching-wise) on the mound, until it’s too late.

by Thunder on Jun 19, 2009 2:55 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Some people are "big kids" all their life.

Look at Rube Waddell, for example. A quote about him from Lee Allen, by way of example:

He began 1903 sleeping in a firehouse in Camden, New Jersey, and ended it tending bar in a saloon in Wheeling, West Virginia. In between those events he won 22 games for the Philadelphia Athletics, played left end for the Business Men’s Rugby Football Club of Grand Rapids, Michigan, toured the nation in a melodrama called The Stain of Guilt, courted, married and became separated from May Wynne Skinner of Lynn, Massachusetts, saved a woman from drowning, accidentally shot a friend through the hand, and was bitten by a lion.

He played marbles with children in the street for hours at a time. He took off running after every fire truck he saw. He worked several offseasons as an alligator wrestler. He habitually changed into his uniform while walking from the dugout to the pitcher’s mound, much to the amusement of the crowd.

And none of it stopped him from being a damn fine pitcher.

by Vlad on Jun 19, 2009 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

IIRC

Bill James sort of semisuggested Rube was … I know this word gets overused now, probably to the consternation of many mental health professionals, but to put it bluntly that Rube was mentally retarded. In the first Historical Abstract he wrote something to the effect that if Rube were a young man today he’d be limited to pitching “a rubber-tipped javelin in the Special Olympics.” There’s a big difference between that and being an immature hot-head.

But yes, a lot of men his age are immature, and being in a coddled sports environment certainly doens’t help them grow up. What he seems to need is a good, swift kick in the ass.

by bucdaddy on Jun 19, 2009 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

So now you made snap judgments about the character of TWO guys you don't know.

One of whom has been dead for nearly a hundred years.

I’m certainly glad I took the time to write this post. :P

by Vlad on Jun 19, 2009 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The phrase “chasing skirts” isn’t used enough these days, thanks for trying to bring it back.

I made most of my life decisions at a Foghat concert... I stand by them.

by Chester J Lampwick on Jun 19, 2009 11:19 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

That phrase

has never been out of use in my house.

Of course, my GF seems to have tired of it.

Free your ass and your mind will follow.

by cocktailsfor2 on Jun 19, 2009 8:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

To clarify

in reference to her.

Free your ass and your mind will follow.

by cocktailsfor2 on Jun 19, 2009 8:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Your gf chases skirts?

You lead an interesting, if comewhat complicated, life.

by bucdaddy on Jun 20, 2009 9:17 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

We tend to give a pass to quirky or arrogant players who are . . . you know, actually good. I doubt Snell has changed that much from the person he was in 2007. Bonds’ ego and arrogance were of little concern to Pirate fans while he was earning MVPs with the Bucs.

Manny in 2008 seemed to commit the ultimate clubhouse no-no of deliberately tanking, but I’m willing to bet players probably get more annoyed about players dogging it or playing selfishly than players just shooting their mouths.

by chicos_pants on Jun 19, 2009 1:08 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, well, you know, that’s just, like, your opinion, man.

I'm droppin' flava, my behavior is hereditary--but my technique is very necessary.

by phillybucco on Jun 19, 2009 2:15 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Agree about the analysis. One thing that I found interesting is that everybody thought Paul Potts is a great character because he doesn’t look attractive and can sing well. He then said, paraphrased, that talent show was his only hope of getting away from his life with his salesman job and his wife and his kids.

One thing about Snell… Snell was never supposed to be a major league starter until we had serious starting pitcher issues. He did alright in his first year, very well in his second, and has been a stopgap starter since then. Pretty much what he was projected to be.

weak-hitting corner outfielder in coffee league baseball

by Bukanier on Jun 19, 2009 2:52 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

ive met alot of the pirates after games and at different functions, but none were ever nicer than snell was. he was so nice to all the fans and signed autographs for probably like an hour.
the image of him as a cancer has always bothered me, so thanks for this post vlad.

fee fie foh fum. i think i smell the scent of a placenta.

by omar moreno on Jun 19, 2009 3:14 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

You're separating personal Snell and professional Snell

If we can’t form opinions about guys from what we read from blogs and beat writers, we all might as well just applaud politely and talk like we’re at a golf match.

by azibuck on Jun 19, 2009 3:46 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

It depends on what you're reading.

Is it OK to dislike Ramon Castro because he got arrested for raping that girl at the William Penn? Sure.
Is it OK to dislike Ozzie Guillen because Jay Mariotti doesn’t like him? Not so much…

Base your opinions on facts, not on other people’s impressions (or representations of their impressions).

by Vlad on Jun 19, 2009 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think we're basing

our opinions of Snell pretty much on Snell’s words and Snell’s actions.

by bucdaddy on Jun 20, 2009 9:19 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The only reason I like Ozzie Gullen

actually, is because the name he called Mariotti. Ozzie and I think along the same line in that regard.

Yes, I do spoon with my bat. I named it Jack. -Freddy Sanchez

by gorillakilla34 on Jun 21, 2009 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to the SB Nation blog about Pittsburgh Pirates.
Start posting about the Pirates »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recent FanPosts

Small
Pittsburgh Proud
Small
Pirates rotation next year
Small
Rich Harden
20090612mf_fleury_cup_500hp_small
JJ Hardy traded to the Twins!
101_0170_small
Lot of Pent Up News from World Series No Fly Zone
3dacrssi_small
Let's say we didn't trade Freddy...
18470r_small
Ex-Pirate Enrique Wilson is apparently a real sleazeball
Remer_small
What you can expect from Aki
Pitt20_small
Akinori Iwamura is Officially A Pirate
20090612mf_fleury_cup_500hp_small
Iwamura on his way to the Pirates?

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

FanShots

Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.

Recent FanShots

VV, Hacker, Lerud Off 40 Man
Kevin Polcovich honored
My Thoughts on the Iwamura Trade
Rich Hill Is A Free Agent
Anyone for Brian Buscher
Atlanta's Offseason Needs May included Trading for Matt Capps
Shortstop – Jack Wilson, Pittsburgh and Seattle Wilson won’t win a Gold Gl...
Freddy Sanchez re-ups with Giants
Pirates name Carlos Garcia 1B coach/Infield Instructor
Pirates Claim Justin Thomas off Waivers from M's

+ New FanShot All FanShots >

SPONSORS


Managers

Charlie_small Charlie