News Roundup: Sean Burnett, Post-Gazette Bash Bucs
by Charlie on Jul 31, 2009 12:44 PM EDT
336 comments
Some interesting stuff out there today, although I'm not sure how much of it I really care to read:
Cubs acquire lefties Grabow, Gorzelanny | MLB.com: News
Dave Littlefield, who's now a scout for the Cubs, watched Tom Gorzelanny and feels that Gorzo is "back on the path" to being a successful starting pitcher. Which, naturally, means that Gorzelanny will never pitch in the big leagues again. It's simply stunning that the Cubs are using Littlefield to defend this move. Of course the move is defensible for them on a couple of different grounds, but Dave Littlefield's opinion of Gorzelanny isn't one of them.
Tabata will be promoted to Indianapolis, Alvarez will finish year with Altoona - PBC Blog - post-gazette.com
After a strong July at Altoona, Jose Tabata has been promoted to Indianapolis, where he'll get a taste of Class AAA baseball before the season ends.
Burnett: Pirates the 'laughingstock of baseball'
Washington Nationals reliever Sean Burnett, who, incidentally, plays for the Washington Nationals, called the Pirates the "laughingstock of baseball." Incidentally, he then went back to pitching for the Washington Nationals.
Waiting game: For loyal Pirates fans, the present never comes
The Post-Gazette's editorial board writes that although a lot of the players the Bucs have traded actually stunk, and a lot of the talent they got back is quite good, these moves were still about payroll. The P-G's editorial board has written this piece before, and I've responded to it before, and it can't be good for either of us to be repeating ourselves like this, but the amount of love people suddenly have for these 67-win teams is kind of amazing.
The P-G actually suggests here that, in June 2008, the Pirates should have complemented their "proven stars," most of whom were not actually stars and would have become free agents after 2009, with "impact players." The distance from reality here is simply incredible. Although I'm not opposed to the Pirates signing big-name free agents if they can somehow lure good players to Pittsburgh without committing to long-term contracts or blocking promising youngsters or losing their nerve about the rebuilding process, it's ridiculously hard for bad teams to sign "impact players," and the Pirates in 2008 didn't have the prospects to trade for them, either--not that they should have been trading prospects in any case. It's also highly unlikely that the Pirates could have gotten most of their existing players to stick around beyond 2009. Not even the Boston Red Sox have been successful so far in signing Jason Bay to an extension. The P-G's plan is, frankly, an absurd fantasy that would have devastating effects for the franchise, ruin the Bucs for 2011 and beyond, while probably not making them much better in any year except 2009. Whatever Bob Nutting's motivations right be, he's taking his best chance to produce a winner here.
Anybody have an opinion about whether I should continue linking these? It blows my mind that the baseball coverage in the Post-Gazette can be so good and the baseball opinion pieces can be so stupid. Right now I feel like the P-G is too big to just ignore, but every time they publish one of these ham-handed pieces they seem a bit more like a tabloid to me.
There's lots of ugliness out there today, clearly, not only from the Nationals' clubhouse and from the Post-Gazette, but here in the comments and FanPosts as well. People are entitled to their opinions, of course, but it's tricky when we suddenly have a lot of new readers who have never commented at all, and then put up FanPosts that are just "I'M DONE WITH THIS TEAM" rants. I'm not going to take these down unless people are obviously trolling or spamming or doing something inappropriate (and we've had a couple of those in the past 24 hours). And it's tough to even get rid of those when I check BD in the morning and they have 30 comments that people have taken time to think about.
So here's my advice. If you see a FanPost you like, click the "recommend" button. If several people do that, it'll go into a special section above the regular FanPosts called Recommended Fanposts. That way, people will know it's quality. Of course, sometimes I also promote FanPosts to the front page, but it's not always possible to do that with all the ones I like, usually because they're not formatted properly or I already have a post on a similar topic. So in the meantime, you'll be doing fellow BD readers a favor by using the "recommend" feature.
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I"M DONE WITH THIS EDITORIAL PAGE!!!!!
Sorry . . . I couldn’t resist
by chicos_pants on Jul 31, 2009 12:51 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Hey, at least one of our former relievers has some sense of reality and dignity. Seriously, it’s nice to see a player who actually sees what we’re going for.
Anyway, I vote no to talking about PG opinion pieces. If we just stop talking about it, and other people do too, maybe it will go away or plunge deeper into insignificance.
charity standing orders
by BadMaafala on Jul 31, 2009 12:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i disagree
i think we should have a forum where people put forth reasonable arguments that other reasonable people can follow to figure out why what is going on is good. It will attract the fair share of trolls, and perhaps a lot of unnecessary arguments, but it would be sad if the PG just got away with what they were doing, and people discounted bucsdugout.com because they have an agenda against the PPG opinions and are too snooty to cover it.
Perhaps some people will be convinced who wouldn’t otherwise have been- hey, maybe they’ll be convinced a year later, and be like, “hey, werent the chaps on bucs dugout saying this would happen? Well, it happened! So maybe they have a better point than the PG!” Not saying this will happen, but word-of-mouth is very important. If we convince say 5 guys out of 20K yinzers, maybe those 5 guys talk to their friends, and so on… at the very least, we’ll have healthy debate going on. Unfortunately, if you choose to ignore the PG, then you lose some credibility as snooty, and you lose the opportunity to convince a few people. For an organization as starved of support as the Pirates, this could be crucial.
by BurgherKing on Jul 31, 2009 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is the correct path.
The only way to deal with the darkness of ignorance is to expose it fully to the light of a robust open discourse. If you allow the ill-informed opinion to go unchallenged, it often wins by default.
"Never mistake motion for action." - Ernest Hemingway
by SubLime on Jul 31, 2009 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree
They are blaring obnoxious opinions to stir things up – trolling from their blog. The way to deal with trolls is not to refute them the the righteous truth, but to ignore them. How many times have we seen people come to this site and post their opinions loudly and not even participate in any of the dialog that follows? That’s what Smizik is doing, and no matter how many comments we type on his blog or how many refutations Charlie posts here, he’s not going to stop until people stop listening to him.
charity standing orders
by BadMaafala on Jul 31, 2009 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
To me
it is sort of like having good intelligence — one must be acutely aware of what the other side is doing in order to defeat it. The reason I find this site to be far superior to others is that I detect an “informed militancy” here. Militants need something to fight against. They must never let the other side rest.
"Never mistake motion for action." - Ernest Hemingway
by SubLime on Jul 31, 2009 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ironically, the militancy and the need to correct everyone people disagree with are the things that annoy me the most about this site – although I’m not saying I don’t do it myself. At some level we’re just punching a tar baby over and over.
charity standing orders
by BadMaafala on Jul 31, 2009 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Might well be true.
Hell, we act like we have an audience with some power to do something!
"Never mistake motion for action." - Ernest Hemingway
by SubLime on Jul 31, 2009 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t know what makes us come off as more “snooty” – ignoring stupid articles that will surface as long as people pay attention to them or finding every stupid article that the PPG posts and systematically refuting it. Personally, I don’t read much on the PPG site outside of DK, so I get a little weary of reading Charlie’s half of the conversation over and over again, even though there’s clearly no internet dialogue going on between him and the non-DK guys at the PPG. I guess I’m okay with mentioning the blog’s stupidity from time to time, but maybe keeping it under a paragraph and not getting too worked up about it.
charity standing orders
by BadMaafala on Jul 31, 2009 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure- to this i agree
my point is, if you just turn away, then its understandable people will just go with what they find- for lack of a better opinion. I m not saying explain over and over again why this is right. I m just saying, let them know you why you think the PPG is wrong, put a link to an older post that brings forth these points and leave it at that.
Give people the counter-view, let them decide- if they want clarifications, between all of us, I m sure someone will find time to clarify. Let people make an informed judgment, or at least give them the opportunity to do so.
by BurgherKing on Jul 31, 2009 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Amen to that
At least Grabow has some class. Burnett and Morgan just lost my respect. Don’t be mediocre for a mediocre team and then talk trash when you leave. Bush League.
"Straight ball I hit very much, but curveball, bats are afraid." - Pedro Cerrano
by silencerdu on Jul 31, 2009 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
PG opinion pieces are done to stir the pot. Let’s stick with the reporters who do a good job covering the team and forget about the morons 2 cubes over who have no idea what is going on.
by vanslyke on Jul 31, 2009 12:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The truly depressing thing
about the PG is that not two months ago the Penguins gave the city a perfect example of how to build a winner out of crap: draft well and get lucky (it helps a hell of a lot when you have the No. 1 draft pick AND that pick is Sidney Crosby) and make astute trades at the right time, dealing off fan favorites in some cases for players who could actually help. I know it’s not a perfect analogy — the NHL has much better cost controls, and hockey teams have smaller rosters and farm systems — but it’s right there.
You also don’t usually see the Steelers running around signing big-money free agents and such foolishness. You see the Cowboys and Redskins do that, and what’s it get them? The Steelers draft well and often cut bait on popular players who still appear to have a little in the tank, and they’re not often wrong about those players.
Oh yeah, the Steelers once went 40 years without winning a damn thing. Talk to me about the Pirates being a joke in 2032.
by bucdaddy on Jul 31, 2009 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pre-salary cap, the Pens dealt a lot of fan favorites like Jagr. And people were pissed and complaining about how the Pens sucked and they should have spent money to keep him.
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
by Green_Wave on Jul 31, 2009 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd like to have a dollar
for every Pens fan who ever said “I’M THROUGH WITH THEM!” I’ll split it with you and we’ll both be rich.
by bucdaddy on Jul 31, 2009 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I live in DC. Trust me, the only baseball related laughingstock around here is the Gnats. Kudos to Captain Morgan on a good July, but this organization’s approach to building is like the 2002 Bucs. It’s really hilarious, especially as they move towards pissing away their second consecutive top shelf pick. The Lerners are God’s gift to Nutting — he’ll never be the worst MLB owner.
by chicos_pants on Jul 31, 2009 12:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Proven stars...
Infrequent poster here… just have one simple question for those idiots who continue to maintain that the team, in its previous form, had a chance at true contention. If we were really on the cusp of contention, then why is it that, aside from Bay, none of the guys we traded away are top players on their new teams?
Nady requires no explanation, McLouth is maybe the 3rd best bat on a Braves team sitting two games above .500 and 7 games out of first. LaRoche, well, that goes without saying — even the yinzers wanted him gone. Jack Wilson isn’t the savior for the Mariners, and Freddy’s not going to be the Giants’ centerpiece (another team that doesn’t exactly light up the scoreboard). I would argue that Bay is the closest thing there was to a “star” on the 2008 team, and while he’s doing nicely in Boston, that’s a team that’s still searching pretty hard for a centerpiece bat (hence the Victor Martinez rumors), and we know they don’t love him for his glove.
Besides, if we keep Nady, we’ve still got Yoslan going out there every 5 days…
by Jeffasaurus on Jul 31, 2009 1:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
You’re thinking. That’s your mistake.
You have to engage in visceral thinking.
by CptnAwesome on Jul 31, 2009 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ahhhh, I knew I was missing something.
by Jeffasaurus on Jul 31, 2009 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
For the love of god
Please do not try to impose logic on the ignorant and stupid.
Good day.
by Uncle Nate on Jul 31, 2009 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And Bay
Is becomming a non-factor as well…
by God Loves on Jul 31, 2009 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The "Build Around Bay" Scenario
One of the favorite fantasies at the PBC Blog, one that Dejan has pushed a lot, is the notion that they should have extended Bay, signed a couple pitchers, and . . . I don’t know, won championships I guess.
Part of the problem with this, of course, is the notion that Nutting just had to snap his fingers and Bay would have been extended. The Red Sox can’t even get him extended.
Even worse, for the Pirates to have extended him, assuming it was even possible, would have meant at least five years at probably over $15M per year. That could have been a disaster. Here’s Bay’s monthly OPS this year:
1.123
.978
.701
.683
Looks pretty damn similar to his 2007 collapse, doesn’t it? Maybe those knees aren’t holding up? If the Pirates had signed Bay to a big extension, they could have found themselves with a huge albatross as early as the first or second year of the deal. That’s death for any but the very wealthiest teams.
The thing is, you can look around MLB and find bad contracts all over the place, yet it’s utterly impossible to get it through the ultra-thick skulls of people like whoever wrote that editorial, or the fans who wail endlessly about the team’s payroll, that a huge portion of running a team now is the successful management and finessing of player ages and contract commitments. To varying degrees, that’s what’s behind most of the moves the Pirates are making. But to the average fan and empty-headed PG editor, if a player is really good now, you can assume he’ll be really good in five years.
by WTM on Jul 31, 2009 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
And the worse part is
If he falls of the cliff in the next year or so, those people will never admit NH made the right move and will just conveniently ignore that the player is no good anymore. And that if he had been extended then the team would be stuck overpaying for a past his prime average to above average player.
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
by Green_Wave on Jul 31, 2009 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Freddy Sanchez, anyone?
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Aug 1, 2009 6:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not only that
Have you seen the free agent pitchers who were available last offseason? Well I know you have, I’m speaking rhetorically. People were thinking John Garland or Braden Looper were our ticket to the playoffs? Please
by TravisDW on Jul 31, 2009 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely right. I have Bay on a couple fantasy teams (yes, I know nobody wants to hear about anyone’s fantasy team), so I can tell you exactly how brutal he’s been lately. Granted, he’s always been a streaky hitter, but guys don’t discover fountains of youth in their 30’s. And remember of course that he’s playing in a park tailor-made for his swing and less-than-stellar defense… imagine how much more dismal that could look at PNC.
Btw, I love DK’s coverage, but if I see him type “the most productive outfield in the first half of 2008” one more time, I think I might vomit.
by Jeffasaurus on Jul 31, 2009 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm in the same boat, dude
He’s been pissing the bed since June 1, and my team is getting killed now.
I’m convinced that AL pitchers are learning how to pitch to him. He can’t hit anything below the thigh level. He pounds them into the ground. Pitch him low in the zone and he’ll either ground out or swing over it.
"Straight ball I hit very much, but curveball, bats are afraid." - Pedro Cerrano
by silencerdu on Jul 31, 2009 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i dont think its entirely true
but i dont think Bay is as good as his first 2-3 months, which is why I picked the crawfords and brauns ahead of him
by BurgherKing on Jul 31, 2009 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s actually worse than Yoslan every 5 days.
By my count, we’d be starting THREE of Yoslan, Snell, Van Benschoten, Gorzelanny, Bullington, Phil Dumatriat when he is back and whoever else they can scrape out of AAA if we did not make the trades.
Even with a big pitching free agent you still need to start from that group 40% of the time.
by Gorkys n' Beans on Jul 31, 2009 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good point… for some reason I didn’t include Morton in my tally of new guys we got from trades. I was still assuming VV would be out there, though. Not that he’s any better.
by Jeffasaurus on Jul 31, 2009 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sean Burnett would have been the ace of that staff and he should never have been made a reliever anyway.
Honestly, he really does believe that, I’m sure.
by RDV across the sea on Jul 31, 2009 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kudos to Morgan
for playing it straight. Burnett is a moron – pot meet kettle.
by vanslyke on Jul 31, 2009 1:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Pirates willing to listen via MLB Trade Rumors
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
by Green_Wave on Jul 31, 2009 1:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
But it seems clear that around June 2008, the ownership had two choices on how to rebuild this team: spend money to buy impact players to fill in the gaps around its proven stars..
Stars? Bay and who else?
I’d doubt that even FA pickups of Teixeira, Sabathia, and Burnett could have put us in the playoffs. And that’s not financially reasonable for anyone except the NY teams and Boston.
by Gorkys n' Beans on Jul 31, 2009 1:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It’s been my experience that people think adding a guy like Tex or Manny would bring 15 or more wins to the Pirates.
Granted, I’ve only heard a few people say that, but they seem to think that when the rest of your team is so bad, adding one impact bat will let bad teams win a ton of games.
by CptnAwesome on Jul 31, 2009 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That last sentence was a trainwreck.
by CptnAwesome on Jul 31, 2009 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know
The perception going into 2008 was that the Pirates at least were at least feilding major league baseball players at every position. I think a lot of folks went into 2008 thinking that if the team could hit, they might make a run. Then Gorzo and Snell turned into head cases and the pitching went into the tank.
The NL Central Sucks. If you look at the players they had last year, maybe if you add a pitcher or two they might have had a chance to compete. They clearly decided not to do that. You can’t fault the decision, the managment properly evaluated the current talent. But you can’t blame people for being frustrated. It feels like they didn’t even try. Probably because they didn’t.
I understand what’s happening, but I can’t tell you that I’ll be excited to go watch it 10 or 15 more times this season. It seems silly to me that the teams front office can so obviously punt on a season and a half of baseball and expect their fan base to not be a bit disillusioned. Of course my ticket rep did say something about free club tickets, so there is that.
"I honestly think the "Spread HD" is going to work pretty well, and we’ll be just fine this year". - 8-27-2008
by jesse. on Jul 31, 2009 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lol
I always think that the pirates could make a run at the play-offs every year based on
IFs
If the pirates pitching is stable…
If the pirates bat well throughout the whole year and score more runs
If the other teams in the NL Central Struggle
Then the pirates would make the play-offs…
Of course * Pops Balloon * …it hasn’t happened yet.
by lfhlaw on Jul 31, 2009 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You may be right...
But how do you know if you don’t even try?
I don’t think it’s stupid to have thought in 2008 that the pitching staff would have maintained it’s performance. Further, the NL Central isn’t going to suck forever. 85 or 90 wins might win it this year, who is to say that it will in 2011? Point being, there was an opportunity to compete today, and to blow it off in favor of an opportunity to compete later with a list of guys who may or may not be better…well, it’s not a guarantee.
What bothers me is that for all the talk about “changing the culture” the management seems to have taken the position that it’s futile to try a win. I didn’t think that at the start of last season, and I didn’t think it at the start of this season.
I’m not a fool, I know the Pirates are not going to sign Sabathia or Texeria. I’m not even advocating that they try. It’s just that I’ve seen no indication that they ever considered trying to do anything to improve from 2008 to 2009.
"I honestly think the "Spread HD" is going to work pretty well, and we’ll be just fine this year". - 8-27-2008
by jesse. on Jul 31, 2009 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You can hope for the best
but you should always prepare for the worse. If NH keeps those guys and makes run at the playoffs in one year it more than likely bites him in the Ass and he doesn’t get as much of a return on anyone and sets back the rebuilding process. It’s good to hope that the best can happen, but it’s better to prepare for the worst that can happen.
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
by Green_Wave on Jul 31, 2009 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okay
What should they have done then? Please do tell. Keep in mind that after this season Nady and Bay are both gone for nothing. And then Sanchez and Wilson are gone after that for nothing. You’re promoting maybe having an 85 win season and sneaking into the playoffs for a quick exit? You want to do the KC Royals method of spooging a barely over .500 season and then back to obscurity? No thanks
And if you’re going to say “Add free agents” I want specific free agents, because as someone else pointed out, outside of CC and a couple others this free agent class sucked, especially the pitchers
by TravisDW on Jul 31, 2009 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What you do is sign Bay/Nady/Sanchez/Wilson until they are 38 and hope they maintain their peak production. If Bonds can be productive at an advanced age…
by Gorkys n' Beans on Jul 31, 2009 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know
Do the Nady deal, which was a steal, but not the Bay deal. You don’t think the Red Sox pony up Brandon Moss at the trading deadline this year to get Bay if the Pirates are out of contention?
Where would the harm be in that?
"I honestly think the "Spread HD" is going to work pretty well, and we’ll be just fine this year". - 8-27-2008
by jesse. on Jul 31, 2009 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dunno, the way he’s hitting now you may have only been able to get Brandon Moss back
by TravisDW on Jul 31, 2009 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You don't get it
Respectfully, the Bay deal was much more about Morris & Andy LaRoche than Hansen & Moss.
And that is correct: they don’t get half the return for Bay this year as they did last year. Look at Halladay: if the Jays don’t deal him by 4:00 today the talk is that his trade value will be about 40% of what it is right now.
I don’t fault you for your frustration, but there wasn’t a practical, realistic plan for competing in ‘08 or ’09 that wouldn’t put us back in a deep rut; and the potential benefit was so small. Contrast that with the present where by 2011 we figure to field an interesting, young team with upside that could be competitive for many years, and with a farm system that should allow for sustainability.
Good day.
by Uncle Nate on Jul 31, 2009 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jason Bay is barely more valuable than Andy LaRoche this year due to his horrible defense and, as WTM pointed out above, his June/July collapse.
Fangraphs has Bay at 1.7 Wins above replacement, Andy 1.4. Moss and Jose Bautista are both 0.7. So by doing that trade we lost .3 wins and got rid of a breaking down player whose contract was up.
by Gorkys n' Beans on Jul 31, 2009 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Bay isn’t dealt last year, then his value drops because he is only available for one playoff push/run instead of two. It would be a two month rental and thus, less value unless he was hitting like Albert Pujols, which he is not.
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
by Green_Wave on Jul 31, 2009 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What you're suggesting
is to just do the the deal that worked out the best and not do the ones that didn’t work out so well, which is cheating.
Which of this year’s do you do/not do?
by maguro on Jul 31, 2009 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's sort of cheating...sure
But My point is that it seems like there has been a bull-rush to offload players. I truly believe that either Snell or Gorzo is going to break back into the majors and be productive and we’ll regret the deal. My understanding, was that they could not bring Gorzo back to the majors because he was close to becoming arbitration eligible. Snell, they simply gave up on. Both of those guys have shown they can be major league starting pitchers.
To answer your question, I’d do Morgan, but probably not Wilson/Snell.
"I honestly think the "Spread HD" is going to work pretty well, and we’ll be just fine this year". - 8-27-2008
by jesse. on Jul 31, 2009 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Your belief.....
is misplaced. But more importantly, you haven’t addressed the 23 or so players we got back among other things.
by dtoddwin on Jul 31, 2009 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe
But your unflinching allegance to the present plan is no better then anybody elses idea. We’re all lost in the desert here, nobody knows the way out, there are only theories. Nobody knows for sure what NH is doing is going to work. To present it as the only way is folly.
Seriously, your going to show me some statistic that proves Andy LaRoche is better than Jason Bay? And I’m stupid for questioning it? Come on.
You want NH to be right, hell, so do I. But he might be totally full of shit too. In the alternative, he might win 90 games in a season the Cubs win 102 and the Cardinals win 98. What’s the difference? The division sucks now, there is an opportunity in that. They passed on it. Without even trying. We all hope they we’re right in doing so.
"I honestly think the "Spread HD" is going to work pretty well, and we’ll be just fine this year". - 8-27-2008
by jesse. on Jul 31, 2009 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It would have been even more folly
to assume that the division would suck next year so there would be a chance to win it with 90 wins. You can’t assume that at all and it’s stupid to think that could have been forseen.
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
by Green_Wave on Aug 1, 2009 12:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It it easier to predict wheter the Cubs will be good this year...
or in 2011?
I get that we all want NH to be right in his assesments. But at the same time he is so god damn smart, he can’t recognize that the division is going to suck ass this year?
They didn’t even try. Maybe total capitualtion is the right move, but lets call it what it is. Total capitualtion.
"I honestly think the "Spread HD" is going to work pretty well, and we’ll be just fine this year". - 8-27-2008
by jesse. on Aug 1, 2009 1:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No one expects them to win the division in 2011...
That is, theoretically, the first year this new era or Pirates will be competitive. The difference is: While the 08 team may or may not have been able to compete that year, the 2011 team will be able to compete for many years to come. They also will be followed by a steady stream of legit prospects from the draft and trades.
By trying to compete for one year (which unless the best case scenario happen, is laughable) they would have blown the whole rebuilding process. A complete demolition of the inherited team was the plan NH had from the beginning and step 1 is complete.
"So you think 25 percent of the country is retarded?! Yea. Atleast 25 percent. Well lets so a sample. There are 4 of us an you're retarded. Thats 25 percent." Southpark; Mystery of the Urinal Deuce
by gorillakilla34 on Aug 1, 2009 8:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah and if
Grandma had balls, she’d be Grandpa!
"Straight ball I hit very much, but curveball, bats are afraid." - Pedro Cerrano
by silencerdu on Jul 31, 2009 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The 08 free agent class had no one in it, so even with an unlimited budget Neal couldn’t have improved us for last season when he inherited the team.
The 09 class had some studs. But like others have said here, Sabathia and Tex aren’t +15 win players. They are both about in the 5-6 range. Even at an aggressive 7 wins each, the two of them would pull us close to .500 but still not near the playoffs.
by Gorkys n' Beans on Jul 31, 2009 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Alternate Universe
In the Post-Gazette editors’ alternate universe, the 2008 Pirates were a young team of mostly 30-year-old position players poised on the verge of a dynasty after coming off a series of 95-loss seasons. In this same alternate universe, any owner with a modest-revenue team, an empty farm system and a checkbook can sign the premium free agents he needs to put together a championship team. After all, it’s been done by lots of teams, like . . . uh . . . um . . . well, I’m just sure it’s been done.
by WTM on Jul 31, 2009 1:22 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
My question for the PG
Suppose that we kept the 2008 “core” in place (Nady, Bay, McLouth, etc) and supplemented it with one good SP and a star corner IF, both via free agency. I know I was in the minority, but I thought that doing so would have made the team a legitimate pre-season NL central & wild card contender.
However, continuing that scenario, suppose that anything – anything at all – goes haywire and we need to add a player or two via trade during mid-season. How would we do that? The only way would be by trading one of our very few worthwhile prospects (Cutch, Pedro, maybe Lincoln if healthy; and I think that’s it).
Okay, so then in the most optimistic scenario, we finish 8 games over 500 and make the wild card one time, losing the first playoff series. Then 2010 hits and which path does the editorial board of the PG suggest that we take: (a) we manage to keep a couple of the key components, essentially by making irresponsible decisions, are left with part of a team that barely qualified for the playoffs, and no help/trade chips coming from the minors for at least 2 years, no free agent help because we’re broke and essnetially another 5 years of misery guaranteed, doing god know what to the health of the franchise; or (b) we let everyone go because we can’t afford to keep them and start another 5 year plan with a wholly decimated minor and major league systems?
Again, I think that is the best case scenario and strong arguments can be made that it is overly optimistic.
Bottom line: it’s easy for the PG and casual observers to make decisions when they don’t know, consider or care about the consquences. The current plan is the best option; let’s just hope that the execution is competent this time.
Good day.
by Uncle Nate on Jul 31, 2009 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So to follow up my own post
The track the Bucs are on now is not only the surest path to success, but also the fastest path – unless you are the Yankees or Red Sox – and even those two teams have put death grips on even their mediocre prospects like Ian Kennedy and Phil Hughes in a nod to the method NH & FC are employing.
It is all about execution.
Good day.
by Uncle Nate on Jul 31, 2009 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Littlefield
The Man Formerly Known as Baseball’s Worst GM was at the West Virginia game at Hagerstown last night. He looked glum and bored while Duke Welker was nearly blowing a six-run lead.
by WTM on Jul 31, 2009 1:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Sean Burnett's comments are a complete joke.
I apologize for not elaborating and posting something meaningful, but I don’t really think anyone on here needs to be told why.
by DITO on Jul 31, 2009 1:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Do you blame him?
He was completly shafted last year out of spring training… He owes the Pirates nothing.
by psunate77 on Jul 31, 2009 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, he owes the Pirates for drafting
and putting up with his worthless bust of an ass for as long as we did. We owe him nothing.
by ryebr3ad on Aug 1, 2009 1:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The P-G and ESPN do the same thing and don’t actually logically analyze trades, but if we start winning in a few years they are going to say we did it the right way for a small market team by building up the system.
by javanjbrown on Jul 31, 2009 1:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Both those news outlets seem to have a shotgun approach when it comes to the pirates. and the chatterbox was absolutely horrendous yesterday.
People were grading their teams like A-F. And the pirates got an ‘F’ several times from people which annoyed the hell out of me because they’re not looking at the BIG picture.
by lfhlaw on Jul 31, 2009 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Prospects
I don’t mind getting these prospects and understands what management is trying to do, but whose to say huntington and the gang knows how to judge talent and we will be in the same situation in 2 years. We’ll have tabata or alvarez a couple good stars like nady and bay were and then rebuild again? Just a thought….
by baseballssp3 on Jul 31, 2009 2:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Nady is not a star in any sense.
Nady and Bay are both about to be 31.
In “2 years”, like you said, Alvarez will be 24 and Tabata will be 22.
Theres a large difference there, and I believe Neal will give money and a contract to mid 20 year olds over 30 year olds
by Jett on Jul 31, 2009 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We don't know.
But he can’t be any worse than Littlefield or Bonifay. Just the fact that he had the stones to blow up the roster proves that.
"Straight ball I hit very much, but curveball, bats are afraid." - Pedro Cerrano
by silencerdu on Jul 31, 2009 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Looks like
the Sox are getting Victor Martinez…which means Adam LaRoche has even less of role, unless he is somehow involved in the deal
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
by Green_Wave on Jul 31, 2009 2:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
by Green_Wave on Jul 31, 2009 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What a shame
Steelers - Immaculate Reception. Penguins - Immaculate Rejection. Pirates......Immaculate Resurrection???
by JR89 on Jul 31, 2009 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And not
there are people saying Buchholz and Bard aren’t in the deal. The Indians better have gotten Westmoreland and/or Lars or they got screwed.
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
by Green_Wave on Jul 31, 2009 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
1:35pm: MLB.com’s Jonathan Mayo says pitchers Nick Hagadone and Justin Masterson are in the deal.
by biggyv on Jul 31, 2009 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's not bad
Masterson is good, and Hagadone is supposed to be good but I don’t know much more about him. They should probably get a bat back also to make it a good deal.
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
by Green_Wave on Jul 31, 2009 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rumor is
Red Sox have a deal to send Mario to the Mets once they get Martinez
by OlStubbleBeard on Jul 31, 2009 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Braves are reportedly interested
Link
This is just hilarious. He may end up back with the Braves after everything
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
by Green_Wave on Jul 31, 2009 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Done deal now
according to MLB Trade Rumors (which is using twitter as their source)
Link
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
by Green_Wave on Jul 31, 2009 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And tomorrow is supposed to be Victor Martinez bobble-head night in Cleveland according to MLB network…now that’s funny
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
by Green_Wave on Jul 31, 2009 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Final deal
Masterson, Hagadone, and Bryan Price for Victor Martinez
All pitchers for a catcher/1B.
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
by Green_Wave on Jul 31, 2009 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry, Charlie. I guess I lost my temper yesterday. I’ll take a deep breath.
by chodan11 on Jul 31, 2009 2:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Makes you wonder....
what the P-G’s agenda might be. They obviously have one. Maybe it just gives them something to write about either way,especially with the annual Steeler info tsunami arriving…
by havildar on Jul 31, 2009 2:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Laughing Stock
Obviously, it’s the Royals who are the laughing stock of baseball, followed closely by the Mets and Nationals (although the Mets are showing signs of life). The Pirates are doing everything right right now. Nobody seems to realize we are in the post Tampa Bay Rays era. This is what small market teams must do now, and Pittsburgh had a LONG way to go at the beginning of the season. Now, they have a great start heading into next year. If these moves all bust, at the very least they have a roster full of low cost players who can be affordably discarded if they don’t pan out, rather than overpriced veterans who will win a team 75 game max a year.
by Bradsbeard on Jul 31, 2009 2:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
17 plus seasons.....
Must I say more we are the laughing stock for now, in a couple years we may or may not be but right now we are.
by baseballssp3 on Jul 31, 2009 2:44 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think anyone’s arguing that right now they aren’t a laughingstock. Although for total futility I’d say the Royals may actually be worse in the same time period, one lucky 83 win season not withstanding.
I think people just have a problem with Burnett saying it because it’s pretty uncouth and stupid to say since he was part of the problem.
by TravisDW on Jul 31, 2009 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Understandable
I understand that but did we have to lose all the players we did for what we got. I want to know who NH wants to build a team around.
by baseballssp3 on Jul 31, 2009 2:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Players:
Morton, Alderson, Lincoln, Alvarez, Tabata, Cutch, Milledge, Doumit and any of the 20 or so other guys in the system—for starters.
by dtoddwin on Jul 31, 2009 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Doumit's gone after 2011
Assuming he lives to play that long. Makes Bay look like Cal fucking Ripken. Silly to include him in any future “core.”
by JRoth95 on Jul 31, 2009 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here's the Lineup for tonight from the PBC Blog
McCutchen, CF
Milledge, LF
Jones, RF
Doumit, C
Young, 2B
Pearce, 1B
LaRoche, 3B
Cedeno, SS
Ohlendorf, P
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
by Green_Wave on Jul 31, 2009 2:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That's pretty much what I expected.
by Slizeezyc on Jul 31, 2009 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Where is Clement with service time for arb and options?
Would it make sense to keep him away from Pittsburgh this season?
by RDV across the sea on Jul 31, 2009 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Either late this year or next year
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
by Green_Wave on Jul 31, 2009 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Done with Pearce?
I think I saw that Dejan said Clement would be working on his defense at first for rest of the year. I would agree it’s time to get him up to play soon, but then someone is odd man out, unless they move Pearce back to the OF and take GJones out.
by Slizeezyc on Jul 31, 2009 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dejan said
in the chat transcript yesterday when asked when to expect to see Clement – “No way he could be up this year. Maybe not next, either…” Thought it was a statement that called for a follow up question but, of course, the conversation moved to some irrelevant banter about whether Jack and Freddy had set the record for length of time BFFs played for a losing tearm or something.
by reverse apache master on Jul 31, 2009 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pearce
I think we can see clement if pearce keeps not producing given his opportunity
by baseballssp3 on Jul 31, 2009 3:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Now
The Dodgers could be getting both Adrian Gonzalez and Heath Bell. An in division trade for the Padres with, arguably, their two biggest trade pieces? They better be getting something good.
Link
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
by Green_Wave on Jul 31, 2009 3:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
have I mentioned I love MLB network? They actually provide good analysis and say what is actually going on. Maybe it’s because they actually have people that know baseball on there
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
by Green_Wave on Jul 31, 2009 3:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
minor move
via dejan:
# Pirates trade Class AA pitcher Sean Smith to #Blue Jays for future considerations.
by johnnycuff on Jul 31, 2009 3:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i mean
sean smith!! i’m done with this team!!
(hits dead horse with bat again)
by johnnycuff on Jul 31, 2009 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Maybe NH read the PP-G editorial.
Then offered Sean Smith for Roy Halliday and Riccardi told him he was mad and needed to consider his future in baseball.
by RDV across the sea on Jul 31, 2009 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Future considerations…so cash?
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
by Green_Wave on Jul 31, 2009 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
SEE
I told you guys. We get all these damn prospects and now we have to make room for them! Might as well add Sean “Sooowee” Smith as a part of the cost to get Alderson. How’s that deal looking now? What was Smith’s prospect ranking again?
On a serious note, Wilbur can you start the list of the culled guys from the org.?
by GeneClines on Jul 31, 2009 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sean Smith
What’s his numbers like?
by baseballssp3 on Jul 31, 2009 3:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Decent numbers in AA this year as a 25-year old reliever. Not much to get excited about.
by maguro on Jul 31, 2009 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?pos=P&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=458001
according to wilbur
Smith has been a solid minor league starter for some time, without ever getting onto the prospect map. He’s had trouble with gopher balls. He should serve as AAA depth in 2009, although he was not on any roster to start the season. He may have been released, as MiLB.com listed him as a free agent at the start of the season, but that turned out to be incorrect and he appeared with Altoona about a week into the season.
having a decent season at AA. probably just organizational filler eventually traded for organizational filler.
by johnnycuff on Jul 31, 2009 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So, in his short stay in Boston
has Mario’s trade value shot up? Or decreased? Or stayed the same?
True Blue Jazz
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RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
by UtesFan89 on Jul 31, 2009 3:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
he did hit a homerun. but his OPS+ was only 95.
i bet he gets traded back to the bucs for a case of dollar dogs.
by johnnycuff on Jul 31, 2009 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Same
I’m a red sox fan I follow them I’m going to baltimore this weekend to see them, he’s been about the same not a huge difference maker….
by baseballssp3 on Jul 31, 2009 3:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
by Green_Wave on Jul 31, 2009 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If he's in Atlanta
they don’t need Kotchman.
Could we maybe go after him?
True Blue Jazz
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RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
by UtesFan89 on Jul 31, 2009 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you kidding?
Kotchman’s even worse than Adam LaRoche.
by maguro on Jul 31, 2009 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
if the braves get him for nothing (which i bet is the case since boston is essentially dumping salary) this could be a pretty smart deal for them.
by johnnycuff on Jul 31, 2009 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Was Hairston starting for them?
Either way, is this maybe a precursor to a Rolen deal? Or are they officially selling?
True Blue Jazz
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RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
by UtesFan89 on Jul 31, 2009 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rockies get Joe Beimel
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
by Green_Wave on Jul 31, 2009 3:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Is anyone watching MLB Network right now?
I don’t watch a bunch; who is this analyst who is speaking TRUTH right now?
by biggyv on Jul 31, 2009 3:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
yeah was watching
i guess u mean the guy on the right of the screen… i donno his name either… the 2 in the middle are awwwful!
by BurgherKing on Jul 31, 2009 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They all have said right things at some point. they’ve had John hart (former GM) on there and Harold Reynolds even said some smart things.
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
by Green_Wave on Jul 31, 2009 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
harold reynolds has been off-on
he said some smart things in between… mostly he’s been like a yinzer, and sounded dumb as hell… almost makes it sound like the major leagues is all there is!
said something like, “how can u trade a cy young winner and ML guy for minor leaguers?” wrt the cliff lee trade. someone has to teach him what prospects are worth
by BurgherKing on Jul 31, 2009 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You have to remember, he’s a former ESPN analyst. it takes a while to get that stuff out of the brain and actually think in baseball terms
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
by Green_Wave on Jul 31, 2009 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reynolds
Yeah, but at least he played. Between Olney, Kurkjian, and Gammons there’s way too much writer perspective. And I don’t even count Orestes Destrada. Where did he play, Durham?
And I agree, his perspective has changed somewhat since he left BBTN, but he has his relapses. I saw that Cliff Lee quote, too. Doesn’t he realize that’s what losing teams do when they’re trying to rebuild????
"Straight ball I hit very much, but curveball, bats are afraid." - Pedro Cerrano
by silencerdu on Jul 31, 2009 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I really wish
what was said on MLB network today was played on a loop for all the yinzers at PBC blog. Maybe they would stop using Mike Wilbon and Tony Kornheiser as their sources that they are right.
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
by Green_Wave on Jul 31, 2009 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They made me want to vomit
Can we kidnap Kornheiser and put him on the Nuttings plane to torture him since he’s scared of flying?
"Straight ball I hit very much, but curveball, bats are afraid." - Pedro Cerrano
by silencerdu on Jul 31, 2009 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
MLB network just said
PIRATES and YANKEES make a trade!
by BurgherKing on Jul 31, 2009 3:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Seriously?
True Blue Jazz
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RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
by UtesFan89 on Jul 31, 2009 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think so!
unless i heard wrong… i just checked MLBTR which says yanks got jerry hairston jr…
maybe they mis-said it, maybe i mis-heard it…
lets wait for it to come back from the break
by BurgherKing on Jul 31, 2009 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They said they made separate trades
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
by Green_Wave on Jul 31, 2009 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ahhhh
they meant pirates made a trade and yanks made a trade!
by BurgherKing on Jul 31, 2009 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or Capps?
True Blue Jazz
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RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
by UtesFan89 on Jul 31, 2009 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
probably mixed up with the hairston, jr. thing. what, mlb analysts now break stories about the bucs, let alone know anything about them?
by johnnycuff on Jul 31, 2009 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
just the jays trade for sean smith
not the yanks
by biggyv on Jul 31, 2009 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
crap!
why cant they get it right!
by BurgherKing on Jul 31, 2009 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love it that Adam somehow made his way back to Atlanta, I think that’s hilarious
by Jett on Jul 31, 2009 3:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That doesn't make any sense
trading Mario for Kotchman does nothing. Still a glut of 1st basemen.
Another trade in the works?
True Blue Jazz
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RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
by UtesFan89 on Jul 31, 2009 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't get it
What does Kotchman do that LaRoche doesn’t?
by maguro on Jul 31, 2009 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
so what do they do with Kotchman?
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
by Green_Wave on Jul 31, 2009 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i suppose they could always cut him and eat his salary instead of laroche’s.
by johnnycuff on Jul 31, 2009 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
heyman confirms kotchman for laroche
by johnnycuff on Jul 31, 2009 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dodgers seem most likely to land Heath Bell
can we cut in with Capps and say he’s a bit cheaper?
Will that work?
True Blue Jazz
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RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
by UtesFan89 on Jul 31, 2009 3:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Jonathan Mayo
Bad-mouthing the Yinzers on MLB Network. “Who did they really have to give up outside of Bay? In Pittsburgh fans sometimes tend to have black and gold colored glasses…”
by Slizeezyc on Jul 31, 2009 3:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think I like him
a bit more than some of the other guys that have talked about the Pirates recently
True Blue Jazz
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RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
by UtesFan89 on Jul 31, 2009 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ditto
not sure i liked the rest on MLB too much, bar Hart and the other GM whose name I don’t know
by BurgherKing on Jul 31, 2009 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Too bad the yinzers watch ESPN
for their baseball news instead of a baseball network
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
by Green_Wave on Jul 31, 2009 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure they even go that far
I think the limit for them is Pompeani and Smizik.
by biggyv on Jul 31, 2009 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That was awesome
Finally, someone went on national media and said it!
"Straight ball I hit very much, but curveball, bats are afraid." - Pedro Cerrano
by silencerdu on Jul 31, 2009 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jonathan Mayo and Trenni?(treny,treni the chick from fsnp)
are actually talking PIRATES baseball on mlb network. mayo says Alderson was the top propect to be traded out of all the trades done. Nice job neal
by 1STstate bucco on Jul 31, 2009 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Looking at the numbers
Victor Martinez’s value takes a big hit with the Sox having to play him at 1st. Though i guess he still has the ability to play catcher, so not all is lost. But still, his numbers are average to slightly above average for a first baseman
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
by Green_Wave on Jul 31, 2009 3:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
And his numbers are not only getting progressively worse throughout this year but as well as his career. I like the trade for the Indians. Hagadone is going to be really good I think and now maybe the Indians great C prospect Carlos Santana can come up and get some at bats in Sept
by Jett on Jul 31, 2009 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So, I'm guessing
no trade of Capps or anything?
Oh well… the deadline week was fun while it lasted.
Now lets get back to losing.
True Blue Jazz
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RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
by UtesFan89 on Jul 31, 2009 3:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
You may have to wait fro the losing
with the Gnats in town
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
by Green_Wave on Jul 31, 2009 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
anyone else surprised abt the VMart trade?
by BurgherKing on Jul 31, 2009 3:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
as in, i m surprised they didnt make the redsox pay more…
admit i donno much abt the players except masterson
by BurgherKing on Jul 31, 2009 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hagadone is a really good LHP. He’s the key
by Jett on Jul 31, 2009 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nope
Once Lee was gone, it was only a matter of time.
by maguro on Jul 31, 2009 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
i meant not the trade, but the return
by BurgherKing on Jul 31, 2009 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
When
taking the fact that he is a 30 year old catcher who is likely on the decline and has a bat that profiles as average at first base…it was probably a really good return
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
by Green_Wave on Jul 31, 2009 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So
What does that say about potential return for Doumit next year? Or maybe clearing waivers this year and being delt?
by GeneClines on Jul 31, 2009 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
thats probably right, but there isn’t yet evidence of his decline, and the only reason we seem to be thinking of 1B is that the Sox have varitek at C, and he might well be moved out of there. Surely from Cleveland’s point of view, it doesnt matter what the Sox will use him as- they were selling him as a catcher!
by BurgherKing on Jul 31, 2009 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm surprised they bit
without getting Bard (though they supposedly didn’t want any relievers) or Buccholz…
True Blue Jazz
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RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
by UtesFan89 on Jul 31, 2009 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
rolen going to cincy if he declines his no trade clause
via mlbtr
by johnnycuff on Jul 31, 2009 3:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Wow
why would Cincy do that. MLB network has it too
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
by Green_Wave on Jul 31, 2009 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They feel
they are still in contention, and they need a 3rd baseman.
We’ll see how it works out for them.
True Blue Jazz
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RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
by UtesFan89 on Jul 31, 2009 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess
the Reds are in it for the WC run.
I think word (before) was Encarnacion + more to the Blue Jays
True Blue Jazz
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RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
by UtesFan89 on Jul 31, 2009 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just . . . wow.
Does this make any kind of sense to anyone?
by biggyv on Jul 31, 2009 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
From Rob Neyer's Trade Deadline Chat
Paul (New York)
Question: Should there be a trading limit per team to prevent wholesale selloffs like Pittsburgh or Cleveland? Those poor fans…
Rob Neyer
(3:15 PM):
Really? Were I a fan of either team, I’d be pretty optimistic about the direction of the franchise. Granted, I can be too enthusiastic about young players. Still, neither club is run by idiots.
That’s nice to see, especially after that PG editorial.
by theDingus on Jul 31, 2009 3:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Another guy to like!
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by UtesFan89 on Jul 31, 2009 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's a guy that actually knows baseball
unlike the guys the yinzers like to quote
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
by Green_Wave on Jul 31, 2009 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Someone please post that on the PBC Blog…
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
by Green_Wave on Jul 31, 2009 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Biemel trade
previously, the Nats were asking for EYJ.
I’m assuming they got less, but yeah…
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by UtesFan89 on Jul 31, 2009 3:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
heyman says for 2 minor leaguers. no names, though i would imagine that rules out EYJ.
by johnnycuff on Jul 31, 2009 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
I’d assume as much.
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by UtesFan89 on Jul 31, 2009 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like MLB Network's coverage . . .
but having Jim Duquette as an analyst? Yikes.
He’ll always be the guy who traded “Kazmir for Zambrano” to me.
Like Matt Millen doing NFL broadcasts.
by biggyv on Jul 31, 2009 3:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Matt Millen
did do pre game shows for a network last year
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
by Green_Wave on Jul 31, 2009 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think he's getting a bigger role this year
at least that seemed to be their plan.
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by UtesFan89 on Jul 31, 2009 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Once upon a time
Matt Millen was a really good television guy. His GM tenure kind of blew up that reputation, but he was/is pretty well respected as a football analyst.
"I honestly think the "Spread HD" is going to work pretty well, and we’ll be just fine this year". - 8-27-2008
by jesse. on Jul 31, 2009 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Probably
I just don’t want him on TV telling me which guys will do well and which won’t. Or anything about rookies.
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by UtesFan89 on Jul 31, 2009 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know I felt better about the Steelers’ chances after he picked the Cardinals to win the Super Bowl.
charity standing orders
by BadMaafala on Jul 31, 2009 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And this year.....
and is really good at it.
by dtoddwin on Jul 31, 2009 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can't be any worse than Steve Phillips!
"Straight ball I hit very much, but curveball, bats are afraid." - Pedro Cerrano
by silencerdu on Jul 31, 2009 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
via Twitter
Mayo says Austin Jackson to Cincy for Hairston, trying to confirm
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by UtesFan89 on Jul 31, 2009 3:48 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
What?
I thought the Yanks said Jackson was untouchable?
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
by Green_Wave on Jul 31, 2009 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
u r kidding me
austin jackson! :-o
by BurgherKing on Jul 31, 2009 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
if it's true
It’s too bad the Bucs couldn’t trade someone like Hairston for Jackson. That would have been a steal.
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
by Green_Wave on Jul 31, 2009 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
more than that
i donno why yanks would be doing that!
they are pretty good in general, and no reason to give up a top prospect!
by BurgherKing on Jul 31, 2009 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
fanhouse chat
Pat Lackey:
“Hah, he says the Austin Jackson info is ‘not accurate.’
Aaaand the world makes a little more sense once again."
by dirtyfrank on Jul 31, 2009 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
if it s true
walt jocketty pulled one out of the hat!
i would be shocked!
by BurgherKing on Jul 31, 2009 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trying to find someone that confirms that...
still looking though
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by UtesFan89 on Jul 31, 2009 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There is absolutely no way that Jackson was traded for Hairston.
by thegreatchris on Jul 31, 2009 3:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
I don’t know what Mayo was reporting from…
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by UtesFan89 on Jul 31, 2009 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Twitter again
MLB Network also reports Casey Kotchman to Boston for Adam LaRoche, speculation is that Casey might move elsewhere in a three-team deal.
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by UtesFan89 on Jul 31, 2009 3:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Fox Sports
says Rolen for Encarnacion + minor leaguer
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by UtesFan89 on Jul 31, 2009 3:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Unrelated
Rudy Owens is listed as a roster player on Lynchburg’s website:
http://indianapolis.indians.milb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?pos=P&sid=t481&t=p_pbp&pid=502168
He is not listed on WV’s roster.
by biggyv on Jul 31, 2009 3:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Hopefully he can get a few starts before we shut him down for the year.
by thegreatchris on Jul 31, 2009 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
hmmm
interesting
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
by Green_Wave on Jul 31, 2009 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
saw that
and Lorin is active for WV
by dirtyfrank on Jul 31, 2009 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Alderson
making debut tomorrow
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
by Green_Wave on Jul 31, 2009 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice
Would be a good few appearances for Owens if he can do well at Lynchburg. Wow… we have pitchers to move around. This is a little bit too much to comprehend.
"Straight ball I hit very much, but curveball, bats are afraid." - Pedro Cerrano
by silencerdu on Jul 31, 2009 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
From Fox Sports
The Marlins have acquired first baseman Nick Johnson for the Nationals for Class AA left-hander Aaron Thompson, according to a major-league source.
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/9875596/MLB-trade-deadline-buzz:-Friday%27s-edition
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by UtesFan89 on Jul 31, 2009 4:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Looking at Thompson's minor league lines
doesn’t look like much of a haul at all. Of course we saw how smart the nats GM was when traded for Morgan
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
by Green_Wave on Jul 31, 2009 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
meh
florida’s first rounder from last year. disappointing at 22 in AA after finishing last season there. striking out less that 6 per 9 both times.
by johnnycuff on Jul 31, 2009 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
BP has him as a solid but unspectacular LHP
by BurgherKing on Jul 31, 2009 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the Gnats
are paying the salary also. This looks like a very bad deal for them.
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
by Green_Wave on Jul 31, 2009 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
seriously
johnson is better than laroche and they got less for him.
by johnnycuff on Jul 31, 2009 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I personally think
it’s hilarious that tomorrow is Victor Martinez bobble-head night in Cleveland
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
by Green_Wave on Jul 31, 2009 4:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
kind of like how nate mclouth is on the september page of my pirates calendar i got at a game this year.
by johnnycuff on Jul 31, 2009 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep
except I think this may be even worse
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
by Green_Wave on Jul 31, 2009 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rumors
of Halladay to the Angels
No link though… sorry
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by UtesFan89 on Jul 31, 2009 4:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
where did you hear this? ESPN? Somewhere else?
by biggyv on Jul 31, 2009 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
via Twitter
An Angels fee
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by UtesFan89 on Jul 31, 2009 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that should read
feed.
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by UtesFan89 on Jul 31, 2009 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
by Green_Wave on Jul 31, 2009 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Another quote from the Neyer Chat
Paul (NC)
Question:
Did the Pirates receive enough value in their recent fire sales to finally be able to contend in a few years?
Rob Neyer
(3:55 PM)
I’m not convinced, but I don’t know nearly enough about their farm system to say with any confidence. I do get the feeling that they’re on the right track, but what they’re trying to do is exceptionally difficult.
by theDingus on Jul 31, 2009 4:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Twitter again
Halladay deal: Brandon Wood and Erik Aybar 2 TOR.
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by UtesFan89 on Jul 31, 2009 4:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Trying to find confirmation
that isn’t on twitter.
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by UtesFan89 on Jul 31, 2009 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
sort of
RT @nyp_joelsherman fact rolen got done when jays execs said no rolen trade unless doc is dealt, makes me wonder if doc actually got moved
by johnnycuff on Jul 31, 2009 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I imagine this changed when they were able to get Encarnacion and Yonder Alonso, which is way more than I would’ve expected.
by thegreatchris on Jul 31, 2009 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't count on Alonso
we’ll see
by dirtyfrank on Jul 31, 2009 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Alonso...
where have I heard that name before?
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by UtesFan89 on Jul 31, 2009 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s what’s being confirmed
Link
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
by Green_Wave on Jul 31, 2009 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
can't trade Alonso
until 8/15.
it’d have to be a PTBNL
by dirtyfrank on Jul 31, 2009 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Law says
not Alonso (via twitter)
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by UtesFan89 on Jul 31, 2009 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
alonso was drafted in the 1st round of 2008 so he’s eligible. why wouldn’t he be?
by johnnycuff on Jul 31, 2009 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't they have to wait 1 year
to trade him?
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by UtesFan89 on Jul 31, 2009 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh i was assuming it was 1 year from the draft, not from signing. my bad.
by johnnycuff on Jul 31, 2009 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's crazy
even without Alonso…I’m completely baffled by Cinci’s thinking here. This is Matt Morris-bad in my opinion.
by maguro on Jul 31, 2009 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Cincy
Twitter now saying C Chase Weems for Hairston, not Austin Jackson.
Mayo just got played. Bad.
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by UtesFan89 on Jul 31, 2009 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reds send
Josh Roenicke AAA RHP
and
Zach Stewart AAA RHP
to Toronto
by dirtyfrank on Jul 31, 2009 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I lied. Those are the #6 and #7 prospects for the Reds. Nearly as bad as Alonso.
by thegreatchris on Jul 31, 2009 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+ Encarnacion
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by UtesFan89 on Jul 31, 2009 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
also
there had better be more than those two in the deal considering what the jays asked from philly.
by johnnycuff on Jul 31, 2009 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Unless they got cold feet
and decided to just take the best offer now and run
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by UtesFan89 on Jul 31, 2009 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's it?
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
by Green_Wave on Jul 31, 2009 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not sure
I’d have assumed more, but we’ll see what ends up happening
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by UtesFan89 on Jul 31, 2009 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
wayyyy too cheap
they turned the phillies down for this??? noooo wayyyyy
by BurgherKing on Jul 31, 2009 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yea this is not true. No way they would not get a Pitcher or two. They need at least 4 players from LAA
by Jett on Jul 31, 2009 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not sure...
maybe Wood & Aybar are the ML’ers they get + other prospects?
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by UtesFan89 on Jul 31, 2009 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
reportedly
Stark said the talks centered around Saunders. according to the link I posted above
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
by Green_Wave on Jul 31, 2009 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's a steal
for Anaheim if that’s all they gave up.
"Straight ball I hit very much, but curveball, bats are afraid." - Pedro Cerrano
by silencerdu on Jul 31, 2009 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not happening. JP Riccardi has said Halladay is staying put
by Jett on Jul 31, 2009 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Any deadline deals by the buccos today? I haven’t heard anything yet, but last year they didn’t report the bay trade until 4:15 or 4:30, so i don’t know.
by Akshay R on Jul 31, 2009 4:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The Bay trade surfaced after the deadline last year.
Anything could happen in the next few hours.
by RDV across the sea on Jul 31, 2009 4:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
yeah but
we heard rumors all day about discussions, especially with the rays. no such thing this year.
by johnnycuff on Jul 31, 2009 4:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Surprised to see
the Reds actually follow through and get Scott Rolen. Jocketty must think they can contend next year…I don’t see the sense of it myself.
by maguro on Jul 31, 2009 4:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
They have a decently young team that could see some breakthroughs next year along with a little better luck with pitching.
charity standing orders
by BadMaafala on Jul 31, 2009 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK…but Scott Rolen? He’s 34 and his odds of staying healthy next year are not good. I hope they’re getting some cash as well…he’s got a big contract.
by maguro on Jul 31, 2009 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Something about
Encarnacion being horrible this year, and Rolen really helping their D at 3rd
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by UtesFan89 on Jul 31, 2009 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
via mlbtr
RT @matthewpouliot John Fay: The Reds are sending Edwin Encarnacion, Josh Roenicke and Zach Stewart to Toronto for Scott Rolen.
by johnnycuff on Jul 31, 2009 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Still 'rumours' out there.
According to MLB Network.
by RDV across the sea on Jul 31, 2009 4:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
lol wut
heyman tweets
peavy dealt again to #whitesox! again! not sure if he’s OK’ed it. #padres.
by johnnycuff on Jul 31, 2009 4:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Man
the ChiSox really want the guy. Even after being rejected once.
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by UtesFan89 on Jul 31, 2009 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
good time to buy low i guess. heyman repeats that he’s not joking.
by johnnycuff on Jul 31, 2009 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lol
his next tweet…
this is no joke. peavy goes to white sox again. #padres get minor leaguers.
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by UtesFan89 on Jul 31, 2009 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There are doubts
that Peavy will pitch again this year so I’m not sure what the point of this deal is
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
by Green_Wave on Jul 31, 2009 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
joel sherman from the new york post reports the same independently.
by johnnycuff on Jul 31, 2009 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Heyman (twitter)
says Peavy to ChiSox (again). If he accepts it.
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by UtesFan89 on Jul 31, 2009 4:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
MLB Trade Rumors
is reporting the twitter as well
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
by Green_Wave on Jul 31, 2009 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
haha
then tweets that he’s insane.
by johnnycuff on Jul 31, 2009 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ESPN saying
Halladay to Angels didn’t get done (via Twitter)
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by UtesFan89 on Jul 31, 2009 4:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
MLB trade rumors has it too
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
by Green_Wave on Jul 31, 2009 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fox Sports
confirms
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by UtesFan89 on Jul 31, 2009 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Two former Cy Young winners could be traded according to MLB Network.
Peavy and Halladay?
by RDV across the sea on Jul 31, 2009 4:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Peavy has to approve it, which he did not earlier this year
by Jett on Jul 31, 2009 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
MLBN
saying it was probably approved
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by UtesFan89 on Jul 31, 2009 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
via Twitter (@followthepadres)
It’s true. #Padres pitcher Jake Peavy to the White Sox for LHP Aaron Poreda. Not sure what else. More soon.
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by UtesFan89 on Jul 31, 2009 4:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
same twitter account
The #Padres haul for Peavy is Poreda, Richard, Russell and Carter. #mlbtrades
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by UtesFan89 on Jul 31, 2009 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
what was the earlier offer? the same?
by johnnycuff on Jul 31, 2009 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think so.
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by UtesFan89 on Jul 31, 2009 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Poreda is good
and they add three more guys. Padres got a pretty good haul from what I see
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
by Green_Wave on Jul 31, 2009 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Poor Twins (even though I can't stand the Twins)
Detroit gets Washburn, White Sox get Peavy, and they only get Orlando Cabrera
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
by Green_Wave on Jul 31, 2009 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So weird. Rejects it in the offseason, then accepts at midseason while out for the year.
by thegreatchris on Jul 31, 2009 4:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Apparently so.
Jett – You’re taking some convincing.
Vested interest?
by RDV across the sea on Jul 31, 2009 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Naw, just like thegreatchris said earlier, he rejected to go there earlier this year then approves the deal now. Its just odd
by Jett on Jul 31, 2009 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of the guys
Dexter Carter is in single-A, and averaging almost 8 Ks/game there.
Richard has 1 start against the Pirates this year, if I remember correctly…
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by UtesFan89 on Jul 31, 2009 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Richard and Poreda
were their top two prospects this year I think.
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
by Green_Wave on Jul 31, 2009 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Plus
trading Brian Anderson & pissing of Josh Fields… they’re losing their farm really quickly right now…
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by UtesFan89 on Jul 31, 2009 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and Russell
was number 9 last year and has pitched well at AAA this year. Carter is pitching well at A ball. All four seem to be good prospects, especially Poreda and Richard
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
by Green_Wave on Jul 31, 2009 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ChiSox fans
seem to think they gave up too much.
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by UtesFan89 on Jul 31, 2009 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think so
it looks like the Padres made bank
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
by Green_Wave on Jul 31, 2009 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What I don't get
I how they could offer the same package they were offering before the season when he wasn’t injured and they would have had him (potentially) for this whole season, instead of now when he might not even play for them at all this year.
by Schide on Jul 31, 2009 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Peavy is signed
thorugh 2012 with a 2013 option. So that half year doesn’t make much of a difference. And he has an ankle injury which is still an injury but the Padres FO probably spun it as it not being an arm injury.
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
by Green_Wave on Jul 31, 2009 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Looking to the future?
He’s under contract till 2012, with a team option for 2013.
That said, yeah… it’s too much.
No idea on how he’ll come back from the injury… how can you offer the same package?
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by UtesFan89 on Jul 31, 2009 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe reacting to the Tigers getting Washburn
by Jett on Jul 31, 2009 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe
but then getting Halladay (or anyone that’ll pitch this season) seems like a better idea. B/c Washburn will be gone after the season… it’s a “win now” move. for the Tigers
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by UtesFan89 on Jul 31, 2009 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yea it is
Tigers didn’t give up that much at all though compared to Peavy. I know he’s under control for 2-3 more years, so its understandable. But to get Halladay a team would have had to give up top prospects, probably 2-3 top prospects and another body
by Jett on Jul 31, 2009 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
the ChiSox gave up their top 2 pitchers as is. And a couple of other good pitchers. Don’t think it would’ve cost too much more for Halladay.
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by UtesFan89 on Jul 31, 2009 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think the White Sox had a chance at Halladay. No way Riccardi accepts this same group for Halladay, or a slightly improved group. If he’s asking for guys like Drabek and 3 others from Philly and some sort of Joba/Hughes with others from the Yanks, I don’t think the White Sox had any chance at him
by Jett on Jul 31, 2009 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This sounds right to me.
"Never mistake motion for action." - Ernest Hemingway
by SubLime on Jul 31, 2009 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he is signed through 2013. but yeah, you would think they’d get him at a discount with a year less.
by johnnycuff on Jul 31, 2009 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Plus
now they’re a pitcher down in the AL Central race (only 2.5 games out)
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by UtesFan89 on Jul 31, 2009 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Probably became obvious to him
the ChiSox like him. The Padres are “eh”… and they’re not very good either.
True Blue Jazz
I'm on Twitter
RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
by UtesFan89 on Jul 31, 2009 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mayo on twitter
Rockies minor leaguers to Nats for Beimel are RHP Ryan Mattheus and Robinson Fabian according to release
True Blue Jazz
I'm on Twitter
RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
by UtesFan89 on Jul 31, 2009 5:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
PG staff from another planet
I think it’s hilarious how the PG staff rips the Pirates as being bad, but when management trades those “bad” players away, the PG staff questions the motives of those trades. The bottom line is that the Pirates had a lot of mediocre MLB level players; granted a lot of those guys were quality people, but change needed to be made. Also note that every piece I read from PG basically giggled at JR for stating he thought Garrett Jones could be the real deal; now they’re all backtracking.
by michaelbro8 on Jul 31, 2009 6:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Hooray For Sean Burnett!
Kudos to Sean Burnett for speaking the truth about the thieves that currently run the Pittsburgh Pirates.
Anything to get rid of Bob Nutting and his “workmen” ASAP.
They are indeed the most stinking, pitiful bunch of losers to ever run a team….into the ground.
by Amos_P_Swanson on Jul 31, 2009 6:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I love posting this picture, but wish i didn't have to
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock
by Green_Wave on Jul 31, 2009 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Stop posting this picture
It’s really eye catching. Something we don’t need in this situation.
by ryebr3ad on Aug 1, 2009 1:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dont let the PG go unanswered
Put me down as agreeing that the folks on BD should refute things like the PG’s editorial and other comments. I am new to BD, am moving back to the Burgh from DC, and I am the type of person mentioned in an earlier post who came across this site and found it much more intelligent than what I’ve found elsewhere.
I think the overall direction of the Bucs is finally a good one, and I have been very pleased with the approach they’re taking. There are a lot of people on here who know much more about baseball than I do, and I find the analysis of the trades much better here than elsewhere. And I agree the PG commentary from the columnists is very weak.they are like politicians feeding into the worst instincts of the ignorant masses.
On the trades, our team seems to have taken a weak team, traded it, and ended up with definite quantity and some seemly definite quality. People can dream that we’d have been able to keep Bay but that is insane. And the others, big deal. The Bucs were at best a mediocre team, and had very little upside.
Also, I laughed out loud at the Washington Post piece saying that enough time had gone by to judge the Morgan trade and that it was a success for the Nats. So the PG isn’t the only absurd paper…
by AJF67 on Jul 31, 2009 10:14 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs
can anyone believe the burnett quotes?
calling the pirates the laughingstocks of baseball???
anyone find this ironic? i mean who does burnett now play for? the Washington Nationals!!!!! the worst team in baseball!!! they are more than 10 wins behind the pirates which means that they are last the entire league! the team that lost tonite to the laughingstock pirates!!!! i mean seriously, they are truly the worst in the league and possibly worst in the past few years. they are terrible. and we traded away almost the whole team and still beat them.
does anyone find this funny????
by buccosfan on Aug 1, 2009 4:59 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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