I think the pirates should work things out with jack
by samvescovi on Jun 9, 2009 9:53 AM EDT
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and just resign him for next year, with a club option for like 2 million or so a year. He is worth more to this team than he would be with anyone else and he really can pick it better than anyone else in the league. I don't think he is going to the savior but he will be a nice stop gap before Sano(cross your fingers) or Mercer/D'arnaud get here.
Happy draft day to all.
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Completely agree
Jack is to critical to our success with his glove. When he is out of the lineup there is no one to even come close to what he does outthere. Get him extended for the next few years and let him keep the seat warm for Friday, D’Arnaud, Mercer, or Cunningham. Whoever wants it.
Happy Draft day to you as well. Keith Law said via Twitter that he now has absolutely no idea what is going to happen with any pick. Should be a fun day to watch
as little success as we have had
when he’s not on the field there is a huge hole.
When he IS on the field:
2004 157 games, 72 wins
2005: 158 games, 67 wins
2006: 142 games, 67 wins
2007: 135 games, 68 wins
2008: 87 games, 67 wins
I’m having a hard time seeing a correlation there.
i dont think we have more than 4 wins without him
especially when bixler came up and just peppered that ball over the field. of course that was some sarcasm.
Ooops, posted too soon
What difference does it make?
Look at that again. When he plays more or less full time, IN HIS PRIME: 72 wins, 67 wins.
When he misses 20 games: 67 wins
When he misses 27 games: 68 wins
When he misses half the season: 67 wins.
This goes back to something I posted in the McLouth thread: These guys are virtually never worth as many wins as general fans think they are, and they are never worth as many losses as general fans think they are. Jack is a poor offensive player with a good glove, so he’s about average overall. But look:
Range/9 innings (and yes, I know it’s not a very good metric but still):
2005: 5.08
2006: 4.96
2007: 4.96
2008: 5.08
2009: 4.40
The 2005-2008 figures are quite consistent, even through his ’08 injuries and with any number of awful pitchers in front of him, and with different DP partners etc., and they were all about one play per game above the league average.
He’s made a big slip toward average so far this year (yes, I’m aware other factors such as strikeouts could account for that), and at his age he’s not going to get better but stands a very good chance of continuing to decline. Actually, he ABSOLUTELY will decline, eventually. He’s on the backside of his career. So the difference between plugging in Wilson and somebody like Vazquez for this year and next is not at all as large as people want to believe. Couple-three wins over the course of a season, is my best guess. and if the next shortstop is a better offensive player, even more of that difference will be canceled out.
Notice I’m not mentioning Bixler. Bixler’s terrible. Clearly, that’s why Vazquez is signed for next year too.
And anyway, who cares how many games we win this year and next year? I’d actually rather we be the worst team in baseball. If that were the case last year, we’d be hyped about drafting … what’s his name, Stasberg? rather than worrying that we’ll take Sanchez. Big difference there between picks 1 and 4, wouldn’t you say?
So what the hell do you want to win 70 games instead of 60 for?
Shoot, why win any?
In fact why care about baseball.
Good point.
Sure he can score goals, but can he cook?
by Phantaskippy on Jun 10, 2009 12:33 AM EDT up reply actions
His biggest hope of staying a Pirate is that the front office doesn’t want to deal with the PR nightmare that would be trading another fan favorite. Especially one that has expressed interest in staying around.
However, if the Red Sox make any kind of reasonable offer they gotta take it. It does have to be a human though, the last guy traded for equipment died of a heroin overdose that many think was related to the shame of being traded for 10 bats.
by Blyleven Curve Ball on Jun 9, 2009 11:59 AM EDT reply actions
Return for Jack
No matter what goes on with moving players, we HAVE to get some kind of major league ready SS in return. Bix is not an option and the others have too much development left. As exciting as the young talent is to watch now, it will be downright painful to watch a second half with Bix at SS.
$2M a year is probably not feasible.
Market rate for Jack is probably more along the lines of $5-6M.
Let me rephrase...
….it would be downright painful to watch a second half with Bix OR Vazquez at SS.
I would say Jack is worth closer to 3-4 million just based on the price of other player’s FA contracts this offseason(Hudson, ect…) . I also think they should keep Jack. It definetly doesn’t appear that we have anyone who could step up and play good defense and thats like 80% of his value. What could they possibly get out of Jack to make it worth trading him? After seeing his reaction to Nate’s trade, I wonder how pissed off he would be if they trade Freddy? They’d have to alert the surrounding area! Jack Norris is on the loose and he’s pissed off!
So you think 25 percent of the country is retarded!? Yea, totally. Atleast 25 percent. Well lets do a sample. There are 4 of us and you're retarded. Thats 25 percent. -South Park; Mystery of the Urinal Deuce.
You also have to consider...
…the rest of the FA class at shortstop. If Jack isn’t the top FA SS, who is? Cabrera, Greene, and Everett aren’t hitting at all (yeah, I know Everett doesn’t hit much, but he’s been awful even by his own standards), Vizquel is nine million years old, and Tejada isn’t really a shortstop anymore.
I will agree that Jack Wilson is second to none with the glove. His defense, especially at his age, is amazing! Having said that, how much longer do the Pirates want no offensive production from their SS? Jack simply can’t hit. His defense is great, but I would be willing to give up some defense for some offense from the SS position.
By shortstop standards...
…Jack is a perfectly adequate hitter. .698 OPS so far this year, and ML average of all shortstops this year is a .706.
Since runs are runs, and Jack is an average hitter with let’s say a +10 glove, in order to sacrifice some D and improve overall we’d have to trade for a shortstop with at least +15 offense (assuming an average glove).
A guy with that profile is hugely expensive. Should we really be burning our scarce resources to make small, incremental gains?
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