Excuses, excuses, excuses
by mspirate on Jul 12, 2009 2:22 AM EDT
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PrintI was reading DK's write-up about last night's game, one in which "closer" Matt Capps used nothing but fastballs to cough up a four-run lead in the bottom of the ninth that resulted in a walk-off win for the Phillies, 8-7, and I came across some pretty uninspiring quotes from our great manager John Russell and some of the players. Here are some of the quotes explaining why, in Russell's mind and the mind of the some of the players, the Pirates lost the game in the ninth inning:
"They're an explosive offense, and no lead is safe here," manager John Russell said. "Matt missed his spots a little, and they took advantage of all of them."
"When a team starts hitting like that, it can get contagious," Grabow said.
"Honestly, it's the park," Wilson said. "They built that roster for this park. When you've got four 20-home-run guys like they do, they go up to the plate feeling like they can hit it out every time up."
Okay, so let me get this straight. We lost the game because they have a bandbox stadium and a good offense? We didn't lose because we have a closer that threw, as DK mentioned in the article, five straight fastballs to pinch hitter Matt Stairs, the final fastball being sent into the stands for a home run? We didn't lose because our closer doesn't throw anything but a flat fastball and can't keep big league hitters honest? Enough with the excuses!! We didn't lose because the Phils have a good offense, they have a bandbox park or because "hitting is contagious". Ross Ohlendorf and Zach Duke didn't have much trouble against that offense in their bandbox park against their "contagious hitting" offense. But then again, Ohlendorf and Duke have at least three different pitches that they can throw for strikes. We lost because of two people: Matt Capps and John Russell. Capps isn't a closer, and Russell isn't a big league manager. Simple as that. When you're Capps and all you throw is flat fastballs to arguably the best offense in baseball, you're going to get shelled. The Pirates! would've scored five runs in the ninth off Capps if he were pitching for another team. And John Russell...I don't even know where to begin. Your closer has been getting shelled and walking batters the entire inning, Ryan Howard hits a bomb to left-center field to tie the game, and you leave the guy in?!? No, John, besides the fact that Capps only has one pitch, he also missed his spots A LOT, not a little bit. I don't need to say anything more. Incompetent, dumb and losing are the only three words that come to mind. I know that Russell, Wilson and Grabow aren't going to come out in the media, throw Capps under the bus and say "Capps just didn't get the job done tonight. It was his fault", but it's time to quit making excuses and blaming these kind of debacles on the parks and the other team's offense. While coaches and players are making these excuses, the guy that was actually to blame, Matt Capps, stood up like a man and said that he stunk and it was all on him. Props to him for facing the media and admitting his failure. Yes, the Phillies have a great offense, but this loss had nothing to do with their offense or their park. It's time for the tiresome excuses to stop.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of the managing editor (Charlie) or SB Nation. FanPosts are written by Bucs Dugout readers.
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this loss rather clearly demonstrates the team’s strengths and weaknesses. The strengths include infield defense, some young outfield talent, and some decent starting pitching. The weakness include the lack of a closer and a manager who seems mentally lethargic, almost sedated. I really suspect that Russell is just part of the plan to put on a brave face for a team that is designed to lose. I think the managment wrote off 2009 about 2 months ago, and Russell is there to go along with the eventual blowing up of the team.
Dude...seriously......
how many times do we have to ask? Will you use a couple f….ing paragraphs so that this is readable?
And no excuses....
In the article, Capps is quoted as taking the blame. Quote: I STUNK. Yea it sucks they lost. Yea Capps stunk. So, your problem is his teammates and manager didn’t throw him under the bus? The guy who blew it didn’t make excuses.
So basically you write something, point out at the end why what you wrote isn’t actually true and then criticize the performance.
Let me summarize: Capps was terrible and blew a big lead. His teammates and manager didn’t kill him in the media. You agree, but are disappointed they didn’t win.
Anything else?
The reason I wrote this was to point out the excuses that John Russell and Jack Wilson made for him while Capps himself didn’t make any excuses. I know they aren’t going to throw him under the bus and no, I’m not mad because they didn’t “throw him under the bus”. Russell and Wilson could’ve just said, “We just didn’t get the job done tonight and squandered a great opportunity.” But Wilson goes the extra mile to say “Honestly, it was the park”? That’s ridiculous. I’m not looking for them to throw him under the bus. They shouldn’t. But in no way was that loss because of the park or the Phillies’ offense.
But in no way was that loss because of the park or the Phillies’ offense.
The Phillies do this type of thing all the time, to some degree because they have a great offense and a small park. Give them a fly ball pitcher who only throws fastballs and a tiny bit of luck and you have a 5 run, 1 out 9th inning. Capps stunk, the Phillies offense is good.
charity standing orders
Yes, the Phillies offense is good, but you put any other closer in the league on the mound last night with a four-run lead, and he gets the job done.
Right....
Phillies closer Brad Lidge. ERA over seven, six blown saves I think. Clearly he always gets it done. Remember F-Rod blowing saves to the Pirates, (the Pirates!!!!!) twice this year or he did it once and Putz did it once—and once with a five run lead.
Why do people make ridiculous statements like that? Guys blow leads, even big ones all the time.
Anybody else remember...
Pirates score seven with two out in the ninth for a comeback win against the Astros, with the final two runs coming against All-Star Billy Wagner, who had successfully held his last 18 leads in a season in which he’d go on to pick up 39 saves.
At least the Phillies were beating us with Utley and Rollins and Howard. When we came back on Houston, we needed a hit from rookie Jack Wilson (who had a .550 OPS that year), a double from gimpy old Kevin Young, and a homer from Pat friggin’ Meares, among other unlikely assistance.
The moral of the story: Everybody has a bad day once in a while.
Did you know that Billy Wagner threw 100 mph back then (not 92 mph) and also had a wicked slider to compliment his heater? Gee, guess you didn’t think about that. Yes, that was a just a bad day for Wagner. Saturday was not just another “bad day” for Capps.
Wagner doesn't throw 100 or 92 these days.
He’s on the shelf with TJ.
My point was that even great closers sometimes blow saves in spectacular fashion. Which they do.
You Can't Blame It On The Park
The last time I checked, when two baseball teams play each other, they play in the same park.
by Androgen Jar Jimmy on Jul 12, 2009 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Rivera, Webb, Santana
Rivera – A rare exception. The guy has arguably the nastiest cutter that the game has ever seen. When you throw a pitch that cuts 4-5 inches like that AND can throw it with pinpoint control, you’re unhittable. He’s been doing it now for 15 years. Not a good example.
Webb – He does dominate with one pitch. He has a 2-seamer that may be the best in the game to go along with a slow curve and a split finger that falls off the table.
Johan Santana – Again, doesn’t dominate with a single pitch. Throws a 93 mph fastball to set up his nasty 81-82 mph changeup. Also, has a slider, but doesn’t throw it a whole lot.
Three pretty bad examples.
You forgot Santana's curveball
MLB scouts have said he has three plus pitches: his fastball, his changeup and his curveball. Mix that in with a slider he throws when he’s ahead in the count, and you have four good reasons why he’s a dominating pitcher.
mspirate
chillax man! Its a bad loss. We didnt just lose the wild card or anything. Our closer blew it and closers blow it. No one is perfect – even KRod. Capps will come back and close the next one. Baseball is 162 games. If this was football, you could bitch.
If you were a betting man (and you may be), would you put your money on Capps if we have a 2-run lead in the ninth today?
Hell yea.....
And if you are a betting man and you didn’t, you might be right, but it would be a bad bet.
Sometimes I think people here just jump on ms for the hell of it
Those pitchers were pretty terrible examples, and you can’t dominate with one pitch if that pitch is a mediocre fastball. Get real.
And Santana? God, to have a good change-up, you need a decent fastball.
Sometimes I think people here just jump on ms for the hell of it
and sometimes i think he just makes random inflamatory statements to gain attention, which we of course play into, but honestly i don’t think it’s even that. it’s just a continual stream of bullsh*t that i may be adding to (and becoming a living version of one of the best xkcd comics) by trying to respond but nonetheless warrants attention because it’s the only thing that separates the comments on BD from the PBC blog. why not attempt to contribute something yourself besides personal criticism?
perhaps they’re not the best examples. i’m no baseball historian. tim wakefield has a terrible arsenal outside of his knuckleball. jeez, even mike williams had some good seasons with only his slider to count on.
capps doesn’t dominate with a mediocre fastball. he dominates with control, which has suffered this year but shown signs of rebounding. not everybody dominates on stuff alone.
greg maddux had a pretty good changeup without a very good fastball. ms will probably say he doesn’t count because he was good. if you dismiss all of the good examples by saying they’re good so they’re exceptions, then of course no argument can ever be made against you.
look mr. bread perhaps you’re right and this is indeed pointless, in which case i’ll agree and leave you to enjoy the compiled works of mspirate uninterrupted by reality. maybe he should start a blog. you could be his first reader.
We would jump on him a lot less...
…if he took time to think before posting, and maybe check his facts once in a while, rather than being a reactionary almost 100% of the time.
I didnt even watch the game but...
Youre gonna shit on the guy for throwing too many fastballs (his best pitch), but what if he wouldve walked Stairs on offspead stuff? Again, I ddint watch it, but with a 4 run lead you cant blame the guy for “trusting his stuff”.
BTW, I think its funny that people are willing to concede the next couple seasons because this team is obviously in no place for contention, but yet certain folks jump on a guy for getting knocked around by the defending World Series champs who had won their last 7 of 8 before last night. Can we please calm down?
by Bucs Fever on Jul 13, 2009 1:08 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
common occurrence??????
13 straight saves. last 19 outings giving up 1 run or less. its more being human than a common occurrence! it also probably has something to do with putting a closer in a non save situation.i would love to see stats on CAPPS (and other Closers) in save situations vs non save situations. Lidge,Jenks,Capps come to mind recently. just wondering
I don't think it's so much
that he blew the game, it’s what it looked like in the process.
1. Capps was giving up rockets. He didn’t have jack. If it wasn’t apparent before Howard’s moon shot, it should have been immediately after.
2. The manager didn’t seem to be concerned he was giving up rockets, and flushing the game in the process. The manager appeared to be hanging him out to dry. He let Capps pitch to FOUR BATTERS after Howard.
That was an ugly ugly loss, and it didn’t have to play out that way. Sure, we might still have lost if someone else had pitched to Howard, or come in after. But I think it would have looked more to us like somebody on the bench had a clue what was going on, and then I think we could have lived with it.
BTW, I don’t care how many saves in a row Capps has, he’s looked shaky in many of them (turning three-run leads into two-run leads is not being effective). Note that in his save situations his ERA has still been over 4.00.
I'd argue it's MORE relevant for closers
Because they usually come into a game with bases empty and no one out, and it’s extremely seldom that anyone comes in behind them and gives up inherited runs, so a bad ERA is pretty much all on him.
FWIW, Capps started the season with six scoreless appearances and five saves. Since then he has give up one or more runs in 10 of 26 appearances, including three of the last five. He had a stretch in the middle of that where we went 10 games and was scored on once.
Just for the fun of it, I looked up the gold standard, Mariano Rivera, and he has given up runs in six of 36 ppearances.
I’m not saying Capps is awful, I’m not seriously advocating that he be pulled from the job. He’s a decent closer with stretches of being very good. I AM saying I think it was inhumane to leave him in there Saturday until eight of the nine batters he faced reached base, and the one that didn’t nearly hit the ball out of the park, until he allowed two monster homers, and until even 800-year-old Paul freaking Bako smacked him.
He didn’t have it. Unfortunately, it’s not his job to pull himself from a game when he sucks (maybe Snell would, THAT would be interesting), but I don’t think his feelings should be the least concern of a manager whose job it is to go to the mound, say, “Son, it doesn’t look like you have shit today,” and take the ball. ESPECIALLY when the manager is a former catcher and ought to know what a gasless pitcher looks like.
Capps is a good Closer
Most closers have one pitch and it is a fastball that is overpowering and sometimes have a curve or something to like that closers normally have three pitches in their bag of tricks. Rare exceptions to the overpowering fastball are Hoffman (former Charleston Alley Cat could have been a member of the pirates) and Rivera who have pitches with nasty movement on them so don’t throw Capps under the bus for a bad outing all closers have them get over it
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