One more (last?) time....

we aren’t going to get anything of value talent-wise for either player. The market has changed. Kudos to NH for trading McLouth and Morgan when he did.

vests, at this point, if Freddy reaches 600 plate appearances, which is pretty likely, barring injury. If he didn’t reach that number the team has an option to exercise it anyway, but they have stated they would not do that. (And, to your point, most people, in all lines of business, didn’t forecast such a severe, worldwide economic downturn).

As for the offers leaking out, I’m sure the players’ agents leaked them, not the front office.

And again let’s not compare the Koufax, Drysdale situation. Free agency didn’t exist back then. They could sit out and not get paid or they could play. There was no other option.

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I did the numbers and he would have to miss about 10-12 of the remaining games not to vest. If he continues to bat #2, he is guaranteed to get 4 plate appearances a game. He needs 218 more appearances which translates to 54.5 games. And obviously he could get more than 4 in any of those games. The Pirates have 63 games left.

Again, if the Pirates manipulate this number by not playing him, the case union will certainly file a grievance. However, the view that no one will ever sign with the Pirates again, etc., etc. I think is silly. What may never happen again is the Pirates won’t negotiate this type of option into a contract.

at $2M, i think it was

players, you are basically referring to two at the moment—Jack and Freddy.

I’m pretty sure the Cutch’s, Young’s, Moss’, Jones’, Morton’s, Andy LaRoche’s, et al. of the world are pleased as hell to get their opportunity to perform and try to succeed at the major league level—virtually all of them at the same time. And I have to believe they all see the plan and see themselves and their peers as part of that plan. The “problem” is the veterans are more well known, more likely to speak up, and, in this case happen to be disgruntled. But, I’m pretty sure about 20 of the 25 guys on the current roster are pretty damn happy about the direction of the franchise and NOBODY talks about this.

I’m not sure I agree or even understand everything NH has done and I’m pretty sure I’m not qualified to have an opinion on personal relationships that I only know about through the media. But, I do think NH and the FO have been very clear about the team’s overall direction. What we’ve seen is Jack pop off repeatedly and a few words of disappointment from others like Burnett and Sanchez. I understand their views, but I also understand NH’s view that they are getting paid and need to be professional and when they get quoted in the media criticizing the team or building “shrines” it doesn’t help anyone either. I think all of NH’s questionable quotes or comments can be attributed to actions that one or more players precipitated.

There are these guys.

I think I saw it once before, though God only knows where. If it’s saying what I think it’s saying, it’s a metaphorical reference to archery. Arrows and bolts (i.e. arrows for a crossbow) tend to degrade with use, so if you’re in a situation where you absolutely need to hit something, you use your best arrow/bolt to try and bring it down, as that arrow/bolt will have the least in-flight error from being warped or having mangled fletches or whatever.

Hard to know how it could’ve been misinterpreted, huh? :P

you do understand that both players turned down extensions last week, right? Now maybe they were low, maybe not, but certainly Jack was offered something that appears to be near his market value. And, he is a free agent at the end of the year. By trading him, the team is trying to extract some value rather than letting him walk for nothing—if he isn’t going to sign an extension.

really, they’re just bad.

Actually, Freddy IS one of the best second basemen offensively. At least, he was until his recent slump.

it has as much to do with the completely transformed economic landscape as anything. I don’t think anyone, in baseball or otherwise, saw that coming.

If it were still 2006 or ‘07 he would be worth that money. The team has decided, rightly or wrongly, that he isn’t worth that in 2010.

you can see pretty clearly why a team might be reluctant to sign Barry Bonds, right?

As for collusion, maybe I misrepresented your thoughts. I apologize if so, but I didn’t think most recently you were restricting it just to Bonds. I thought you were saying it was part of the landscape generally.

I’m not sure players (who I doubt have any opinion) and agents are the best source to cite since they are the ones who directly benefit from the charges they are making. An outside source might have a little more credibility.

And that things are “brewing”.

[Insert preferred exclamation of pain]

I posted links about it it in a couple of other threads, but it seems like I always do it just after you’ve left. :P