Adam LaRoche Traded Again

by Charlie Wilmoth on Jul 31, 2009 5:00 PM EDT

...Back to the Braves, for first baseman Casey Kotchman. I would have rather the Pirates got Kotchman for LaRoche than what they actually did get, but I'm also not sure I'm overly concerned about it. Kotchman was a top prospect with the Angels, but he has failed to improve and is now a young veteran, and probably only a marginal starter, at age 26. He's also about to enter his third year of arbitration, and he hasn't really been the same since leaving the Angels, where his dad was a coach. If he's lucky he becomes the next Wally Joyner, but I'd bet against that happening.

UPDATE from a comment I posted below: The players the Bucs got back for LaRoche are marginal prospects, at best. PECOTA sees some hope for Kotchman, comparing him to Todd Helton and a couple other good players. I don’t think Kotchman is eligible for free agency for two years after this one. So there’s some non-zero chance he finally breaks out in his age-27 season and then the Pirates can get something really good for him, as opposed to what they’re likely to get for LaRoche, which is almost nothing. I'd rather play Jeff Clement than Kotchman, but then the Pirates didn't have Clement when they made the LaRoche trade. It's probably not a big deal, but if I were the Pirates I might have considered taking a chance on Kotchman.

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reunited with nate.

Pow Right In The Kisser!

by Cutch is the chosen one! on Jul 31, 2009 5:25 PM EDT reply actions

Oh Adam, how many runners left on base have I suffered through because of your slumps and lack of plate discipline

by piratesthisyear on Jul 31, 2009 5:27 PM EDT reply actions

According to DK, Andy is happy about Adam going to ATL

Andy LaRoche found out about Adam LaRoche’s trade back to Atlanta through a text and was jubilantly sharing that information with the rest of the clubhouse.

Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock

by Green_Wave on Jul 31, 2009 5:29 PM EDT reply actions

I wonder how happy Bobby Cox is

Remember he was the first person who was offended by his lackadaisical play, much sooner than PIrate fans were.

"Straight ball I hit very much, but curveball, bats are afraid." - Pedro Cerrano

by silencerdu on Jul 31, 2009 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions

Is Kotchman appreciably better than Pearce/Jones/Clement? I mean, he’s really exactly Adam LaRoche isn’t he (except still arbitration eligible)?

by mak_DC on Jul 31, 2009 5:38 PM EDT reply actions

Jonathan Mayo and Trenni?(treny,treni the chick from fsnp)

are actually talking pirates baseball on mlb network.Mayo said Alderson was the best PROSPECT traded away in all of the deals. NICE JOB NEAL

by 1STstate bucco on Jul 31, 2009 5:52 PM EDT reply actions

What?

‘I would have rather the Pirates got Kotchman for LaRoche than what they actually did get’

Charlie, that’s the poorest comment I have seen you make on Bucs Dugout.

The Pirates would have had absolutely no business pursuing Kotchman. What use would he have been in his third arbitration year next season, when they are trying to look at Pearce, Jones, Clement and possibly Doumit (if he suffers another catching injury) with Alvarez pushing for a late season call-up at a corner position?

Boston traded LaRoche’s salary because they didn’t want a $7m bench player.

by RDV across the sea on Jul 31, 2009 6:04 PM EDT reply actions

+1

I clearly prefer the no hit SS and A pitcher to Kotchman at this point. Which is meant as an indictment of Kotchman.

by haven on Jul 31, 2009 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions

Well, they didn’t have Clement when they made the LaRoche deal. Jones I really don’t care about and Pearce I care about only a little. And the players the Bucs got back for LaRoche are marginal prospects, at best. PECOTA sees some hope for Kotchman, comparing him to Todd Helton and a couple other good players. I don’ think he’s eligible for free agency for two years after this one. So there’s some non-zero chance he finally breaks out in his age-27 season and then the Pirates can get something really good for him, as opposed to what they’re likely to get for LaRoche, which is almost nothing.

by Charlie Wilmoth on Jul 31, 2009 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions

They didn't have Clement...

but DK reported that he had been working with Seatle for over a month setting up a framework for the deal. My guess is NH knew he was going to get Clement when he made the Laroche trade.

by Slick1 on Jul 31, 2009 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions

So Jones breaks out at 28 after being blocked through out his career and you tell us to enjoy it while it lasts.

You care only a little about Pearce this season, after ridiculing the fact that last year, a twenty seven year old Morgan was taking playing time away from him.

I have the utmost respect for your opinions but it seems sometimes you have double standards regarding age and potential.

Morgan continues to perform and Kotchman is awful. I don’t know much about Pecota, Zips and projective stats in general but I think there’s a chance we can all be sidetracked a little by what should be and forget what is happening in real life from year to year.

by RDV across the sea on Jul 31, 2009 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions

I’m not sure what sort of double standard you think I have, but if you sense some ambiguity about my opinions regarding Pearce, Morgan, Jones and Kotchman, that’s because there is some. Morgan, apparently, learned how to play defense this offseason. He never played it particularly well before, and if you saw him last year you know he looked like a guy who had never received a day of coaching in his life. I mostly endorsed Pearce to play in front of him because I thought Morgan had no upside whatsoever, and Pearce had at least a shred of it. Even now, Morgan is basically playing at the absolute peak of his upside, although he’s obviously having a way better year than I expected.

Jones wasn’t blocked in Minnesota. He stunk in Minnesota and never earned playing time. There’s a big difference. He stunk for years. And now we’re supposed to believe in him because of his last 100 at bats? There’s no contradiction there. I hope I’m wrong about him, and maybe some of the apparent improvement this year is real, but when you have to compare a 1500 at bat sample that says one thing and a 100 at bat sample that says another, you take the 1500 at bat sample every time.

But I can agree to disagree with you on this. All four of these guys are marginal starters at best, and if you’d rather have Jones than Kotchman at this point, that’s fine with me. I prefer Kotchman because of his much, much, much better track record prior to July 2009, but I agree that even he is little more than a flier at this point.

by Charlie Wilmoth on Jul 31, 2009 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions

and I grew up liking Wally Joyner, so take offense to him and both those other guys in the same article

The ball just got bigger and bigger and then BAM it hit me.

by .500 Please on Jul 31, 2009 6:15 PM EDT reply actions

I’m not a fan of Kotchman and am fine with the return on LaRoche. We got more for him than the Nats did for Nick Johnson, who’s a considerably better player. Good work by Neal.

by maguro on Jul 31, 2009 6:44 PM EDT reply actions

Kotchman

I’m sure the Pirates could have had Kotchman if they wanted him. Deals tell me that Huntington doesn’t like him. I loved Kotchman in the PCL, but I incorrectly thought he was going to develop 18-to-25 HR power. I guess there’s still time, but it’s running out.

by bolton on Jul 31, 2009 7:00 PM EDT reply actions

kotchman is entirely uninteresting… .412 career slugging percentage? from a first baseman? no way he contributes anything meaningful to a future pirates team… the prospects they got instead might… that’s the point of rebuilding, not just cycling through the same pile of mediocrity…

by Captain Easychord on Jul 31, 2009 8:14 PM EDT reply actions