Trade Ian Snell?

by GTrain on Jun 2, 2009 11:03 AM EDT Comment 35 comments

First of all I'm not really sure what we can get for a guy with a crappy attitude who leads the NL in walks and losses AND our minor league system isn't exactly teeming over with SP. At this point, when we chalk up #17 and the selling starts, I'm not sure I would be devastated by Vazquez or Gorzo (or someone we get in another trade later) taking Ian's starts. Hopefully Lincoln's ready by 2010?

However on the plus side, he is young, healthy, and has good stuff. He is making $3.2 million this year, and 4.25 next year, with team options for 2011 and 2012 that I doubt would be picked up. Thus while not dirt cheap he is more than a half season rental and if he ever turned it around, is under contract another 2 years. The guy would probably benefit from a change of scenery at this point.

With a lot of teams looking for pitching at the deadline, and everyone wanting a kings ransom for top tier guys (Peavy, Oswalt, Bedard, Lee). Nobody really wants to pay anymore after the Bedard, Texiera and other trades showed the value of young, controlled talent. Something that was magnified by the economy. There could be a strong market for mid level guys, as long as GM's don't price them out of the trade market.

Snell would make the most sense for a team that needs SP and something else we can offer in a package. For instance, if there were a long term injury to Reyes, or Delgado isn't coming back. Snell and Jack/ Adam to the Mets. However, I hear they don't like Adam or his salary, but that could change quickly if he heats up. They committed a lot to Perez and another big contract also makes Snell less appealing. Same goes for any team that needs SP and then either CF/SS/2B. I don't particularly see the Mets happening for financial reasons, but they could afford it if they needed to and any further injuries might do it.

A trade that I think makes a lot of sense for both sides is Nyjer and Snell to San Diego for a package prospects that is good, but not a ridiculous asking price. Particularly if they move Peavy/ Young first and have a clearer idea of what their system looks like. Nyjer can cover ground in Petco at a price they'll love. He isn't hitting homers anywhere, so if it has any affect on his offense it would be positive, given all that real estate for base hits to drop in. They aren't typical buyers in a trade market but Snell is a would definitely benefit from a pitchers park, so he is more valuable to them. He gives them a live arm SP to plug in if they move Young or Peavy, at a much cheaper price than Peavy, and 2 mil less than Young. Nyjer sweetens the team for a team looking to keep payroll down and juuuuuuust might be in the wild card hunt, so they can continue to field a competitive MLB team.

Just wanted to float the idea out there of packaging a talented young SP with a team friendly contract and another trade chip. Anyone else have scenarios they think are realistic?

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of the managing editor (Charlie) or SB Nation. FanPosts are written by Bucs Dugout readers.

0 recs | Comment 35 comments |

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Snell

Everyone is looking for pitching, but with that said, I doubt that NH will trade Snell at his low value even if we do have a sell-off.

Look at Duke as an example. Three months ago we would not have gotten anything at all for him. He definitely has value now. Do we trade him now since he has value? That’s the idea, trade them once they have value built.

I think we are more likely to see Snell get sent to AAA than be traded; but even more likely he will stay where he is. If he turns it around he will be traded. If not we’ll keep him. In the short term (next 2 months) it’s probably more likely that Duke would be traded than Snell, but I don’t think Neal has the guts to pull that trigger. Duke will be expensive next year if he keeps it up.

What happens to open up a spot for McCutchen? My guess is Andy trade, Moss platoon at first, McCutchen to the bigs. Moss needs to show power before the end of the year or he’s destined to be a 4th outfielder in the future.

FWIW.

by God Loves on Jun 2, 2009 11:21 AM EDT reply actions

Snell

I meant Adam trade (not Andy)

by God Loves on Jun 2, 2009 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions

whew! you had me worried there! ;^D

by Pensburgh Pirates on Jun 3, 2009 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions

July

What if he is showing improvement and looks better at the deadline?

McLouth is The Trouth

by GTrain on Jun 2, 2009 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions

The next time he looks better for any period of time I would trade him, I do agree with that, GTrain. When my wife asks me who is pitching, all I have to say is “the painful one” and she knows exactly who I’m talking about…

by God Loves on Jun 2, 2009 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions

We traded Oliver Perez when he was even younger (and he then had more value than Snell at this point), and didn’t get very much in return. The offer would have to be really good, because Snell at least has the potential to his fortunes around.

I also don’t like the general idea of selling very low like this.

by ddff22 on Jun 2, 2009 11:23 AM EDT reply actions

didn't get much?

we got xavier nady and roberto hernandez if i remember correctly.

they both played pretty well with us

I GOT MY STREET BUZZ BEFORE I GOT MY PEACH FUZZ

by omar moreno on Jun 2, 2009 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions

No, Hernandez went the other way. It was Perez and Hernandez for Nady.

http://www.whygavs.com
http://mlb.fanhouse.com

by whygavs on Jun 2, 2009 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions

We gave up not only Perez and Hernandez...

…but also Hernandez’s two comp picks in the draft, which really hurt.

We got taken to the cleaners in that deal.

by Vlad on Jun 2, 2009 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions

dang i didn't know about the picks. that is actually pretty rough

I GOT MY STREET BUZZ BEFORE I GOT MY PEACH FUZZ

by omar moreno on Jun 3, 2009 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions

Picks #42 and #77 in the 2007 draft.

The Mets used 42 on Eddie Kunz (oops!) and 77 on Scott Moviel.

Kunz is a college reliever taken in the hope that he’d move quickly – he’s looking pretty marginal at this point. Moviel is a solid SP prospect (and a frickin’ giant – 6’10"!), currently sidelined after offseason knee surgery. The best current prospect taken in the vicinity of either pick was probably Jordan Zimmerman, who’s striking out a batter an inning in Washington’s rotation. There are also some guys who already look like total busts, such as Ryan Dent (bat-first college 2B, with a career pro line of .201/.296/.321).

by Vlad on Jun 3, 2009 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions

Put Him in the Bullpen

I’d rather we move him to the bullpen to see if he can straighten himself out. He seems to be able to focus for short periods of time but can’t keep it together for many innings at a time. Pitching in the minors won’t help him much. He needs to face big league hitters.

by zogger on Jun 2, 2009 12:21 PM EDT reply actions

I don't think it's mechanics like they claim Duke's problem was...

It’s all in his head. I think he needs to be sent down to get his mind right and confidence back. He needs a reality check to show him where he will wind up if he doesn’t step back and take a deep breath when facing adversity instead of snapping and melting down. I don’t think the bullpen is a good option for him because he gets stronger ( for Ian anyway) the more pitches he throws. He usually allows the most runs in the first few innings he pitches. They definetly shouldn’t sell low on him in a trade either.

So you think 25 percent of the world is retarded!? Yea, totally. Atleast 25 percent. Well lets do a sample. There are 4 of us and you're retarded. Thats 25 percent. -South Park; Mystery of the Urinal Deuce.

by gorillakilla34 on Jun 3, 2009 12:48 AM EDT up reply actions

That is why the Bullpen is a good idea

I agree that I don’t think it is his mechanics. Rather he needs to learn to get his head into the game RIGHT AWAY! The bullpen will make him do that.

by zogger on Jun 3, 2009 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions

and replace him with who?

is the team better with gorzo or VV getting the ball every fifth day?

by johnnycuff on Jun 3, 2009 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions

At this point I would say yes

He is almost a guaranteed loss unless the offense rallies to save him like they did Sunday vs Mets. You definetly cant expect the Pirates offense to score 5 runs to save Snell every game he screws up. He has pitched good in 2 games this year, his win v Atlanta and the loss v Milwaukee, thats it. They need to send him to AAA or like Zogger said send him to the bullpen for awhile. Letting him get blasted every game he pitches while passing blame on everything but himself isn’t doing anyone any good.

by gorillakilla34 on Jun 3, 2009 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions

Gorz hasn't pitched well this year.

3.5 BB/9 at AAA. Unless he can pick it up, his upside at this point is probably what Snell’s giving us right now.

by Vlad on Jun 3, 2009 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions

naw…bring Brad Lincoln up NOW!

by mspirate on Jun 3, 2009 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions

Sure, why not?

Promoting a guy with ten whole starts in the upper minors usually turns out great, doesn’t it?

Keerist. We have clubs at Altoona and Indy for a reason, you know.

by Vlad on Jun 3, 2009 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions

it did for lincecum

NFL- Vikings,Lions,Texans,Bills Adrian Peterson!
MLB-Rays,Marlins,Reds,Twins Evan Longoria
NBA-T-Wolves,Cavliiers,Warriors,Bobcats Lebron James!
NHL-Wild,Penguins Sidney Crosby!
NCAA-Gophers,Gators,Longh orns,ND Tim Tebow!
all in the order in which i root for 1st

by RaysOfHope on Jun 4, 2009 12:31 AM EDT up reply actions

thank you

by mspirate on Jun 4, 2009 4:21 AM EDT up reply actions

Lincecum had a 0.29 ERA in AAA, and 13.4 K/9.

The two aren’t even remotely comparable.

by Vlad on Jun 4, 2009 8:44 AM EDT up reply actions

Trading low is almost always a bad idea.

If you want to move a SP right now, you should be talking about Duke or Maholm, not Snell.

by Vlad on Jun 2, 2009 1:23 PM EDT reply actions

I came across this guy’s story. He was in Indy watching the Indians play Pawtucket and met Littlefield. He’s a scout for the Cubs now. Ouch.

http://mvn.com/pittsburghlumberco/

McLouth is The Trouth

by GTrain on Jun 2, 2009 1:38 PM EDT reply actions

A little payback for the Ramirez trade, no doubt.

by Vlad on Jun 2, 2009 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions

I'd have to agree with Vlad:

Now is the worst possible time to trade Snell. Instead, we should wait until/if he has some good back-to-back-back outings and then find a club like the Mets who are in the division race and have injuries to several of their key starters. Then, we might be able to package a deal that includes Adam LaRoche as well as Snell for some of their valuable prospects.

by Illinois Pirate Fan on Jun 2, 2009 3:13 PM EDT reply actions

I doubt back to back outings will change his value much if at all

Despite his problems, he’s talented, young and a pitcher. If he were to have almost all high quality outings from now to the trade deadline his stock would probably be pretty high, but what are the chances of that happening?

by ol Pete on Jun 3, 2009 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions

I guess if we want to use that theory

maybe we ought to be shopping Duke right now. A lot of posters were down on him last year as much as they are on Snell now and I imagine Duke has more value now then he did last season or than Snell does now. The troops might rebel though if once a pitcher starts going good, he gets transferred to the trade block.

by WestCoastBuc on Jun 3, 2009 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions

We probably should.

He looks better than he is right now, with our defense behind him, and we could probably get very good value at the deadline.

by Vlad on Jun 3, 2009 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions

I wondered about this earlier ...

I agree with the talk above about puting Snell in the BP. If he can’t get it together there, than a trip to AAA.

But Duke, I think he’s trade bait. I thought this from the start of the season, because both he and Snell haven’t been able to put more than one good season together.

Like Vlad says, you’ve got to sell him high. If however, they make it past the deadline, and he’s still on the team, I’d like to see him locked up on a 4 year contract, like Maholm got. I realize it’s a risk given his history, but he’s still a good pitcher, with more upside potential than Maholm, IMO.

If we did trade him, we’re more likely to reel in a 3A stud whose a year from being the #1 on the Pirate rotation, or a good SS, or some more good A+/2A prospects to enrichen our minors with.

He holds IMO more value OTB than anyone else we have to offer.

by Pensburgh Pirates on Jun 3, 2009 6:32 PM EDT reply actions

Why in the world would Duke be trade bait when what we are looking for is starting pitching?? That makes no sense. Duke isn’t going anywhere. McLouth was one thing (and that was a bit shocking), but my jaw would drop to the floor if we traded Duke.

by mspirate on Jun 4, 2009 4:22 AM EDT up reply actions

Because:

1) He’s not as good as he’s looked so far this year.
2) We can get more than he’s worth in return for him.
3) The performance of this year’s team is ultimately irrelevant, when considered against the long view.

by Vlad on Jun 4, 2009 8:45 AM EDT up reply actions

If only

I wish we would/could trade him. He has the talent to be a very good ML pitcher. But hes missing two major components. Balls and Brains. Joe Kerrigan has convinced the other starters of the necessity of pitching inside consistently. Ian just won’t do it.

by Jake B on Jun 3, 2009 11:29 PM EDT reply actions

Dominating Fastball

Where has that gone? He seems to have lost that fastball that would tie up hitters and blow them away. We see it maybe once a month, but thats not consistent enough for us to keep him in the rotation any longer. I wish him all the luck in the world to rediscover his stuff, but i think its going to be with a team looking for middle of the rotation help, like the Philies, Rangers or White Sox, plus I also think you will see Grabow moved with Snell

by bobbyb0102 on Jun 3, 2009 11:52 PM EDT reply actions

I believe if Snell has another horrendous outing, Charlie Morton, the top pitcher we aquired from the Braves, will get the first shot at his spot in the rotation. Working with Kerrigan, I think Morton could be a good middle-of-the-rotation guy.

by mspirate on Jun 4, 2009 4:24 AM EDT reply actions