All-time Pirates team (Atari R.B.I. Baseball)?

by humbucker on Jul 15, 2009 11:07 AM EDT Comment 12 comments

Who remembers Atari's "R.B.I. Baseball" arcade game, from 1987? In it, you could pick one of the 10 teams of the Atari League (Oak, ChC, LA, StL, Hou, NYY, Bos, SF, Cin, Atl), and play against either the computer or another player. The 10 teams included player stats from throughout the team's history (e.g., the Yankee' lineup included Ruth and Gehrig plus Maris and Mantle, with Winfield and Mattingly also available). The starting 8 for each team were set, but there were four more position players on the bench, and you had four pitchers to choose from in any order. While most of the rudimentary stats provided for each player were historically accurate, the designers took liberties with the stats of the then-current players featured. (For more information about this game, Gantry's RBI Baseball Page is irreverent but recommended.)

Naturally, the Pirates weren't among the 10 teams of the Atari league (although the game can apparently be 'hacked' to add any team). But if they were, which 16 players (the starting eight, plus four reserves and four pitchers) would you choose to represent the Pirates? My choices are after the jump.

My criteria favored Pirates enshrined into the Hall of Fame and/or players with a World Series ring (which basically disqualifies all current and recent Pirates). In addition, players who had their best seasons with other teams are excluded from consideration (for example, Barry Bonds would be part of the Giants' revised lineup, and HOF'er Rich Gossage only spent one season as a Pirate). Thus, my starting lineup, bench, and pitching staff are as follows (links are to player pages at baseball-reference.com):

Starting Lineup:

Honus Wagner (RH, SS) - .381-4-100, 38 SB (1900)
Paul Waner (LH, CF) - .380-9-131 (1927; MVP)
Roberto Clemente (RH, RF) - .317-29-119 (1966; MVP)
Willie Stargell (LH, 1B) - .295-48-125 (1971)
Ralph Kiner (RH, LF) - .310-54-127 (1949)
Pie Traynor (RH, 3B) - .366-9-119 (1930)
Manny Sanguillen (RH, C) - .328-9-58 (1975)
Bill Mazeroski (RH, 2B) - .275-19-68 (1958)
(pitcher)

Bench:

Dave Parker (RH, OF) - .334-30-117, 20 SB (1978; MVP)
Max Carey (SH, OF) - .343-5-44, 46 SB (1925)
Arky Vaughn (LH, SS) - .385-19-99 (1935)
Bill Madlock (RH, 3B) - .319-19-95 (1982)

Notes: The rich history of the Pittsburgh Pirates means that three Hall of Famers (Lloyd Waner, Arky Vaughn, Max Carey) and two MVPs (Dick Groat, Dave Parker) don't crack the starting lineup. My selection of Manny Sanguillen (the only starter not in the Hall of Fame) as the catcher might be the most debatable choice. But as much as I liked Tony Pena's enthusiasm, defense, and occasional pop, and as great of a contact hitter as Jason Kendall once was, Sanguillen's World Series rings make him my choice.

To round out the bench, I gave shortstop Arky Vaughn the edge over Dick Groat and his 1960 MVP season (.325-2-50) because Vaughn is in the Hall of Fame and hits left-handed. Similarly, having outfielders Dave Parker and Max Carey on the bench left no room for Hall of Famer Lloyd Waner, Matty Alou, Omar Moreno (he of the blinding speed but relatively low OBP), or Andy Van Slyke. Here, the most debatable choice might be Bill Madlock, who gets my vote because he was a good hitter (with a ridiculous OBP) who earned a World Series ring as a Pirate, and is not a shortstop or outfielder. Although the Mad Dog's 1981 season was better based on rate stats, I chose his 1982 stats for the home run totals. If I had to include a (not for much longer?) current Pirate on the roster, I would probably substitute Freddy Sanchez for Madlock.

Pitching Staff:

Doug Drabek (RHP) - 22-6, 2.76 ERA (1990)
Bob Veale (LHP) - 17-12, 2.84 ERA, 276 K (1965)
Vern Law (RHP) - 20-9, 3.08 ERA (1960)
Kent Tekulve (RHP) - 10-8, 2.75 ERA, 31 SV (1979)

Notes: With only four pitchers needed to "fill" the roster, my criteria were to include three starting pitchers, with at least one left-hander, and one relief pitcher. Although he does not have a World Series ring and will likely never make the Hall of Fame, Doug Drabek made the list because he was the last Pirates hurler to utterly dominate N.L. hitters. Among left-handed starters, Bob Veale got the nod over John Candelaria and Harvey Haddix because I wanted a flamethrower on the staff. For the last starting pitcher, I chose Vern Law's Cy Young-winning season over solid pitchers like Babe Adams and Bob Friend. Finally, for the lone relief pitcher, I chose Kent Tekulve over Roy Face and Dave Giusti for his durability, and because Teke's unconventional sidearm delivery makes an interesting contrast to the other three pitchers.

But enough of me yakking... who would you pick for your "Atari League" all-time Pirates team?

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Comments

I’m going Steve Blass over Bob Veale

by John Russell has personality! on Jul 15, 2009 1:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

yeah, I should have at least acknowledged Blass up there… my apologies for the unintentional slight.

by humbucker on Jul 15, 2009 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’m going Donny Veal over Bob Veale.

by Suffering Buc on Jul 15, 2009 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Come on...

Barry Bonds has to be on the list. The guy (pre-steriods) was one of the best players ever and may have been an outfielder on the MLB all-time team.

Bonds was an MVP with the Pirates. He has to be in the OF.

WE ARE.......PENN STATE!

by Nick7 on Jul 15, 2009 1:47 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

personally, I think Barry’s seasons in S.F. dwarf his accomplishments in Pittsburgh, but a case could certainly be made that he should be a Pirate.

but if you include Bonds, who do you exclude? if he is a starter, do you lose Clemente, Kiner, or Big Poison?

by humbucker on Jul 15, 2009 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Big Poison Waner was MVP in 1927, and he’s fondly remembered as the all-time best drunk in the history of MLB, Clemente was MVP in 1966 (and to be fair he probably should have won in 1960). Kiner’s Bucs were never good enuff to give him a legitimate shot at MVP but he led the NL in HR 7 seasons in a row, and in 1949 had an OPS+ of 189. Bonds was MVP twice with PBC, and twice broke 200 in OPS+, so he deserves to be in the conversation.

But I think Bonds Pittsburgh years have already faded from public memory — he’s thought of as a Giant. Let them have him. The starting lineup is all players identified solely with the Pirates even if a few had cups of coffee somewhere else (Sanguillen, Waner, Kiner, Wagner if you don’t count Louisville as the pre-Bucs). I think that fact is important on an all-time team.

by WstCstBucco on Jul 15, 2009 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Lots of good great drinking stories about Waner.

I remember reading once (in Veeck’s “The Hustler’s Handbook”, I think) that he used to like hitting while drunk because a blurry ball looked a lot bigger to him, and that he was fine as long as he swung at the one in the middle.

by Vlad on Jul 15, 2009 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I would have liked to see Bob Friend make the team somehow

but it is hard to argue with your choices. Friend had some good years for some pretty mediocre teams and even won the NL ERA title in 1955.

There was a table game that came out in the early 1970s that had 25-man all-time-all-star rosters for all 16 original ML teams. The only guy I can think of that was included in that game that you don’t mention is Smokey Burgess. I am sure that there were a couple of additional pitchers though.

by WestCoastBuc on Jul 15, 2009 1:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Does it use context-adjusted stats, or raw stats?

That makes a big difference.

by Vlad on Jul 15, 2009 3:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

in some cases, the R.B.I. baseball game appeared to make up stats from whole cloth (e.g., Mark McGwire hit 62 HRs for Oakland in 1987). For my picks above, I used actual stats from one season, so let’s assume they use raw stats.

by humbucker on Jul 15, 2009 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs