Leave Brandon Moss Alone!!!
by vanslyke on Jul 6, 2009 10:06 AM EDT
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Give me one good reason why Brandon Moss should not be out there everyday in the OF. DY is going to be a career pinch hitter. Jones is a career minor leaguer who is a younger version of Eric Hinske. Sidebar - remember how Cutch tore it up when he came up and then fell back to earth? Jones will be the same way. Once some advance scouting takes place on this guy he wont look as good at the plate. Pearce is all but forgotten every time he has been called up. I think it looks rather obvious that barring trade, he is really not part of the plan.
Which all brings me back to Moss. We are on course to win 75/76 games. Why do we care where the power will come from? Why exactly do we need power anyway? To win games? Last time I checked we were in last place in our division and only have to jump 10 teams or so for the wild card. So who cares if Moss hits 4 home runs this year. Let him play and prove what he is worth.
Moss has the most upside of the OF platoon we have in place now. Our outfield should look like Milledge/Cutch/Moss for the rest of the year. I dont care if Milledge or Moss OPS hovers at .500 - they should freaking play everyday. We have to see what we have in these guys.
Jones = Hinske
DY = reincarnation of Lee Mazzilli
Pearce = no future in Pittsburgh barring trade.
As far as everyone wanting to get rid of Adam LaRoche......the guy is a solid MLB player. While we may all get maddened by his propensity to hit into double plays at the wrong times, he has an above average glove and 4 spot bat. We will miss him and miss his production at 1B. It is a shame we cant lock him in further because he really plays a solid 1B.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of the managing editor (Charlie) or SB Nation. FanPosts are written by Bucs Dugout readers.
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Jones isn't a younger version of Hinske.
Hinske is a better hitter, a more versatile bench player, and a hugely better defender at the positions that both can play.
But yes, the Moss/LaRoche hate is stupid and counterproductive.
Just for the record
I posted that Monroe should play over Moss. That was stupid logic qualified by the front office upon Monroe’s release.
On the topic of being wrong, I had thought Hinske should have gotten more playing time over both Moss and Morgan! Too bad he reeked and left all his talent in Tampa…
by Gorkys n' Beans on Jul 6, 2009 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
For F@# sake..........
Brandon Moss sucks every bit as much as Nyjer Morgan ever did. Yinzers are racist.
Nyjer Morgan didnt suck
Nyjer Morgan was 29. When we are projected to contend in 2-3 years, he will be in his early 30’s. In addition, we are stacked in the OF in the minors with players with as much if not more speed, as good if not better defense and projected to hit for average and potentially power.
I liked Nyjer and was sad to see him go, but I loved the return of Milledge. Most front office types believed we stole Milledge for an overproducing, suspect base running, older MLB player. FWIW, you gamers out there can’t even make the trade in MLB ’09 straight up. It will tell you that you are not giving up enough for Milledge.
I can’t argue with Moss sucking, but it isnt like we are going to contend anyway. Why not let Moss continue to suck to see if he can break out? He is only 25. I would much rather watch a 25 year old with upside suck than a 29 year old overproducer who will be relegated to role player if/when we contend in 2-3 years. Nyjer was a known commodity. The jury is still out on Moss.
Though I agree with the gist of your post
I am not altogether certain that being unable to do a Morgan/Milledge trade in a computer game is a good argument that we won that trade.
by WestCoastBuc on Jul 6, 2009 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Hence the FWIW.....
I am not a gamer, but found it interesting when a buddy of mine ran the scenario.
Haha…true. But about the Morgan trade, people can say what they want, but it was a great trade by NH. He had to make that trade. Nyjer Morgan had hit his ceiling as far as potential goes, and this was the only time he was going to have trade value. Think about it: If I had told you before the season started that we would trade Nyjer Morgan for Lastings Milledge in June, what would you have said? Exactly. I loved Nyjer. He had a great personality and just loved the game, but this trade was an absolute steal. Remember, even though he’s a had a good season so far and exceeded everybody’s expectations, Nyjer was a guy that almost didn’t make the team out of spring training.
Positive reinforcement
On this point, you are absolutely right.
That's Interesting
It supports the idea that the Nationals would have never made that trade four months ago, and we really struck while the iron was hot. Nyjer Morgan will probably never be more valuable than he was last month. And if we’re lucky, Milledges value was never lower while he was in the midst of an injury, and possibly the victim of unrealistic expectations.
by Androgen Jar Jimmy on Jul 6, 2009 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Hitman Easler = John Murtha
"So you think 25 percent of the country is retarded?! Yea. Atleast 25 percent. Well lets so a sample. There are 4 of us an you're retarded. Thats 25 percent." Southpark; Mystery of the Urinal Deuce
by gorillakilla34 on Jul 6, 2009 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions
stay positive
Positive energy people. It’s baseball the greatest game on earth and It’s the Pirates my favorite team.
by changepirateskarma on Jul 6, 2009 11:26 AM EDT reply actions
Agree/Disagree
Yes, Brandon Moss should be getting the majority of the plate appearances for the buccos alongside Milledge (hopefully) and Cutch the rest of the way out. Moss is 25, has shown power, and is really the only viable option we can hope turns it around.
Also, his age has to be noted. Although not an extremely young guy by any means, Moss has under 500 major league at bats in his career. Some players are late bloomers like Nate McLouth, or to a crazier extent Joe Mauer (With regards to power numbers). Not that Moss will be either of them, but the organization has to find out what Moss is capable of, much more than Pearce, DY, or Jones, especially given the way he became a Pittsburgh Pirate. Besides, we have nothing to lose.
In regards to LaRoche, I gotta disagree. He is a useful player, just not what this team needs. He can be a serviceable bat and glove to a contender looking for that extra boost into the playoffs, but that’s not us. Our time is 2-3 years + down the road. It’s Neal’s job to pimp out guys like LaRoche to contenders, because he would mean so much more to them than he does to us. That, in turn, can save us dough and net younger players. We’ll definitely drop in production if Adam is dealt, but it means far, far, far less than suffering WITH his production in two years when he’s declining and the team is on the rise.
“…he has an above average glove and 4 spot bat”
Above average glove? Yes.
4-spot bat? NO! What have you been smoking? Adam LaRoche isn’t a cleanup hitter in anybody’s lineup, nor should he be.
Adam LaRoche, career:
211 games started at the #4 spot, more than any other lineup position. Link.
Second-most-popular choice for him is #5.
I bet
that LaRoche is #4/#5 with the team he ends up with.
I am sure those of you counting down the minutes until LaRoche is gone will be the same ones bitching when Pearce/Jones cant pick a ball or slump worse than LaRoche.
We complain about lack of middle IF, but we have no 1B candidates either. Last time I checked, Alvarez plays 3B and has a 30% strikeout rate. We do have Calvin Anderson, but he all the way down at WV and he is fringe at best. We are actually in better shape in the middle IF with D’Arnaud producing at high A than we are at 1B!
We can talk about mismatched parts, but LaRoche can hold the spot down for 2-3 years until we can home grow or get someone in a trade. We are in a bad negotiating position with LaRoche since he could be viewed as a rental depending on what he may demand on the FA market.
We are in a better negotiating position with Maholm and Duke. They are young guys who a team could control and in Maholm’s case, the contract is manageable. I just don’t see us benefiting a ton from the return from LaRoche and IMHO he gives us the best chance to compete at the MLB level until we identify our future 1B.
You are right about lack of depth at 1B. I’ll give you that, but in the end, I think Pedro will be moved to 1B. I’ve believed that ever since he was drafted. The Pirates will give him every chance to prove he can play 3B at the big league level, but he will end up as our 1B of the future, IMO. As far Maholm/Duke go, I completely agree. We have Brad Lincoln waiting in the wings. We can trade Maholm or Duke, get some good prospects in return and then Lincoln can take that spot in the rotation.
“We are in a bad negotiating position with LaRoche since he could be viewed as a rental depending on what he may demand on the FA market.”
Evidenced by the fact that not even Brian Sabean will trade for a FA-to-be such as LaRoche. People just aren’t going to pay useful prospects for a second-tier 1B who will be a FA at the end of the year (link here). If we can’t trade LaRoche for a decent return, and we have no true ML-ready replacement, then I wouldn’t mind taking a supplemental pick for him (assuming he can reach Type-B FA status), nor would I terribly mind signing him to an arb deal for next year.
Hey, an out is an out - unless you're Mario, in which case it's probably two outs. -UtesFan89
"stay positive"
I just don’t see how letting Brandon Moss play everyday is productive. I could see if he picked up the average and was maybe a .285 hitter with two homeruns… I say give him 3-4 starts a week, which has been the case lately, and see what he does.. that’s enough playing time for him to work out his problems and find the “power surge” he claims to be expecting, but not too much for him to ruin anything for the Pirates. I don’t know about anyone else, but I was in grade school the last time the Pirates were in the playoffs and I know using Pearce, Jones, or Young over Moss isn’t going to get us there (or any more out of last in the central), but please, let us when what games we can.
But you know what? I am going to stay positive like someone wrote above, and if playing Moss makes the other fans and organization happy, so be it. I hope he has a big second half – I guess .280/10 isn’t out of the question for him.
One thing we can't see
is what kind of effect having Adam around has on Andy’s production. Adam is frustrating as hell to watch at the plate sometimes (well, a lot), I don’t know why anyone would ever throw him anything except an inside curve/slider at the ankles, BUT he does have a good glove, he IS at least an average MLB first baseman at the plate, and if the sum of the brothers is more than their parts, then I see no harm in keeping him around for another 2-3 years IF he comes at a reasonable price and IF we can’t leverage him into an absolute steal from a desperate contender.
There’s no doubt Adam is one of the best defensive 1B in the league, if not the best. But we didn’t trade for him three years ago for his defense. We made that trade for his offense, specifically his power, and management thought it had found our big, slugging first baseman for many years to come. Unfortunately, he’s been a huge disappointment on the offensive side.
Prospectus has him on pace for 6 runs above average this year and 10 in 2007, but every other year is in the negative. I wouldn’t overrate his glove. It’s the bat that matters.
by Gorkys n' Beans on Jul 6, 2009 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions
No Doubt?
Here’s some doubt for you. He doesn’t even show up in the top 35 defensive first basemen from last year.
I think you just make stuff up a lot.
by Androgen Jar Jimmy on Jul 6, 2009 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Evaluating 1B defense is hard.
UZR is good, but it suffers when comparing 1Bs and Cs, since it’s basically just a measure of range afield, and those two jobs include a heavy emphasis on catching thrown balls.
Agree Agree
Agree
Since we are most likely NOT going to make the playoffs, why does it matter if we win 50 more games or 10 more games.
Fact : Brandon Moss will turn 26 in August
Fact : Which will be about a month before McLouth will turn 28
Fact : Brandon Moss hit 8 HR last year in 236 AB’s (In his 24-25 age season)
Fact : Which is 1 HR more than McLouth hit in 270 AB’s in 2006 (in his 24-25 age season)
Fact : To ensure unbiased objective facts, it can be noted that McLouth hit 13 HR’s in 2007 in 329 AB’s, showing a steady increase in power
Fact : While Moss has dropped off this year
Fact : But it is only the beginning of July
Fact : Plus, Moss may not be as fast as McLouth, but arguably has a better glove and will only have to man a corner outfield position
My point is Moss is still fairly young and he may develop if he develops positively in the next couple of years into one of three major things
1. An above average defender and average bat as a corner outfielder with McCutchen and Tabata/Hernandez/Milledge?
2. If we get three better starting outfielders then he becomes an excellent fourth outfielder
3. Trade bait similar to McClouth or Nady.
I personally don’t see Jones or DY having any of that potential with their only chance of being “better” than Moss would be strictly as a pinch hitter.
Let Moss play.
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Jul 6, 2009 1:54 PM EDT reply actions
Seems like....
…quite a few people are spending quite a lot of time making up excuses and apologies for Brandon Moss. Let’s let ol Brandon start living up to the hype and then we can all be happy. The funny thing is that lately, Brandon seems to be producing better in a limited role than he did as a regular.
Makes you wonder
why they just dont let him be a regular
Because the team is overloaded with OFs
(Moss, Young, Pearce, Salazar, Jones… not to mention ’Cutch!) and needs to play them all?
True Blue Jazz
Bucco Ball
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RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
Strike Young, Salazar and Jones
and you have what the outfield should be (Pearce, Cutch, Moss).
Pearce? Are you kidding me? No way should Pearce be in our outfield. The guy continues to show that he is a career minor leaguer.
Continues to show he is a career minor leaguer?
Before this past weekend, he has had zero ABs since June 24th. How does that continue to show you that he is a career minor leaguer? Why not give him DY’s ABs? DY is going to be a career pinch hitter.
So give a guy that has proven he can hit very well in the big leagues to a guy that flounders everytime he gets called up? Steve Pearce is a bench player at best and belongs in the minors.
You just proved my point
DY can hit very well in the big leagues. Steve Pearce hasnt had anywhere near his ABs. If you remember, the Dodgers cut him lose without giving him any ABs. You want to risk doing the same thing with Pearce?
No, the Dodgers cut DY loose because they have three guys named Manny Ramirez, Matt Kemp and Andre Ethier in their outfield. Steve Pearce is not part of our future. He continues to disappoint, and he doesn’t need to be taking at-bats away from Jones, Young or Moss.
If DY can hit very well in the big leagues
Why isnt he their number 1 pinch hitter and 4th outfielder? Why did the Dodgers let him go for a bag of balls? Your logic just doesnt make any sense. We can keep losing giving DY ABs when we KNOW what he brings to the table OR we can put in a player we need to find out about. Why do you hate Pearce so much?
Well, No. 1: They have Juan Pierre as their fourth outfielder, who isn’t as good of a hitter, but has great speed and whose defense is a lot better than Young’s is right now. No. 2: DY was on the DL when they traded him. Maybe they didn’t know how much time he was going to miss and didn’t want to wait on him. It’s not about loving or hating Pearce. I don’t even know the guy. It’s the simple fact that he has regressed considerably since having his breakout year in the minors in 2007. Since hitting 31 total HRs that year in the minors, Pearce has been given three different stints with the big club and has done nothing with those opportunities. None of his minor league success has translated over the to the big leagues. Pearce and DY are the same age, so it’s not like one is an aging veteran and the other is still an up-and-coming prospect. At this point, DY is a major league hitter and Pearce isn’t. Simple as that. Yes, we are a losing team, but the object of this game is to still put the best lineup out there every single night in order to try and win the game. Pearce isn’t going to get at-bats or starts over a guy that is hitting over .300 and has proven he can get the job done. It’s not a love/hate thing at all. I don’t know you came up with that. It’s about production.
Fact is
you know what DY can do. He is proven. Contratry to your belief, Pearce has many fewer ABs than DY. These “stints” with the club were no more than a cup of coffee and 40ABs. Give him a chance to prove his worth. 10 days between ABs doesnt showcase a player at all.
Save-a you breath-a. She’s-a no gonna do you-a no good.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Jul 7, 2009 8:36 PM EDT up reply actions
No wonder at all
Everytime they try to expand his role, he chokes on the opportunity. Remember how well he was doing early on against RHP? Then everyone wanted him to play against LHP. They let huim and he immediately went in the tank against both sides. So, after sitting him they game him everyday starts against RHP and that was too much for him. So, if he produces best playing 3 or 4 times a wqeek, I say make the most of it and give some other guys a shot on those open days. If he wants to play everyday, they could probably use him in Indy.
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