ESPN: Cubs "Finalizing" Deal for John Grabow
by Charlie Wilmoth on Jul 30, 2009 4:11 PM EDT
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PrintThe Chicago Cubs are in the process of finalizing a trade for Pittsburgh Pirates left-handed reliever John Grabow, a source close to the situation told ESPNChicago.com.
The Cubs have been in the market for a left-handed reliever to firm up their bullpen, and Grabow has been on their radar for a while. Sean Marshall is currently the only lefty in the bullpen.
The Cubs don't have the world's best farm system, but they won't necessarily need it to get Grabow. At the same time, there's no rush for the Bucs to trade him--twith the 2010 payroll as low as it now projects to be, there would be no particular reason not to offer Grabow arbitration after the season so that he could return a compensation pick or two if he left.
Thanks to UtesFan89.
UPDATE 4:21: Dejan Kovacevic says the trade, now including Tom Gorzelanny as well as Grabow, is "just about done."
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DK on Twitter
“Source: Grabow/Gorzelanny just about done”
It's official
Grabow, Gorzelanny traded to Cubs
By Dejan Kovacevic | 5:41 p.m. Thursday
The Pirates have traded pitchers John Grabow and Tom Gorzelanny to the Chicago Cubs.
Details to come.
Return: Hart, Ascanio, Harrison
UPDATE 5:50 p.m.: Pitchers Kevin Hart and Jose Ascanio are the return, according to ESPN Chicago.
5:52 p.m.: The above is official, and add third baseman Josh Harrison to the return.
Interesting...
a Class A third baseman…that’s all of 5’8" tall.
Yeah! How dare they trade a situational left hander too! Grabow is the FUTURE!!
Woe is me when does it end?!?!?!
Hey man, he’s the “setup man”. You can’t get to the WS without a closer and setup man. Impossible.
charity standing orders
But…but…
Who will pitch the 8th now?
by MrPedriqueIfYoureNasty on Jul 30, 2009 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Donnie Veal for the win!
(Everyone go hide in a corner now as Veal walks another batter)
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Chavez doesn’t walk enough guys although I’m willing to consider the other two.
by MrPedriqueIfYoureNasty on Jul 30, 2009 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions
In all seriousness . . .
It obviously depends on the return, but it seems to me the Bucs would be well-served to let Grabow go to FA and offer arbitration. There’s a good chance he’d accept, but if he did, it’s not like he’d command a significant contract. $3-4M, maybe?
I’d rather take the prospects than be on the hook 3-4M for Grabow. Thats a nice signing bonus for a high draft pick or a really good international FA.
True
I really could go either way on this. My thinking is that, with the money the Bucs have freed up from the McLouth, Mario, and Freddy trades, they could roll the dice on Grabow not accepting arbitration, because even if he does, it’s not like his salary would cripple them for next year.
Lately
It seems like teams can wait a certain amount of time before signing a player and not forfeit the picks, no? I think either we’d retain Grabow or someone would wait to sign him, nullifying the deal. Still, I’m cautious of ANY trade with the CUBS.
this has to be sarcasm
being done with a team before even knowing what the return is?
what if the return is a 22 yo Roberto Clemente?
Just to fill you in, every few hours another fanpost shows up saying the same crap. Most people are just mocking those at this point.
charity standing orders
Just to fill you in, every few hours another fanpost shows up saying the same crap. Most people are just mocking those at this point.
When Captain America throws his mighty shield,
All those who chose to oppose his shield must yield.
Me too.
If I had season tickets, I wouldn’t renew them. Grabow is like a modern day Tekulve.
by IAPiratesFan on Jul 30, 2009 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually
Why would anyone buy season tickets for 2010? I can slam my fingers in the door 81 times for free.
The Pirates should offer a package: Opening Day, Closing Day, and the debuts of Pedro, Lincoln, and… Alderson? Someone.
Another good promotion
If you buy tix for the 82nd loss in advance, you get a refund! That should up ticket sales for around Labor Day.
Ain't gonna take...
til Labor Day to get to 82.
Go back in time and sue the 86 Pirates too.
Trading away all their best players like Bill Madlock and Kent Tekulve and George Hendrick and Jason Thompson and Marvell Wynne. Trading those guys were just salary dumps, they’ll never win again without them.
by IAPiratesFan on Jul 30, 2009 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Speaking of Joggin' George Hendrick
He’s the Ray’s 1B coach now and he was on ESPN the other day chewing out BJ Upton for not running out a ball hit off the wall and getting thrown out at 2nd.
Very ironic for anyone who watched him play.
Considering Gorzelanny is involved. . .
the trade better return some interesting prospects because there is NO reason to trade him. He doesn’t have a bad contract, isn’t arbitration eligible, has been pitching very well at AAA, has not clashed with management and was very good just 2 years ago.
and Gorzo will be
biting us in the ass for years if it works out as he’ll be in the same division. Hopefully the same division thing and the timing means that the return is substantially more significant than other teams offered.
Good day.
I hope we get Flaherty, Jackson, and McDaniel in this deal
JUST SAY NO TO CASTRO!
Why's that?
I can’t say I’m familiar with the Cubs’ prospects; why don’t you like Castro?
I know he's 19 in high A
but he a weak bat compared to Flaherty who is formerly Pedro’s teammate at Vandy. 14HR in low A as a 2B….shades of Chase Utley here. Jackson in AA is another Ohlendorf with a better fastball while McDaniel is a Neal H diamond in the rought.
Maybe Castro will develop into an AS SS or he could be the next Ronny Cedeno.
doesn't matter in this case
Selected by Chicago Cubs in 1st Round (41st overall) of 2008 amateur entry draft (June-Reg
With his caliber he should be playing for Lynchburg right now.
You just compared a low A 2B
to Chase Utley?
Well, I guess Utley played in low A at sometime.
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Jul 30, 2009 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions
What if...
Since Littlefield is with the Cubs the reports of Gorzo being in the deal are erroneous and it is actually Yoslan?
Sorry, just trying to be funny.
Good day.
We technically could trade them Jose Hernandez.
Since we drafted him this year.
by IAPiratesFan on Jul 30, 2009 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Trading
It’s like day trading; once you get into it you can’t stop. But on a serious note, what’s the logic of depleting all your LH pitchers. This has to be somethng huge in return.
We still have Veal and Dumatrait, which I’ll admit doesn’t leave you feeling too confident, but it’s not the end of the world, not to mention Moskos in AA, who could still make it as a reliever. We also have 2 very decent prospects (Owens/Locke) who are either at Lynchburg or should be.
Still, I agree that it’s not smart unless we get something pretty decent in return.
charity standing orders
Remember
This year means squat and there is always a Will Ohman or Alan Embree or someone like that available on the cheap in the offseason to be a LOOGY.
It's been 35 minutes
Since everyone was saying this deal was done or was nearly done and now nothing. I get the feeling the deal is done, but will not be announced until the Cubs game is over.
fwiw
the cubs haven’t pulled anyone in their major league game. not sure what’s going on in their minors.
I hate the idea of trading within the division. Especially someone like Gorzo-whatever who will probably figure it out sooner or later. Former Pirates tend to kill the Pirates
A lot of people
tend to kill the Pirates, like Mike Hampton
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
Speaking of Hampton
he was killed by the Cubs yesterday (like Russ Ortiz today).
Don’t the Astros have to decide to buy or sell and do something?
Lots of older players, and then a couple of pitchers who are getting hammered by everyone not known as the Pirates.
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Also, a bit old...
but did anyone else see Hampton vs. the…Dodgers I think? Where he was just throwing the ball into his glove, missed, and a run scored from like 3rd b/c the ball went into the crowd? Hilarious.
If you have confidence in your GM...
…you should love trading inside the division, since it’s a double impact. You get a good player, and you put the screws to a direct competitor.
It’s only when you have a Littlefield that it becomes a problem.
Not how trades should work
Trades should be win-win as often as possible. If they’re not – if NH gets a rep for “putting the screws” to the trading partner (note the word choice), then he doesn’t get much trade action anymore.
Remember how DL couldn’t make trades because everyone was sick of him overvaluing his guys?
Screwing the other team isn't a primary goal.
But if it happened to a divisional opponent, I sure wouldn’t cry about it.
Obviously not
I’m just saying, it’s a fluke, not something you can really plan or achieve regularly.
And naturally the P-G blog won't load
Too many folks trying to access it from their CompuServe accounts, I guess.
Cubs are currently playing right now
Top of the 8th so we may not hear anything for another half-hour
ugh
Like I said....
…I think it’s done and it’s on hold until after the game is over to make the announcement. It is possible a player oin the MLB roster is involved, but just not playing in today’s game.
cubs players on the bench right now:
pitchers:
r. dempster
k. gregg
a. guzman
r. harden
a. heilman
c. marmol
j. samardzija
j. stevens
r. wells
c. zambrano
hitters:
j. baker
a. ramirez
Well, softball timeand much like the Pirates, if I don’t go my team will have no second baseman and #2 hitter! ;-)
I'm sure your team has a good-bat/no-glove guy to replace you, Brakeman
If they don’t, they could give another team $1 to get one.
Me too!
Time to find a new team to root for.
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Brakeman
make sure to stay after the game. They’re going to trade you to the other team.
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"Do bad on purpose"
Isn’t that why we ended up with Alderson instead of Bumgarner? :)
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What happened?
I go away for a little while and you guys lost us Vitters? lol
At least I was glad to find out I was not part of the trade. lol
For those interested, 2-for-5, scored twice and just missed 2 HRs…including what would have been a grand slam to tie our game…but instead was the last out. :-(
Jeez the pirates are really selling
are we that desperate to rebuild? I was hoping we could do a Rays turnaround with the roster we have, oh well
Carlos Guillen, the Latino Punto
Not with the lack of talent they had
going into the season. The Rays’ young talent is still leaps and bounds ahead of the Bucs’ talent, but we’re making progress.
yes
they at least ould have contended for wild card or the division lead until late august or september, as I said, oh well
Carlos Guillen, the Latino Punto
if only
we could have picked up a matt morris type player
by SamTheButcher on Jul 30, 2009 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions
i like you
you seem like a nice fellow.
i just don’t think you’re correct in your assessment of the teams talent level.
by SamTheButcher on Jul 30, 2009 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions
We're
1/3 of the way there, if this draft works out…
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i know how highly touted vitters is
but this deal makes me a little apprehensive… i m not sure we win, in that!
Maybe they've agreed
that if Fox hits a HR before the game ends (after the deal was agreed upon, without him being pulled), the Cubs have to toss him in for free?
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No idea
but Tony Thomas maybe? A 2nd-baseman in AA?
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Provided, of course
that we can’t get Castro/Flaherty/Lee from them.
And Thomas is closer to the majors than those 3…
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as long as it's not aaron miles
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
Man, nothing happening right now
even MLBTR is dead.
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Sun-Times report
Says they’re announcing it after the Cubs game is complete. Top 9 now, so it should be soon.
Reds
backed off of potential Scott Rolen deal.
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THEY TRADED THE ONLY JEWISH PIRATE?!?!?
FOR BUBKIS! IM DONE WITH THIS TEAM!
RIP NATE. RIP TONY PLUSH.
"I'D BE A CHEF"
-TONY PLUSH
by GTrain on Jul 30, 2009 5:17 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Maybe they'll announce at the press conference...
…that Cutch is converting.
Worked for Carew, right?
Not too bad
but I would expect a couple more are thrown in
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
not bad. 22 in AA. lots of Ks, lots of BBs. pitched for furman, which i only note because their football team beat pitt a few years ago.
Either way
that’s kinda sad. Isn’t it?
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Ugh.
And that’s the team the Utes got?
No offense to Pitt, but should’ve been Auburn/Utah that year.
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Quit talkin crap on my school
We may not be good at sports, but its damn beautiful here.
by thecheeseisblue on Jul 30, 2009 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Curious
Where is Furman?
No talking crap on them, but lets be honest… Pitt should’ve blown them out of the water in football
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Oh I know
I was kidding. But it’s in South Carolina. Three thousand students, and a thousand acre campus designed by the architect who designed the capitol building. We go lakes and swans and a formal rose and japanese garden. Take that Pitt.
by thecheeseisblue on Jul 30, 2009 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Seriously?
That’s nice.
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Yeah
Beautiful and a damn good school. I’m gonna be paying for it for the next thirty years.
by thecheeseisblue on Jul 30, 2009 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I got Mardi Gras
so you can keep your lakes and swans
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
Damn.
All I’ve got is… uh, smog. Lots of smog. Anyone wanna trade?
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I'll look for you
uptown on the ave. next year. I ride Smokey Mary in Orpheus.
"Never mistake motion for action." - Ernest Hemingway
Sweet
Now if can remember that…
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
Just look for
the drunk guy in a mask . . . oh, nevermind.
"Never mistake motion for action." - Ernest Hemingway
Ha
+1
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
Supposedly Jay Jackson was pulled because he’s being promoted to AAA, according to the unreliable Depaoli
by thecheeseisblue on Jul 30, 2009 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I came over to see if you guys know any more than we do about the trade
I wouldn’t put much stock in who got pulled. with it being a 12-3 game several people got pulled.
---AC 00 00 00 - Believe
Wow.
So all of them are Pirates now. That’s awesome!
by IAPiratesFan on Jul 30, 2009 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Comedy
meh
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
Around the Horn
Bashing the Pirates at the moment
Steelers - Immaculate Reception. Penguins - Immaculate Rejection. Pirates......Immaculate Resurrection???
Yinzers
will likely use that as a source that the Pirates FO sucks
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
all of the guys on ath are idiots.
at one point they were probably really good journalists, but that was a long time ago.
---AC 00 00 00 - Believe
Los Angeles reporter
Probably didn’t know who Bay was till he got traded to the Sox
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
KB saying the Pirates should be demoted to the AAA level
Steelers - Immaculate Reception. Penguins - Immaculate Rejection. Pirates......Immaculate Resurrection???
How about
sending the Mets to AAA. Spend the second most in baseball and can’t get above .500. But hardly anyone bashes them until their GM goes off the deep end
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
He's not been off the deep end?
I mean it’s Omar Minaya, He’s so crazy that it’d be nice for him to get to the point where he’s just off the deep end.
by IAPiratesFan on Jul 30, 2009 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Well
far enough off that they finally had to report something negative about a big market team.
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
Yes
Sue the Pirates for trading away the core of a 67 win team. Brilliant
Sad thing is some dumbass fan’s going to be like “Yeah…Yeah!!!! Lets sue!!”
Go back in time and sue the 86 Pirates too.
In the last two years, that team has been a joke, Trading away all their best players like Bill Madlock and Kent Tekulve and John Candelaria and George Hendrick and Jason Thompson and Marvell Wynne. Trading those guys were just salary dumps, they’ll never win again without them.
by IAPiratesFan on Jul 30, 2009 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I think the question is, who at espn all of a sudden has a bug up their ass about the Pirates? It’s been non-stop killing them for the past week on every single radio and TV show. Are they just now noticing how bad things have been here? Probably
even Sportscenter
Mentioning that we’re trying to trade Johnny Depp and the Parrot
Steelers - Immaculate Reception. Penguins - Immaculate Rejection. Pirates......Immaculate Resurrection???
How much can we get for them?
I’m all for it.
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i would bet
johnny depp outearns our entire major league payroll in a year.
he's probably got a good cutter
edward scissorhands… anyone?
by johnnycuff on Jul 30, 2009 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
If you ask ESPN?
Like 70
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We should try what the angels did
And become the Boston Pirates of Pittsburgh. Then they can blow us all day and give us a free pass on things like trading for Gagne and Kim
RIP NATE. RIP TONY PLUSH.
"I'D BE A CHEF"
-TONY PLUSH
I hate that show
Can’t stand Mariotti, Paige, and every other hack on that show
Pretty funny
keithlaw: Pirates Trade Neal Huntington to Yankees for Four Single-A GMs #fakenews
RIP NATE. RIP TONY PLUSH.
"I'D BE A CHEF"
-TONY PLUSH
fwiw
all wgn has said is that they are close to making a deal with the pirates.
---AC 00 00 00 - Believe
If it's Jay Jackson?
Can we call him “Shoeless Jay”?
Does he have a moonwalking son named Michael?
Is she really going out with him? Is she going to take him home tonight?
PTI joinin in on the fun
weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Yeah its the GM's Fault
He’s the one making us lose all those games
Steelers - Immaculate Reception. Penguins - Immaculate Rejection. Pirates......Immaculate Resurrection???
I'm sorry
Did Neal somehow go back in time and trade the ’92 lineup in ’90 somehow?
WOW!
Wilbon ripping Neal H a new A-hole…..easy on him homes
Wilbon is one of the worst analysts I’ve ever seen.
by thecheeseisblue on Jul 30, 2009 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions
But at least other guys don’t yell about it like they can’t possibly be wrong.
by thecheeseisblue on Jul 30, 2009 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Wilbon's reaction to Neal's '27 Yankees quote
Hey Neal you’re not Branch Rickey
How
does that even address the quote?
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
I've been scratching my head too
Maybe because Branch Rickey was famous while with the Cards for creating the minor league system where players are bought young by the organization and moved up from Class D to C to B to A to AA to AAA to the majors, and Wilbon is saying that Huntington doesn’t know how to set up a minor league system?
I’m thinking this is giving Wilbon too much credit though. I think he just threw out the only old GM he could name.
Besides Theo Epstein and Cashman
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
Well, that was quick.
Mentioned the Astros needing to do something… they just released Russ Ortiz after his start today.
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good
now maybe if they would release hampton we’d be able to beat them.
OMG....
The PTI guys just killed owners and management for 17 losing seasons. Lumping them all together. F>>>>ing Morons.
Has anyone else
noticed that all these reporters that rip the Pirates come from big markets?
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
This is just like when Paul Allen passed on Jordan when he was 20 and unconnected to the Blazers!
RIP NATE. RIP TONY PLUSH.
"I'D BE A CHEF"
-TONY PLUSH
Yeah
How dare he do that?
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Hey Pal,
You’re not Branch Rickey.
Yeah, Neal Huntington is alive. But in all seriousness, these GMs have to get started somewhere and even when they had the 08 team together, they weren’t winning. So what would those idiots suggest he do? Just sorta live with what he had and try not to change things? That’s worked so well in the past….
by IAPiratesFan on Jul 30, 2009 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions
PTI
You have to take it as entertainment and not accurate sports analysis. It’s good for what it is. I love Cowherd for the same reason.
Hurry it up guys
this is getting boring.
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Dejan
says its done.
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it's announced per DK
not the terms though. mlbtraderumors says maybe jay jackson.
sorry, here’s the link:
http://twitter.com/mlbtraderumors
RT @kingclip Hearing that the #Cubs may be sending RHP Jay Jackson to the #Pirates in this deal
heard by mlbtr via kevin goldstein
Hopefully Vitters
punched someone important in the mouth yesterday and they want to get rid of them
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Jul 30, 2009 5:44 PM EDT reply actions
Now Harold Reynolds
on MLB network, wondering why no one is getting major leaguers back in trades…um Harold, you trade for prospects and prospects are in the minors
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
its called a rebuiding plan
it worked for the Marlins! 2 WS titles
tools these national media are
Ken Rosenthal
now telling it how it is on MLB network. I now have more respect for him
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
is he not completely bashing us for these trades, and does he actually realize what we’re trying to do by making them? I don’t have MLB network, so i can’t actually watch it.
he didn't bash at all
he actually stated the exact plan that (at least as far as we speculate) is going on and said it’s controversial and risky but it could work.
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
wow, finally a reporter who is at least willing to accept that there’s a reason that huntington’s doing what he’s doing, other than that he’s an idiot.
ya
and they have a couple smart people that actually understand what the Pirates are doing on there which is why I watch them for MLB coverage (until I go back to college in August). Just have to ignore Harold Reynolds
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
Colin Cowherd
sang a song about the Bucs at the opening of his show today. It was a parody of Styx.
“Come Trade Away With Me.”
I almost threw up in my car.
Sometimes I'm really glad
I don’t watch ESPN religiously. Or at all, for that matter
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or not
RT @espnchicago BREAKING NEWS: Cubs send Hart, Ascanio to Pittsburgh for Grabow, Gorzelanny http://www.ESPNChicago.com
via mlbtr
That's not a bad deal for you guys
Ascanio and Hart have both looked great at the major league level this year.
"That pitch wasn’t down and in, that pitch was down and up." Tim McCarver
by wrigleyrocker12 on Jul 30, 2009 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions
trade
The Pittsburgh Pirates today announced that they have acquired right-handed pitchers Kevin Hart and Jose Ascanio and infielder Josh Harrison from the Chicago Cubs organization in exchange for left-handed pitchers John Grabow and Tom Gorzelanny. The announcement was made by Pirates Senior Vice President, General Manager Neal Huntington.
No idea
good or bad?
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Harrison is a 10-20 prospect for Cubs
And the other two have looked solid in limited time.
I was really hoping for Jay Jackson
Who are these guys?
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
cubs players
im not familiar with Harrison, but ascanio did alright when they brought him up earlier this year. Kevin hart has pitched about as well as can be expected in his past few starts.
---AC 00 00 00 - Believe
Harrison could turn into a good player
Can play a few positions, and has the potential to have 280+ average and 20+ home runs. Hart has a little trouble with walks, and Ascanio has looked good in the majors.
"That pitch wasn’t down and in, that pitch was down and up." Tim McCarver
by wrigleyrocker12 on Jul 30, 2009 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions
How many 5'8" players...
have the potential to hit 20 HRs?? Color me highly doubtful on that scouting report.
Mike Fontenot
Was on pace for it last year.
"That pitch wasn’t down and in, that pitch was down and up." Tim McCarver
by wrigleyrocker12 on Jul 30, 2009 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Not to mention
It was a typo that was supposed to read 10+ anyway.
"That pitch wasn’t down and in, that pitch was down and up." Tim McCarver
by wrigleyrocker12 on Jul 30, 2009 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Dang!
Is that today?
He’d be a perfect fit for Veal. Can we trade Veal away?
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Almost as good
as Grabow does. Glad we have him to load the bases then get out…oh, nevermind
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
Bummed we're not gettin Flaherty or Jackson
But Kevin Hart is million times better than Vasquez
Hart
what position does he play?
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Hart and Ascanio are starting pitchers. Harrison is a second baseman, but DK is saying he’s not in the deal.
via MLBTR
Cubs press release included Harrison
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gorzo
Isn’t gonna hold back when asked about the deal. I think he’s from chicago,b ut grew up a sox fan.
I know nothing of these players we just got in return.
Good day.
Vazquez wasnt in any long-term plans
and I dont see why we should be trading for short term fill-ins
that said, i havent a clue what we are getting in those 3.
So we got a couple MLB ready guys?
Will that keep the “I’m done with this team” fanshots/posts down after this trade?
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Sickels
http://www.minorleagueball.com/2008/11/29/675375/chicago-cubs-top-20-prospe
Has Harrison in “others”
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Damn, I really liked Ascanio, he was really good when he was in the Bigs this year.
Kevin Hart doesn’t have that much of a ceiling, but he’s an adequate 5 starter who knows how to bat. Damn, really can’t believe they let Ascanio go.
Hart
Assets
Has a good frame for a hurler and a pretty solid arsenal of pitches. Can start or relieve and understands the art of pitching.
Flaws
Doesn’t own overpowering stuff as a starter, so his strikeout total are a little sub-par when in that role. Must cut down on his walk total.
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Gorzo
going to Class AAA Iowa according to DK
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
Hart got the win today, BTW
Interesting to see the front of Bleed Cubbie Blue:
http://www.bleedcubbieblue.com/2009/7/30/968904/first-pitch-thread-cubs-vs-astros
Ascanio
Assets
Has a live arm and the repertoire to be an effective reliever. Proved capable of serving as a closer in the minors.
Flaws
Needs to settle down more so as to avoid serving up a lot of walks at the big-league level. Is a little too hittable.
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Hold on, is the trade Harrison, Hart and Ascanio for Grabow and Gorzo, or just Hart and Ascanio for Grabow and Gorzo?
Because I’ve heard both reports now, and I don’t know which one is true.
By the way
Hart pitched today
IP H R ER BB SO HR PC-ST ERA
6.0 6 3 3 2 4 2 102-65 2.60
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
Not convinced this is a win
I don’t mind the return, from what I can see, but I’m not sure that it’s worth more than the 2 we had in hand.
If Hart
turns out to be better than Gorzo, then I call it a win. If not then it will be tough to tell until down the road
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
I think that ends up being the key to the deal
(if nothing else, seems like NH like Hart more than Gorzo)
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Of course
But I’m dubious – he doesn’t look obviously likely to be better than Gorzo. Plus, as a righty, inherently less valuable.
Look, if we get 6 years of Hart as a reliable 4-5 guy, then it’s worth it (barring Gorzo showing 3 years as a 2-3 guy, which is certainly possible, and clearly worth more). But that’s a lot to assume right now.
The other guys are warm bodies – neither one looks likely to be an above-average MLer, although of course that could change.
Don't know much about these guys
have to do some reading. That said…
in NH I trust.
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I’d love to blindly trust NH, but I just don’t see any logic to this one. Grabow is arbitration eligible, but the Pirates have his rights. There’s just not much return here. And as disappointing as Gorzo has been due to work ethic/conditioning, he’s an MLB ready starter who’s rights are controlled for years. He could be a cheap filler in case of injury (or trade) and he still has some upside. There was no reason to dump him, unless he’s damaged goods with some undisclosed health issue under the radar, like so many players dealt to the Pirates at the deadline.
by chicos_pants on Jul 30, 2009 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Hart
is also a MLB-ready starter who’s rights are controlled for years.
Harrison is a MI, which we need.
Ascanio is a RH reliever who has the ability to close.
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Which equals
Ascanio > Grabow
Hart = Gorzo? (maybe better, maybe worse, don’t know yet)
Harrison, much needed therefore=plus addition
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
That's the upside prediction, I think.
Not convinced about Ascanio, from what little I’ve read.
Barring Hart exceeding expectations, it may hinge on Ascanio.
The Pirates actually don’t have Grabow’s rights next year. They can offer him arbitration, but he can decline and become a free agent.
Only if he declines and someone signs him
which I had my doubts he would do so and that anyone would forfeit a pick for him plus the money to sign him.
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
I don't want another year of Grabow
He is bound to have a bad season at any point
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
Which is why
you get rid of him on a good season instead of keeping on a year by year basis
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
He could be.
Grabow isn’t any better than other mid-level relievers who’ve gotten jammed up after declining arb, like Manzanillo or Cruz.
Any idea if any of these guys are coming straight onto the Pirates roster, or are they all heading somewhere in the minors?
I would guess Hart and Ascanio go into the rotation and the bullpen, respectively, and VV heads back to AAA.
Ascanio
currently heading to AAA
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10 percent
With Grabow and his salary gone, the Bucs 2009 team salary going forward will be 10 percent of the Yankees and close to half of the Marlins. The Marlins! Holy smokes, that is an unbelievable statistic.
Here’s hoping that the castoffs we’re getting will amount to more than the loveable losers they are replacing.
Just curious...
and unrelated to this trade…
is a .410 OBP good or bad?
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Good
really good In my opinion
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
Okay
just curious, because the Rockies want Nick Johnson and his .410 OBP bat as a bench bat (via MLBTR) and while that sounded ridiculous, I wanted to make sure…
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With
how much they are going to have to give up to get him (and I think he’s a free agent at the end of the year), I think it would be dumb to relegate him to the bench
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
Judgin from the minor league stats
Harrison is silimar to D’Arnuad with better contact
always
good to multiple options to protect from injury, flaming out, etc
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
Do they keep Hart in Pitt
and remove V-squared from the rotation now?
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Dejan
Hart will join the Pirates immediately. Ascanio will go to Class AAA Indianapolis, Harrison to Class A Lynchburg.
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You know, as much as I’m all in favor of this rebuilding plan, that really doesn’t look good at all. But oh well, money doesn’t buy wins
Yep
Just ask the Mets
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Funny
both starters from the Houston and Cubs game are no longer with the team they started for
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
I missed...
what happened to Ortiz?? Released??
Yep
unconditionally released after the game
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An easy prediction...
some time before the end of the season…Gorzo shuts out the Pirates on 4 hits.
Mister Haahhht
“Mister Hart, here is a dime. Take it, call your mother, and tell her there is serious doubt about you ever becoming a lawyer.”
Harrison
most of his time has come at 2nd base (until this season). Can we assume the Pirates move him back there?
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Isn't
Pedro moving to 1st eventually though?
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I’m anxiously awaiting to see what the PBC does with Pedro at the Arizona Instructional League this winter.
I was sure Pedro was a future 1B up till I’ve watched “Kung Fu Panda” Pablo Sandoval play 3B for the Giants the last couple weeks.
Surely Pedro can’t get as big as Sandoval?
Pahahahahaha
I saw Pedro a couple of weeks ago. Not happening.
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by Adam Bittner on Jul 30, 2009 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Always more valuable
to be able to play multiple positions.
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
Yinzers
are kinda angry on the PBC blog
Complaining about another doubles hitting 3rd baseman (even though he can play 2nd as well) and that Gorzo is better than Hart, and that Ascanio is garbage because he’s a middle reliever (essentially what Grabow was)
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
Well
they’ll complain about anything.
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Are you sure they're wrong?
Honestly, this smells like a trade for trading’s sake.
It would take the return guys maxing out potential and the going guys crapping (Nady/Marte style) out for this to pay off.
Grabow and Gorzo have both had very high walk rates in the majors the last couple years. It’s not hard to imagine them both flaming out.
Fair enough
It’s also easy to imagine Hart pitching about like Ohlendorf, Ascanio pitching like Jackson (or worse), and the fielder never even reaching the bigs.
These are not anything like can’t-miss guys.
They weren't
going to get can’t miss guys though. Unless Gorzo becomes a number 2 and Hart remains a number 5, this trade is at least equal on both sides
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
Right
They were going to get “Can’t Miss” guys from Grabow and a AAA pitcher.
AAA Pitcher?
Be serious. He’s been a 14 game winner, with better peripherals that year. There are issues, but if NH hadn’t been screwing around on his arbitration, he would have been starting in Pittsburgh since June.
Whatever the reasons
He’s been in AAA most of the past two years and when he’s been up here his ERA’s been over 6. If you thought you were getting anything of note for him you’re nuts. Now the argument could be made “why trade him in the first place?” but I think it’s obvious Neal doesn’t really think much of him
If Hart pitches like Ohlendorf...
…then that’s a win for us right there. Gorzo isn’t particularly likely to reach that level ever again, and Grabow is a middling reliever with bone chips in his elbow.
How do you figure
Grabow is a free agent at the end of the year and is basically a LOOGY. Ascanio has the ability to be better than him. Hart is doing good in the majors right now while Gorzo has started in the majors this year at all. They could end up equalling out and it would still be a win. Plus, the Pirates got a much needed MI
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
Gorzo hasn’t started because NH hasn’t wanted him to start. It has nothing to do with talent or aptitude. Gorzo’s ceiling is higher, IMO.
Grabow went 6 perfect batters yesterday. That is not LOOGY material.
The Pirates have MIs at A. What they lack is MIs at AA, AAA, or MLB.
I’m not saying it’s a terrible trade. I’m saying it feels like a mediocre trade, with a best-case* upside of “not much.”
- best realistic case, obviously. Gorzo gets run down by a bus tomorrow, and it becomes a big win
Grabow
is viewed as a LOOGY by everyone else. One good outing doesn’t change a pitchers status.
Better ceilings is debatable and will never be solved even 20 years later because of injuries and situations being factored in.
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
Dodgers have interest
in Capps.
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Yeah
no idea what they’re thinking, but if they’ll pay up, I’ll take it.
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Wait a minute
I can see the logic of trading Grabow, but Gorzo, a LH starter? For this? I haven’t had doubts about the money issue, but this is a bit reminiscient of a certain team cleaning house before selling itself. I’ve been a HUGE NH fan, pls help explain.
I'm guessing
NH is higher on Hart than Gorzo. Truthfully no idea though.
Or they know something about Gorzo that we don’t…
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Gorzo already has three years of service time, while Hart barely has one. Hart is about the same age and has been better in the minors recently. They’re probably not that far apart in value.
As far as Grabow goes, he’s not a great pitcher, so I’m happy that we got two useful players back for him.
Yep
seems like NH prefers Hart to Gorzo.
That leaves Grabow for Ascanio + Harrison
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The explanation:
Gorzo isn’t ever likely to pitch again the way that he pitched in 2007. He hasn’t shown the same type of stuff over the last two years, and he’s got persistent issues with both command and platoon splits. Also, he came to camp out of shape, and he’s dumb as a bag of hair, which limits his coachability.
A lot of people here are assuming that he’s a sure-fire rebound, and he’s not. He’s a back-of-the-rotation guy or lefty reliever, from here on out, most likely.
Looking at the PBC synopsis
of the three players the Bucs got, i feel like this could be a good deal. The Cubs fan don’t like it over at the SB Nation blog of theirs so that’s gotta be something
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
The smarter of the Cub fans I know...
…seem disappointed to be losing Ascanio, so that’s a good sign.
None of these three were really on my radar, so I can’t comment too much on what I think of it just yet.
Youse guys
came up with some funny sheaut in this thread. Only wish I’d been home from work to appreciate it & contribute.
That being said, I’m not sure I like this trade as much as the others.
Evaluation time is in order here.
Cheers,
cocktailsfor2
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
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