Grading Trades
by Bucko on Jul 31, 2009 2:39 AM EDT
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PrintI'm not trying to knock any of Neil the Hun's trades here, but as Jerry would say "What is the deal with all these instant trade grades??" I know we all want to be excited about what's happening right now, and I am. I truly believe this team is finally being set up to win in the future. (I just wish someone could explain it to my dad. The Old Man is killing me, smalls!)
But might'n it be true that ofttimes we get a bit carried away with the whole "BooYeah we fleeced those hosers!" or "What!?! Only four players for Bay. Oh well, his first half in '09 will probably only be comparable to Raul Ibanez's anyways, so no big loss."
I'm a big Tribe fan as well, and as I watch this dialogue develop, it reminds me a lot of what happened in '02 in Cleveland. Indians fan have never forgiven Mark Shapiro for trading Robbie Alomar. I mean, it was like a nuclear (or nukeyoolar, if you're from Texas) bomb went of in that town. "It's O.K.!" They said. "We got Alex Escobar, and he's going to make the Ken Griffey Jr. from Seattle look like the Ken Griffey Jr. from Cincinnati!!!" Alomar forgot how to play baseball immediately upon arriving in New York and Alex Escobar made it into the Guinness Book of World Records by injuring every part of the body a human is capable of injuring. As I recall, the total productivity of the 8 players involved in that trade plus a nickel will get you a hot cup of Jack Squat!!! I'm pretty sure Alomar and Escobar are currently living in a van, down by the river...
A couple of months later, Shapiro shipped the Dominican Buddha Bartolo Colon to Omar Minaya's Expos for Brandon Phillips (YYYYYYEEEEESSSSSSS!!! BOO YEAH!!!) and Lee Stevens and a couple of guys named Clifton Lee and Grady Sizemore. (Minaya later confessed he made the trade based on some advice he got from a sportswriter from New York. ( "If this works out as well as you say, I'll get you that job in the FO no problem!") Phillips was the guy who They said needed watching. Cliff Lee wasn't even considered that much of a steal until last season, which is impressive considering he won 46 games from '04-'06. He was good enough to get the contract he has now, but Grady was considered the jewel of that trade up until Cliff Lee suddenly decided to stop allowing runs.
So alls I'm saying is, let's be excited, but not get carried away with who "won" or "lost" on the day the trade is made. That just sounds way too close to Mel Kiper Jr. saying Reggie Bush-is-a-sure-fire Hall-of-Famer nonsense. Let's wait to grade til a little bit further down the road, when we can actually see , definitively, what we've got. It's cool that the Hun managed to trade Freddy for the Jints #3 prospect according to BA, but let's not forget that this is the same publication that said that Bud Smith was a better prospect than Albert Pujols...
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of the managing editor (Charlie) or SB Nation. FanPosts are written by Bucs Dugout readers.
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Thing is, these are the best trades we've made in 15 years.
We know not to judge them entirely until each player pans out, but you can’t really fault us for being excited.
Meh
This post is only B/B-.
Still the loving, adoptive father of Hector Sanchez. And who doesn't love switch-hitting catchers with power and patience?
Jack's mom hated Jack's trade
He traded their cow for some magic beans. It may look to some that they got beans, but they’ll plant those beans and judge later.
"The team that scores the most points wins."
John Madden
(Master of the obvious)
My Dad, too.
I am 27, and my Dad is 55. He hates the trades, and as hard as I try to explain why this is the only shot we have to be any good. He refuses to accept it. I think the he has been beaten down by 17 years of losing, and any rational thinking in regards to the pirates is impossible.
Same here
I’m 23 and my dad is 54 and he hasn’t been able to watch them lately because he has no idea who is on the field. I keep trying to explain to him this is different than what they did before NH got here, but he tends to think they’ve been doing the same thing for the last 17 years.
I think he may be turning the corner a little because Buster Olney actually said on ESPN radio yesterday that the Pirates are getting a ton of talent (Yes my dad takes ESPN guys somewhat seriously, I do not at all) and I told him good, but do not listen to ESPN about the Pirates. Listen to me or go to BucsDugout and read about what the Pirates are doing and how it is the best possible plan.
Ditto here.
My dad’s been on the whole “they’ve just been trading away their good players for 17 years” thing, but then I’ve had to explain to him that guys like Bay, Nady, LaRoche, Freddy, Jack, O. Perez, and Matt Morris were the guys they got in those trades that they made earlier.
He says that, “they never want to spend money,” then I have to remind him that they spent $60 million on Jason Kendall, $36 million on Pat Meares, $5 million for Derek Bell to hit .173, $6 million for Jeromy Burnitz to hit .230, etc.
Then I brought up the horrible first-round draft picks they’ve had: Sean Burnett, Bobby Bradley, John Van Benschoten, Chad Hermansen, Bryan Bullington, Clint Johnston, J.J. Davis, etc.
I laid out the arguments that FC/NH have brought about the initiative of building the club from within, getting max value from overachieving players and getting quality return to re-stock the minor league system, putting more money into more aggressive drafts, re-vamping minor league instruction, and better international scouting and developments in the Dominican Republic.
After I explained all of that, he just shook their head and said, “I guess these new guys are smart enough not to make the same mistakes the other guys did.”
"Straight ball I hit very much, but curveball, bats are afraid." - Pedro Cerrano
My dad
My dad can’t differentiate between Cam Bonifay, Dave Littlefield or Neil Huntington. To him it’s just “the Pirates.” I literally just had an argument with him as to whether Cutch will be roaming CF for the Mets in 3 years. All he can see is 17 years of losing. Nothing is going to change his mind until the Bucs start winning. I can’t even watch the games with him anymore. Honestly, I don’t even know what to say anymore.
And just to clarify, I wasn’t trying to say that we should not be excited for these trades, I just don’t like the practice of calling something a “win” or a “loss” the instant it happens, especially when we really won’t know for a while.
I'm with you, man
especially since so many nay-sayers are calling every trade a loss since they Pirates got prospects. How hard is this to understand: THEY ALL START OUT AS PROSPECTS! If we knew which ones would be Major Leaguers before they were, there would be no need for scouts.
People are morons.
But I hear you, dude. Way too early to call. But the fact that a new direction is being taken is reason enough for me to be happy.
"Straight ball I hit very much, but curveball, bats are afraid." - Pedro Cerrano
I agree with you to an extent
We know not all of these guys that the Pirates are getting will succeed. Some will turn out like Cliff Lee (hopefully) and some will turn out like Alex Escobar. But like ryebr3ad said above, these are easily the best trades the Pirates have made since they began losing in 1992. Some of us, like myself, are extremely excited because we think the Pirates actually have a chance to be successful in the future.
My dad hates the trades too
I’m 20 and hes 55. He at least understands the whole new management and plan thing, he just remembers the glory days and is frustrated by the lack of a salary cap (He’s a lawyer, haha.)
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Jul 31, 2009 2:58 PM EDT reply actions
Hey, I'm not the only one with this issue!
Being 19, I don’t know anything but losing, but even I sometimes get starry-eyed listening to him talk about watching the Pirates play Brooks Robinson and the Orioles in the WS and his memories of playoff games. He is as frustrated as anyone, but he has become willing to listen my explanations of why I believe in the trades, and what NH is doing. He is coming around, much like I believe alot of the fanbase will eventually, but he is willing to listen.
The glare of the spotlight is harsh, and the pressure that success breeds immense. We revere our heroes, but expect much. And criticism can come as easily as praise.
I have the same issue!
I am 23 and barely seen any winning baseball in my life, and i can see where this team is heading. My father is 53 and just like all of our fathers, he compares today’s baseball to the glory days of Clemente and Stargell. They just have to realize that the economy of baseball is so different from the golden days! Just keep pluggin away true bucco believers and the old timers will finally join us as we cheer future winners!
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