Is the McLouth trade the start of domino effect?
Here's a good piece on Bob Smizik's blog about what effect the McLouth trade may have on the rest of the team. I know a lot of you don't really like a lot of Smizik's work, but this articles raises some great questions about the direction of this Pirate team. Who's next in line after McLouth? Is it time to blow the whole thing up? Here's the piece.
Personally, I don't disagree with many of the points Smizik makes. We could get A LOT of good, yound prospects back for Wilson, LaRoche, Sanchez and Doumit. The only part I disagree with is trading Doumit. While there's no doubt that Doumit would probably yield us the greatest return in a trade, Doumit could be the one piece you keep from the current club that could be part of the next winning team, in my opinion. Doumit isn't exactly young at 27, but he's definitely not old, either, and he's just now coming into his own with his breakout season last year (he could've broken out a lot sooner if had not been for Jim Tracy's obsession with Ronnie Paulino. Terrible.) Also, Doumit is this team's only power source right now. JJ and Robi have filled in nicely, but honestly, I think they are playing over their heads right now. They are starting to come back to earth a little bit, and they have no power whatsoever, combining for a whopping 2 HR. I think one day they could be starters in the majors, but not anytime soon. Also, this year's first rd pick, C Tony Sanchez, is a good player and could be in the majors within a couple of years, but he is no sure thing. If his bat doesn't come around, he won't be the answer at catcher, either, as scouts have said he will be a career back-up catcher if he doesn't improve offensively. Unless the Pirates expect Alvarez to be up next year, Moss to turn it around, and Pearce to have a major power resurgence, where is our power going to come from in 2010? I have no problem with trading Wilson, LaRoche and Sanchez because they are older, they will bring back some quality prospects (especially if teams are desperate for them), and most importantly, they won't be around with the next winning Pirates team. I think Doumit could be. I think 2011 is a realistic goal to be competitive team again. We're not going to compete this year, we're not going to compete next year, but by 2011, with the prospects that we have, we could be very close in 2011. I know the Pirates are going to listen to offers for every single player on our roster, and Huntington will pull the trigger on any trade if the package is too good to refuse, but I think we should keep Doumit because a power-hitting, switch-hitting catcher is very hard to come by nowadays, and he has a good chance to be a part of the next good Pirate team in a couple of years.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of the managing editor (Charlie) or SB Nation. FanPosts are written by Bucs Dugout readers.
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If they get a good enough return I say trade anyone.....
With the exception of Andy and Cutch. I would hate to see Doumit go but if they get a great return then I wish him luck and will pull for him on which ever team he lands. I personally think they might want to sell high on Duke right now too. There is very little starting pitching available right now. Ofcourse they could look stupid if he keeps that pace up but I just think ol’ Zack is due for a drop off.
"So you think 25 percent of the country is retarded?! Yea. Atleast 25 percent. Well lets so a sample. There are 4 of us an you're retarded. Thats 25 percent." Southpark; Mystery of the Urinal Deuce
Make up your mind.
In this post you state (emphasis mine):
… We could get A LOT of good, yound [sic] prospects back for Wilson, LaRoche, Sanchez and Doumit. …
… I have no problem with trading Wilson, LaRoche and Sanchez because they are older, …
Yet only TWO DAYS AGO, in another thread (emphasis mine):
Jack Wilson is very valuable to this team. I see that. We can’t get rid Jack, in my opinion. Adam LaRoche? No. Tell me how constantly choking in RBI situations and only hitting in the second half of the season is valuable to our team. There’s no way. mspirate on Jun 20, 2009 1:46 PM CDT
.
.
You can’t have it both ways. That is, unless it’s convenient. Right, mspirate?
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Jun 22, 2009 9:06 AM EDT reply actions 3 recs
Yeah, sorry, that did sound contradictory. I still don’t think we SHOULD trade Jack. We don’t have a replacement for him so, yeah, I don’t think we can afford to. But maybe management’s thinking is that they can get a SS prospect from one of the many players we are going to shop (LaRoche, Sanchez, Grabow, Wilson, heck…anybody really) and then they can be at ease with trading him. I was just saying here that it wouldn’t bother me if we traded him because he’s older and he won’t be a part of the next winning Pirate team. It doesn’t mean we should or can afford to trade him right now, but it’s not my decision and maybe we get a SS prospect in a trade later. I just wouldn’t lose any sleep if we traded Wilson is all I was saying.
No, it didn't SOUND contradictory, it WAS contradictory.
Perhaps you could put a Jack Wilson baseball card in the spokes of your bike. That way we can hear it when you backpedal.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Jun 22, 2009 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Wassamattah? Sore that someone called you on your B.S.?
yawn
Your opinion of me matters even less than your fallacious arguments.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Jun 22, 2009 10:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Meanie....
I bet his dad could beat your dad up!
"So you think 25 percent of the country is retarded?! Yea. Atleast 25 percent. Well lets so a sample. There are 4 of us an you're retarded. Thats 25 percent." Southpark; Mystery of the Urinal Deuce
by gorillakilla34 on Jun 23, 2009 2:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Problem
Doumit is the only one of those guys who will definitely fetch a high level power prospect. Generally, teams will not trade a solid power prospect for an older SS with a good glove. I think Sanchez and/or LaRoche might fetch said prospect, but it depends how badly another team wants either of them and what the team has in its farm system.
by CarlWeathersMustache on Jun 22, 2009 9:38 AM EDT reply actions
I can't describe how thrilled I am...
…to see Smizik perpetuate the nudnik meme that we didn’t get top talent for Bay or Nady.
I just want to say
that “nudnik” doesn’t get used nearly often enough.
by bucdaddy on Jun 22, 2009 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Hear, hear!
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Jun 22, 2009 8:54 PM EDT up reply actions
We need to move Maholm/Duke
They are the pieces that are a valuable commodity. Package them with a Wilson/Sanchez/LaRoche and you could get a bonafide major leage ready player. Think back to when we traded for Zane Smith. There was a guy in the trade who was major league ready – his name was Moises Alou….
I don't think we could.
Teams just aren’t willing to trade guys like Hanson or Price nowadays, full stop.
by Vlad on Jun 22, 2009 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Texas Rangers
the rangers could use a starting pitcher like Maholm… and ive read on here before people think there the best trade partner…what if we packages Maholm/ Ad LaRoche/ and maby a Neil Walker for Chris Davis, and one for there 2 top pitching prospects in Derek Holland LHP or Neftali Feliz RHP and 2 other mid level prospects… Chris Davis has 40 HR potential and is still only 23 yrs old…but is struggling this year badly and they already have there first basemen of the future in Justin Smoak. imagine having Alvarez and Davis for years to come.. im just saying you might think maholm laroche and walker would be too much but in order to get top prospects you have to give alot up thats just the way i feel… LaRoche by himself might get you 2 decent prospects but if you package him with a Maholm or Duke you will get alot more back in return i feel.
I would like to deal with Texas, though.
Not sure if they’d even part with him for any of our trade chips, but I do like RHP Neil Ramirez.
I'm starting to change my opinion on Ramirez, though.
Especially now that I see his 5.93 BB/9 last year— a little troubling.
Right now, Walker has no trade value.
If he can’t hit at AAA, no team is going to see him as more than maybe a glove-first UT IF. And there are literally dozens of those available as minor-league FAs every offseason.
I can see Texas having interest in Maholm, but I think they’re a poor fit for LaRoche. Our best bet there is probably the Giants.
Davis is another good example...
…of why minor league K rates are a concern.
27.6% K for his minor league career… and he’s got 188 K (36.6%), a .247 BA, and a .297 OBP in 514 ML AB. The K rate increased with promotion to the majors, and as a result he’s struggling to keep his head above water, even though he’s got obvious MLB power.
What about the pressure for the NYY?
They have a huge investment/huge stadium/huge roadblock in the Sox. I wouldnt put anything past them.
Without overvaluing our SP, we do have nice bargaining chips….
If George Gets In One Of His Moods
Anything could happen.
That being said, the Yankees’ typical mistake is that they overpay for aging all-hit/no-glove types. Who do the Pirates’ have who match that description? Even George Steinbrenner should be able to see that Adam Laroche is a below average first baseman. Steinbrenner goes for the over-rated all-star, and the Pirates’ don’t really have any of those.
by Androgen Jar Jimmy on Jun 22, 2009 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions
All hit, no glove...
Delwyn Young? And he’s not really “all-hit”…
True Blue Jazz
Bucco Ball
I'm on Twitter
RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
Young is a role player
the Dodgers gave him away for an organizational player. He is a good pinch hitter. Why are we making him into Dave Parker?
With the way the team has been for the past 16 years...
We’ll take any positive outlook we can. If someone is batting over .350, we’re gonna love him til he sucks.
If Malholm or Duke goes to Texas....
we can get a number of good players. That is one deep ass system. You could take any number of guys outside the top 10. Easily be a top 5 player in another system.
Pathetic
You guys are pathetic. Don’t any of you have aspirations to win anytime in the next three decades? Or are you content to keep trading players heading into arbitration for players 3 years away from the majors? The way all of you talk, you would think we are running a minor league club here.
Troll
You build a team through the draft and smart baseball trades! Our higher level minor league teams suck because of crappy drafts and marginal return for our players through trades. We trade our valuable commodities now for several high upside players. When the high upside players mature, we can move depth for immediate impact players. If we had done this all along, we wouldn’t have 16 losing seasons.

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