Let's move Doumit
by vanslyke on Jun 5, 2009 10:25 AM EDT
33 comments
The McClouth trade was a baseball trade. When you get up to the deadline, I feel you may get less value due to time constraints. Let's say the FO wasnt actively shopping McClouth and the Braves actually kept pushing them to make the trade. In that scenario, we get what we want with no deadline pressure and we can drive the deal.
I think we may need to start shopping Doumit before the deadline. We have two catchers who have filled in admirabley and are definitely better defensively. In addition, they have both handled the pitching staff effectively. While Doumit is a "Pittsburgh kind of guy", I think he could net us a similar (maybe a touch lower) return. We really dont sacrafice much power and we gain defensively. We would also give up a player who has not made it through any season without missing a chunk of playing time. I would be all for packaging him up with a Grabow to net us a decent return for a middle infield prospect and/or power bat or both.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of the managing editor (Charlie) or SB Nation. FanPosts are written by Bucs Dugout readers.
0 recs |
33 comments
|
Email
Print
Comments
Grabow isn't going to bring much.
Either as a single player or as part of a “package”. He certainly won’t be the difference between a good prospect and a bad one in a Doumit trade.
Move Doumit to 1B
I disagrre about trading Doumit. I think we move him to 1B when LaRoche is traded. There we can leverage his hitting.
No, you can't.
Moving him to 1B is almost the exact opposite of “leveraging his hitting”.
Doumit is a special hitter by the standards of catchers, and a pedestrian hitter by the standards of first basemen. Thus, by putting Doumit at first, we reduce our advantage at two different positions, without any corresponding benefit.
If we wanted to not have Doumit catch anymore (a questionable aim in and of itself), we’d do better to trade him to another team for a 1B who’s as many runs above average at 1B as Doumit is at catcher. That would be a bad trade in terms of positional scarcity (insofar as good-hitting catchers are rarer than good-hitting first basemen), but at least we’d only be taking a hit at one position, not two.
Are you sure that it would be a bad
thing if we could trade Doumit for a 1B who is as many runs above average at 1B as Doumit is at catcher? Any thoughts on which first basemen might fit into that catagorey? It seems to me that if we did make a trade like that, we’d be getting the biggest bat, we’ve seen in these parts in a long time or at least pretty close to it.
by WestCoastBuc on Jun 5, 2009 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes, I'm sure.
Runs are runs. A 1B who’s 30 marginal runs ahead of an average 1B is giving you exactly the same benefit as a C who’s 30 marginal runs ahead of an average C. Runs are runs.
I understand that but
I understood you to say that we’d be worse off with a 1B who is 30 marginal runs ahead of the average 1B than with a C who’s 30 marginal runs ahead of the average C (to use your example) and I don’t see why. As you say runs are runs.
Also, none of this happens in a vacuum. Surely whether or not such a trade would be a good or a bad thing depends upon who plays 1B (after Adam is gone) and who’d catch if Doumit was traded.
by WestCoastBuc on Jun 5, 2009 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions
If we ended up with a hole at one position or the other...
…it’d be much easier and less expensive to find an average-to-tolerable 1B temp than an average-to-tolerable C temp, in that there a lot more of the former than of the latter. So all other things being equal, you take the guy from the left side of the defensive spectrum.
yeah moving him to first would
LITERALLY be the total opposite of leveraging his “hitting”
I GOT MY STREET BUZZ BEFORE I GOT MY PEACH FUZZ
Hang on...
Didnt he play in RF a couple of years ago?
Back when Paulino was the starting catcher.
by BlindSquirrel on Jun 7, 2009 9:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, he did.
And he looked awful out there, too. Bad reactions, bad reads, and I even saw him blow a hammy sprinting after a ball.
Not quite as bad an idea as the Jason Kendall OF experiment, but pretty close.
Sangy
was no RF either, but he played it out of respect, obligation & necessity.
But Gawd, was he awful.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Jun 7, 2009 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions
how can people even argue this??
catchers can’t hit the same way a corner outfielder can. he wouldnt stand out at that position
I GOT MY STREET BUZZ BEFORE I GOT MY PEACH FUZZ
Yes, abso-freakin-lutely...
Doumit has proven that he is not durable enough to catch 125 games/year and since he doesn’t have the requisite power to be moved to first base I don’t see him as a pivotal member of our future. Both back-ups have performed admirably and so I see no reason to keep Doumit provided we get some talent in return. I would not accept pitchers with similar expertise as Karstens or Ohlendorf nor would I accept more “prospects” of the quality of Moss. This would be an excellent opportunity to try to get someone able to immediately play first base. Perhaps, a package including LaRoche (the elder) and Doumit could return some badly-needed talent.
by Illinois Pirate Fan on Jun 5, 2009 11:42 AM EDT reply actions
heck yeah
I say move Doumit ASAP. His value is never going to get any higher
I GOT MY STREET BUZZ BEFORE I GOT MY PEACH FUZZ
he is hurt
and has not proven he can stay healthy at all. that doesn’t sound like he is at his highest value at all. The injury he suffered, could really sap his power for the rest of the year, as most wrist injuries do. I’m not so sure a team is going to pony up what he is worth, inorder to make a deal worth doing.
by jsn4219 on Jun 5, 2009 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
one more thing
doumit is a little different animal than nate. we had a blue chip prospect ready to slide into his (nate’s) spot, as well as some pretty decent outfield depth in the minors. The same can’t be said for the catching position. mclouth was dealt from a postion of strength, doumit wouldnt be. so im not so sure they are going to easily part with him anyway.
I like Robin Zone and Jam Master Jay. We just have nothing in the minors.
RIP NATE. LADIES AND GENTLEMEN...MISTER TONY PLUSH!
i like how they are playing too
jaramillio especially, but im not ready to annoint them as the catchers of the future just yet, it is only june. Never had much of a minor league track record to suggest that, so i am still skeptical
i dont care
i say trade him asap. and i didn’t say he’s at peak value, i said he’s never going to have a better value. his peak was last year, but i’m sad to say that i really don’t think this guys value will EVER improve with his history this the injury bug
I GOT MY STREET BUZZ BEFORE I GOT MY PEACH FUZZ
Look, I like JJ and Robinzon, but if we trade Doumit, I will seriously quit following the Pirates. That would just be ridiculous. We don’t have any power as it is in our lineup now besides Doumit. Doumit is one of the best young offensive catchers in baseball. If any more “surprises” happen as far as trades (meaning players who we thought were safe), then it really is about salary and not about “improving our team in the long run”. If we trade Doumit, I’m done with the Pirates.
Trade Doumit then!
So you think 25 percent of the country is retarded!? Yea, totally. Atleast 25 percent. Well lets do a sample. There are 4 of us and you're retarded. Thats 25 percent. -South Park; Mystery of the Urinal Deuce.
by gorillakilla34 on Jun 5, 2009 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Jaramillo never had a shot
Jaramillo is an example of a guy getting the most out of his opportunity. While he and Diaz are playing effectively, I may have been a bit rash to annoint them Doumit heir apparent. Lets all not forget Ronny “One Season Wonder” Paulino. He was credited as a plus defender with average bat. After his breakout season, we lost both. I do agree that Jaramillo and Diaz were borderline organizational guys when they got the call.
McClouth was at his peak for value and we had a guy pushing him. The time was right for a baseball trade. Doumit is not at his peak. Maybe Doumit is a good trade at this time next year. Then we will have a Diaz/Jaramillo precedent for 1.4 seasons to make a more strategic decision.
Doumit is really the wild card. Can he get past this and stay healthy (deja vu from this time last year) and where does he play? He has proven he can’t stay healthy even though both injuries were fluky. He is not an outfielder or 1st basemen – but I do think he could be a solid DH/backup catcher. Maybe NH could pull off something with the Tribe?
What does Doumit bring?
The guy cannot stay healthy. We have two decent catchers backing up right now. I would not make Doumit an untouchable, but I really dont know a team that woudl touch him and his penchant for injuries.
IF Ryan comes back and shows he is healthy and hits well in the short time before the trade deadline, then yes…trade him if you get a good offer. If not, you have to keep him and let him rebuild his value over the second half of the season and look at trading him during the offseason or early in 2010. Remember, it’s all about selling high.
You DO NOT move Doumit to 1B. His best value is as a C. Do you give him a start or two there to spell LaRoche and let JJ or Diaz catch…sure, but you do not make him a regular 1B even if we trade Adam.
JJ and Diaz have both show the ability to hit big league pitching and both are at least as good and probably better than Ryan defensively. Plus don’t forget that we have Lerud at AA that the organization really seems to like.
With the promotion of McCutchen, the front office started the clock on our chance to build a real contender. It’s not about this year or even next season, but start thinking about who can really help you in 2011 (Pedro Alvarez), 2012 etc. That means if you get decent offers for Ryan, Adam, Jack, Grabow….even Freddy and possibly Nyjer (remember Tabata and Hernandez are your future OFs with Cutch) then you make those deals now for guys who can help in 2011 and beyond. Hopefully in one of those deals you are able to land a legit power prospect who will go in the middle of a line up with Pedro and Tabata.
Exactly Brakeman!
That is why I like the McClouth deal. He wasnt a fixture for the future. Pitchers usually start being productive in their late 20’s and can continue through the early 30’s. Our rotation is set up nicely to compete in 2011 and 2012.
We need position players and pieces to buid around our upcoming talent. When is the last time we could get excited at the building blocks? How exciting is it to see that plan being enacted! If you ignore the previous regimes and look at what is going on in a vacuum, you see a perennial contender being built right before your eyes. Why would anyone in their right mind abandon hope!
This is all going back to Doumit. Let him stay healthy and move him this time next year.
Simple question here...
you trade Doumit…for whatever. That means you have JJ and Diaz as catchers…even performing at current levels. OK…I can live with that. What do you do though…when one of those 2 gets injured?? You pretty much expect 1 catcher injury a season if you are reasonable. Who do we bring up then??
Oh, yeah…that’s right…we don’t have any major league capable catchers below what we have in the majors right now.
Doumit is similar to McLouth in that 2008 is likely about as good as it gets. So in theory I like the idea of a trade if there is decent return.
Adam LaRoche
might go t the Red Sox. they arwe struggling witgh a left handed batter and want to replace Ortiz
Big Numbers
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Certain photos copyright © 2010 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
