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News Roundup: Pirates Looking at Pitchers for Draft

Here's my test drive of SB Nation's new clippings feature, which makes these link posts incredibly easy...

Pirates putting premium on pitching - Pittsburgh Tribune-Review

The Trib reports that the Pirates are looking at college pitchers Kyle Gibson of Missouri and Mike Minor of Vanderbilt, as well as indy-league pitcher and former Missouri starter Aaron Crow, for the fourth pick in the draft next week. The top hitter in the draft, North Carolina's Dustin Ackley, probably won't be available, but I wouldn't say never on that. The Mariners are supposed to like Ackley, but, as someone around here (Vlad, maybe?) pointed out a couple weeks ago, M's GM Jack Zduriencik could be unpredictable in the draft when he was the scouting director of the Brewers. For example, the Brewers' selection of Matt LaPorta in the 2007 draft was a bit of a surprise. If the Mariners don't take Ackley with the second pick, he could fall to the Pirates.

Padres will settle for second choice with their first pick in the draft

The Padres, picking at #3, could take Ackley, Crow, Minor, or either of a pair of Georgia high schoolers, outfielder Donavan Tate or pitcher Zach Wheeler.

Milwaukee Brewers Release Jorge Julio

Speaking of the Brewers, they've released reliever Jorge Julio, who had a 7.79 ERA for them. The Pirates need relief depth, and Neal Huntington favors hard throwers; I haven't read anything linking Julio with Pittsburgh, but he could do worse for himself than to sign a minor league deal with the Bucs. 

American Chronicle / Power Catcher's Roots in Hockey

Nyjer Morgan isn't the only player in the Pirates organization with a hockey background. 

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Jack Z.

I think that was me Charlie. I was only saying that his track record — Fielder, Braun, Laporta, Lawrie — shows that he REALLY likes power hitters, and Ackley’s not supposed to be much of one. Leads me think he might take a power arm instead. Of course, everything I read says Ackley to the Mariners, and I think he’ll probably take him by default. Don’t see any pitcher to really get excited about, aside from Strasburg.

by bolton on Jun 3, 2009 6:14 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Another selection that Jack Z made that was widely questioned was JJ Hardy

He was viewed as a defense first guy whose ceiling was an average SS.

by ol Pete on Jun 3, 2009 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Jim Tracy already...

loading up the undercarriage of the buses in Denver.

http://www.denverpost.com/rockies/ci_12491827

by Thunder on Jun 3, 2009 8:11 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

You called it!

Free your ass and your mind will follow.

by cocktailsfor2 on Jun 3, 2009 9:13 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think I miss him...

…even less than Joggin’ Ronny.

by Vlad on Jun 3, 2009 9:19 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Heh.

After I actually read the article, it’s so cute that Paige thinks Tracy succeeded in Los Angeles.

by Vlad on Jun 3, 2009 9:25 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah

if by “succeed” you mean stage a mutiny.

by bucdaddy on Jun 3, 2009 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wasn't me on the Jack Z thing...

…but it’s certainly true enough. LaPorta was a surprise, and Fielder was an even bigger one – he was regarded as a huge reach at the time.

I’ve heard that the Padres are big on Minor, which is fine with me. I think he’s topped out as a #3, and we should be hunting bigger game than that.

If you want a darkhorse for new bullpen acquisitions, the Pirates were interested in Mike Koplove over the offseason, but he elected to try and make his hometown Phillies instead. He just opted out of his minor league deal after they didn’t call him up by June 1, and he’s been great at AAA: 1.14 ERA, 1.10 WHIP, 11.4 K/9.

by Vlad on Jun 3, 2009 9:05 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

koplove

I was thinking the same thing. I’ve always liked him — not as a top reliever, but as a fairly reliable guy to have around.

by bolton on Jun 3, 2009 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I've never heard that Fielder was a big surprise or a huge reach

The Athletics were jubilant that he was picked because they expected to get what they viewed as the treasure of the draft, Nick Swisher. I’ve read that the Royals choice came down to Fielder and Greinke and they went with the latter.

Fielder was considered the best power hitter in the draft with good secondary hitting skills. The choice by the Brewers was questioned because of Fielder’s weight problems and similarity to his father and because the Brewers had a couple well regarded first base prospects, Corey Hart and Brad Nelson. A common view was that he should have been taken by an American League team.

by ol Pete on Jun 3, 2009 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Look at BA's pre-draft coverage:

They had him ranked 24th going into the draft, and their June 4 mock had him going 22nd overall, to the Indians. That’s a pretty big jump.

Interestingly, Pirates senior advisor Bill Lajoie is one of the Milwaukee guys who was really pulling for Fielder at the time.

by Vlad on Jun 3, 2009 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Grabow's Jewish?!

I came across this while looking for Nyjer’s quotes. As a member of the tribe, I knew about Jewklis (we all do), as he replaced Sean Green as baseballs resident Hebrew Hammer. I knew about Braun too, but not these other guys. The fact that this award exists is admittedly funny.

It hardly rivals the Cy Young, but John Grabow was recognized back in January with the Barney Pelty Award as the Jewish pitcher of the year. He beat out Craig Breslow of the Minnesota Twins and … well, not many others.

There were 13 Jewish players in the majors last year, only 159 in history, notably the great Hank Greenberg of the 1930s and 1940s.

“There sure aren’t many,” Grabow said. “Not sure why that is.”

Among those currently playing: Youkilis, the Milwaukee Brewers’ Ryan Braun, Colorado Rockies’ Jason Marquis and Texas Rangers’ Ian Kinsler.

McLouth is The Trouth

by GTrain on Jun 3, 2009 12:06 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Jewklis?

Can I say that? I don’t want to hijack this thread, but unless shiksa and goyim are allowed to say Jewkils, I don’t think you should either. But if I can, cool, nevermind. Your post is otherwise informative and I was happy to read it (seriously).

by azibuck on Jun 3, 2009 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I keep hearing about the catcher from Boston College (Sanchez). Hope not for the first pick. I’m leaning toward Crow, but honestly don’t know the difference between he and Gibson and the others.

Any “experts” here to give us an analysis on eligible starting pitchers? Or suggestions about who should be first for us if Ackley is gone?

Also wonder if the Bucs would consider Scheppers in round 2 if he’s still available (as rumored by Keith Law).

While mentioning Law, he seems to be well hated. Is he highly regarded or just considered a hack?

Sorry for the ramble…

by God Loves on Jun 3, 2009 2:55 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

A few responses.

Law is a pretty smart guy, but a lot of people here don’t like him because he thinks Pedro is hugely overrated, and they translate that into an anti-Pittsburgh bias.

College and indy pitchers: Crow has generally strong stuff, and is very good at locating his fastball – he’s pitched well in indy ball, and in particular has shown good progress with his change. Gibson has four good pitches but no great ones, so he may not have #1 ceiling, but he’s a fairly safe bet to be at least decent. Mike Minor is a pitchable lefty with decent stuff, analogous to Maholm in his best-case scenario. Alex White has good stuff, but is inconsistent, not only game-to-game but even inning-to-inning. Scheppers has apparently gotten most of his stuff back post-surgery, but he’s had some issues with both command and control, and it’s not entirely clear whether he granted us permission to re-draft him or not. Rex Brothers has a killer fastball/slider combo, but his delivery is a little rough, and that makes some people want to waste him in the bullpen. Andy Oliver has a lot of ability but never really got into synch after his dispute with the NCAA. Mike Leake looks like a mid-rotation guy to me. Kyle Heckathorn throws hella hard, but doesn’t really know how to pitch.

If I had my pick of non-Strasburg/Ackley guys at #4, I’d take Shelby Miller, a high school righty from Texas. Heavy mid-90s fastball with life (seriously, it looks like they’re trying to hit a shot put), good curve, and supposedly some feel for the change. Among h.s. pitchers, the Pirates supposedly like Zach Wheeler (Georgia righty, good FB, slurvy breaker) and Matt Hobgood (California righty, good four-pitch mix, some command issues). Other top h.s. arms include Jacob Turner (I don’t like him – FB looks straight, command isn’t great, wants a huge bonus), Tyler Matzek (good-looking California lefty), and Matt Purke (Texas lefty, throws well but I think he’s an injury risk).

Sanchez would be a crap pick at 1, and I don’t love him at 2, though the scouting consensus would make him a good pick there. I don’t think he’s even the best catcher in the draft. Stassi’s better, and so is Myers if you want to use him behind the plate. Honestly, I’d probably rather make an upside play with Murphy or Joseph if we take a catcher at 2 and Stassi/Myers are gone.

by Vlad on Jun 3, 2009 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

KLaw hate

I dislike his “way”. It’s an often wrong, never uncertain way. He just rubs me wrong about alot of things, not just his thoughts on Pedro and Nate.

by azibuck on Jun 3, 2009 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

More KLAW hate

I hate the whole “klaw” thing. Your mama named you Keith.

I hate the whole (words deleted at Charlie’s past request) thing for Justin Smoak. I hate that Law said that Smoak was having a supremely better spring training than Pedro Alvarez, to the point that Smoak’s game was going to effect how the PBC handled Alvarez. The later admitted that he hadn’t seen (and wasn’t going to see) a single game in the Grapefruit League.

I hate the whole “Nate McLouth has had 3-4 good months in MLB, and has totally sucked the rest of the time” thing.

I hate his Alvarez is only 38th best prospect in BB, while BA has him at no. 2.

Was Bobby Bochering the name of the character played by Adam Sandler in The Waterboy? Or is he the HS 3B the PBC will overreach for with it’s 1st draft pick, per Mr. Law?

Law has a huge soap box, but doesn’t do his homework.

by WstCstBucco on Jun 3, 2009 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Law isn't the only one who liked Smoak over Pedro.

I did as well, going into the draft. It’s hardly an unreasonable position. Smoak is a switch hitter, a much better contact hitter, a better runner, and a better fielder at 1B (assuming that Pedro ends up there).

He watched Pedro a ton in college. Why should he need a handful of Grapefruit League games to change his mind?

by Vlad on Jun 3, 2009 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He watched Pedro a ton in college. Why should he need a handful of Grapefruit League games to change his mind?

Law was responding to a question on who was having a better spring training 2009 — Smoak or Alvarez. He not only said it was Smoak (a conclusive opinion formed without personal evidence), but said that Smoak’s superior spring 2009 would force the PBC to rush Alvarez through the minors. (Bzzzt – thanks for playing, Keith.)

BTW, I love Smoak too — I just don’t see the need to pump him up by dogging Alvarez.

by WstCstBucco on Jun 3, 2009 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If he was expressly asked about Smoak and Alvarez...

…then it’d be hard to avoid talking about both in comparison to one another, wouldn’t it?

by Vlad on Jun 4, 2009 8:56 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I have no idea how and when he saw Pedro

but he has a reputation for broad sweeping conclusions based on seeing someone for a couple at bats. Voros McCracken is one person who called him out on that.

by ol Pete on Jun 4, 2009 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Where Does Crow Project?

Vlad,

Does Crow have #1 ceiling?

Where does Indy ball slot compared to affliated ball? Would the Northern League, American Association and Atlantic League be a considered between AA and AAA in experience level? Likely a more complicated question than I realize. If Crow is doing well in Indy ball would that translate into being closer to MLB level?

by Mick Kraut on Jun 3, 2009 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Difficult to say.

Crow is regarded as a front-of-the-rotation type pitcher, but different people have different ideas about exactly what a #1 is. There are pitchers that I personally would consider to be #1s who have the same type of stuff that Crow is billed as having, but he’s not a transcendent, once-in-a-generation arm or anything like that.

Different independent leagues are at different levels of competition. As independent leagues go, the American Association is one of the more competitive ones – most players in that league have experience in the organized minors, and most of the better ones have played in the upper minors and/or MLB. If I were to guess, I’d say that it’s roughly equivalent to A-ball, maybe A+ in a good year.

By virtue of his time in the AA, Crow is probably about a year closer to the majors than the college juniors at the top of the first round. He’s done a lot of work this year to refine his changeup, which is often a big adjustment for pitchers entering the pros.

by Vlad on Jun 3, 2009 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Scheppers?

Assuming he granted the Pirates permission to re-draft him, I cant imagine he would still be around by the #49 supplemental pick the Pirates have…

by Mick Kraut on Jun 3, 2009 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Seems unlikely to me, as well.

Though I guess you never know. Some teams did cross him off their boards over medical concerns, but you’d have to think he’d go fairly high to one of the other clubs anyway.

by Vlad on Jun 3, 2009 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

BA has him going in the top 10

I dont have the issue in front of me but I think to KC if I recall…

by Mick Kraut on Jun 3, 2009 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Law's OK

He does a good of explaining, without talking down to his audience, why he likes/dislikes a player. Also, his take on a player is often different than the Baseball America-led consensus.

by bolton on Jun 3, 2009 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Doesn't talk down?
Mike (Pittsburgh): Why so much hate for Nate McLouth? I know he does not cover the most ground, but awful defensively? He won the Gold glove, at 5 assists, 1 DP, an only 1 error in 1300 innings in CF! And another thing, it was his first year as an every day starter! Isn’t it normal to see a dip late in the season for guys who are not use to playing that many games? I know he has never been seen as having a ton of potential by scouts, but its nice to see a guy work hard and overachieve his potential rather than all the duds who are tabbed as the next great thing.

SportsNation Keith Law: He’s awful defensively. Just accept it and move on with your life.

Well, that ain’t talking up to me.

by azibuck on Jun 3, 2009 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

translation

He was wrong about something earlier and can’t admit it.

by ol Pete on Jun 4, 2009 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Vlad pretty much nailed it IMO...

Keith Law is a smart guy. He’s Harvard Grad and got his masters at Carnegie Mellon so I don’t think he hates all things Pittsburgh. He’s definitely not a hack but his opinions due seem to diifer at times frm say a Jim Callis at BA. For what it’s worth, Callis in an ESPN chat addressed the Sanchez issue and said that he has heard from about four people that don’t believe the Pirates will select him t #4.

Again, Vlad’s breakdown of the pitchers is pretty good. The only thing I don’t agree on is his opinion on Turner. His fast touches 98 mph and is supposed to have late sink from most of the scouting reports I’ve read. It reportedly isn’t straight as Vlad has said although I can say that some of the video I saw of him I didn’t notice a whole lot of late sink.

I think our best options are HS pitcher because of the upside. I like Miller 1st – I just love his fastball potential and I think he’ll be able to consistenly hit over 100 mph with excellent movement as he fills out. After him I’m split on Turner and MAtzek with Wheeler close behind. Out of the college/Indy pitchers I like Gibson the best because of his command of 4 above average pitches and the guy just knows how to pitch. Although recent reports of his drop in velocity and sore arm have me a little concerned.

If we go bat I like Grant Green (assuming Ackley is gone). Also been reading a lot on Borchering it appears this kid has a lot of power potential tha could be interesting.

by Slick1 on Jun 3, 2009 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Don't know what's going on...

Just replied to another post up above twice and they both droped down here.

by Slick1 on Jun 3, 2009 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's very possible that Turner is better than I think.

I’ve only seen a handful of pitches on one clip. I wasn’t at all impressed by what I saw, but maybe he was just having a bad day. It happens to everybody, eventually.

That’s why the people who actually do this for a living try and see as many games as possible, and why you should probably trust their opinion over mine.

by Vlad on Jun 4, 2009 9:02 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Should PBC sign Tom Glavine?

He was waived by the Braves today after throwing 6 shutout innings in a Class A rehab assignment last night. I guess Atlanta brass didn’t like what they saw, and went with the “rip the band aid off” theory.

He’d be available for major league minimum I’m guessing. Anyone know what his physical condition at 42?

Snell is ready to be replaced in the rotation.

by WstCstBucco on Jun 3, 2009 6:48 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Nope.

We need Snell to regain his value our we’ll never be able to trade and I wouldn’t want to mess with Karstens or Ohly the way they are throwing. We are not going to win this year and Glavine is going to retire next year so it’s not a good fit. Glavine wouldn’t sign with us anyway. At this point he has nothingleft to prove, he just wants to play for a team that has a chance to win.

by Slick1 on Jun 3, 2009 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why would Tom Glavine want to play for the Pirates,

regardless of health issues?

And why would we want him?

by patthatt on Jun 3, 2009 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think Glavine is pretty much done.

We can generally get more from a high-BIP lefty than most teams, thanks to our park and D, but from what I’ve read the stuff just isn’t there anymore.

by Vlad on Jun 4, 2009 9:02 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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