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Russell Returns for 2010


According to Dejan, the Pirates will retain John Russell as the manager for next year. 

Good move?

Now, I know not many people like him. But,

1. It's not his fault, we have to wait for our prospects and then we will be a contender. And, as much as it is going to sting for us to be the team to set the record for losing seasons, we wouldn't of avoided it with the team we had. And now, we could be looking at cconstant winning.

2. He's had to deal with constant, non-stop roster moves. No manager in pro ball can help a team win win they don't have the players that will help win. Our prospects, in the future, can help the Pittsburgh Pirates win a World Series.

 

Finally, we don't even have a good replacement. There is not many available managers that have experience and the ability to win. So, even though he isn't Lou Pinella or Ozzie Guillen, he is a solid manager. Who thpught Joe Maddon was a good manager? Now look at him with great players.

 

Poll
Good move for the Pirates to have Russell return?
Yes.
56 votes
No
41 votes

97 votes | Poll has closed

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of the managing editor (Charlie) or SB Nation. FanPosts are written by Bucs Dugout readers.

Comment 38 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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“…even though he isn’t Lou Pinella or Ozzie Guillen…”

When you put it that way, it almost makes me want to change my vote to “yes”.

by wickethewok on Aug 17, 2009 1:58 PM EDT reply actions  

I'd go for Joe Torre as manager

but only if he gave back to Willie Stargell the MVP trophy for ’71.

by WstCstBucco on Aug 17, 2009 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t think it’s either a good or bad move. At this stage in the Pirates journey to success who the manager is hardly matters at all.

I made most of my life decisions at a Foghat concert... I stand by them.

by Chester J Lampwick on Aug 17, 2009 2:18 PM EDT reply actions  

I agree

Chester’s got it right. Your missing the point air holmes, having JR or not doesn’t matter at all until there’s a team worth a good coach. When the time comes that we’ve got a competent major league roster, I’m sure NH and co. will reevaluate the head coach position. Guarantee that.

Benny Benack III

by benny benack on Aug 17, 2009 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Bad Move

This guy is a bump on a log for crying out loud, hes like a turtle afraid to come out of his shell. I dont like him he couldnt be a bench coach here so why they brought him back as a head coach is beyond me. If we would actually spend some money for a good coach we might be ok for next years young group of talent coming up. Lets not forget Ken Macha was out there when we needed a coach and I say they didnt want to pay him, the guy would have been a great fit for here hes from here but it was money, JR needs to go if we want any chance of winning in the future.

by baseballssp3 on Aug 17, 2009 2:37 PM EDT reply actions  

Ken Macha

Seriously? You’re pushing Ken Macha?

by Slizeezyc on Aug 17, 2009 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why not?

He has experience, I was just throwing out a name better than what we have. JR couldnt even hold a job as a freaking base coach!

by baseballssp3 on Aug 17, 2009 3:01 PM EDT reply actions  

Yeah, the manager doesn’t matter unless the talent is there. Who knows if Russell is a good skipper or not? I’ve watched almost all of these games and still have no idea.

Say hello to the Bad Guy!

by Pirates4Life on Aug 17, 2009 3:09 PM EDT reply actions  

He has his moments every now and then especially in using relief pitchers and having starters go too long but it’s really easy to manage from in front of my tv.

I made most of my life decisions at a Foghat concert... I stand by them.

by Chester J Lampwick on Aug 17, 2009 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

I do it all the time with Video Games.

I once had a pitcher throw 145 pitches when tore his rotator cuff. And he only needed two more outs to throw a no hitter.

by IAPiratesFan on Aug 17, 2009 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Dusty?!?

I made most of my life decisions at a Foghat concert... I stand by them.

by Chester J Lampwick on Aug 17, 2009 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

I see both ways

He could try to adjust better, like in wrigley he wasn’t guarding the outfield lines with the corner outfielders even the announcers said something about it. I’m not sure why he keeps putting Jones in RF he hasn’t shown me to much he can play OF, but hey maybe he wants to experiment, so who knows only time will tell. Lets hope if he is still here when the talent comes he can make it happen.

by baseballssp3 on Aug 17, 2009 4:08 PM EDT reply actions  

I can understand the decision

it’s not like Coonelly gave JR an extension. That would be totally unwarranted.

All he did was say he’s not firing the guy and paying him off next year.

JR is undoubtedly one of the worst managers in the ML. Many of his biggest problems derive from things where he has beliefs that run counter to 100 years of MLB collective wisdom. Three quick examples of JR’s “genius” (i.e., real stupidity) would be:

1. Filling out the starting lineup several days ahead of the game. This leads to choking off hot streaks, that are important with a team that pretty much lacks consistent offense.
2. His belief that LF is the hardest OF position to play (Willie Stargell and Roberto Clemente are both spinning in their graves, and Bill Virdon and Andy Van Slyke should just slap him next time they see him).
3. His bizarre placement of the LF toward CF, both in PNC and on the road. (See baseballssp3 comment above.)

I also think he’s far too uninvolved for a manager of a young team. He doesn’t act like he’s got their back on bad calls. Even when one of his guys, Capps, is thrown out for hitting Albert Pujols (not cause he did it on purpose, but because a team like the PBC just can’t hit Albert Pujols), JR can barely be bothered to argue the call. A young team is looking for a little more fire.

And while JR knows that the only way his team can score is to manufacture runs, he can’t bring himself to engage enuff in the game to call hit & runs, run & hits, steals, etc. His defenders tell me that, for example, Cutch has a “green light” to steal. Well, that ain’t working very well — JR needs a “steal next pitch” sign for him and other youngsters.

I applaud JR for one thing, and one thing only. He clearly believes in continuing teaching at the ML level, particularly defense. It’s had an affect on Luigi and Young for sure, and maybe others.

I look forward to a new PBC field manager in 2011, and the possible firing of JR during next season if he doesn’t pick it up. I don’t expect JR to turn into “Lou Brown” next year, but “conscious during games” would be a nice, attainable goal for him.


“My kinda team, Charlie. My kinda team.”

by WstCstBucco on Aug 17, 2009 4:49 PM EDT reply actions  

Can you tell me

how many wins have ever resulted from a manager arguing with an umpire?

by bucdaddy on Aug 17, 2009 9:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not buying the "choke off hot streaks" thing.

You can’t know what players would’ve done if they’d started. Maybe the streak would’ve ended anyway, even if the player in question had been in the lineup.

Also, as far as PNC Park is concerned, he’s absolutely right about LF being tougher to play than RF. There’s a lot more ground to cover. Plus, it’s been an organizational article of faith all the way back to the Bonifay days – that’s why Giles was there when he moved out of center.

by Vlad on Aug 18, 2009 9:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

Van Slyke

maybe we could bring a guy like that in just to put a couple more people in the seats, since there is no winning possible in the immediate future

by 22cutchhappens on Aug 17, 2009 5:30 PM EDT reply actions  

OH, yeah

I can just see it … 500,000 fans come to games saying to themselves, “I really want to see how that Van Slyke guy manages THIS one.” I’m guessing half or more of the fans who show up now couldn’t name the manager at any given time.

by bucdaddy on Aug 17, 2009 9:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

"sarcasim

is like a second language to me so I am right with you" – Andy Stitzer
besides did watch the game tonight? every little bit helps.

by 22cutchhappens on Aug 17, 2009 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm for it

That would be sweet if he was our manager, may as well give him a shot who knows?

by baseballssp3 on Aug 17, 2009 5:42 PM EDT reply actions  

How bout Kirk Gibson?

Dude hit a GWHR off ECK one-legged for cryin’ out loud

That’s guts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by BadAndy on Aug 17, 2009 6:40 PM EDT reply actions  

I thought he was supposed to be a "coach"?

People keep commenting that it wouldn’t matter who coached this team now and into next year?

I wonder how many people said that in Detroit the year before Jimmy Leyland got picked up by the Tigers….

He came in and took a losing team, with no HUGE additions, and “coached” them to the World Series!

I may be a moron, and everyone has their own opinion, but it seems to me that if we indeed have a Young Team filled with Untapped Talent, don’t we owe it to them to bring in a TEACHER? Leyland can’t be the only coach out there who has been around the block a few times….and if you can’t find THAT guy, get his No.1, VAN SLYKE!

He has been under Leyland for decades, deserves his shot at the head table, why not begin in Pittsburgh where people will actually GIVE A DAMN!?

I just believe that these children need guidance, they need a teacher. John Russell is not the man to teach this team how to be winners.

We keep saying that this player or that player “won’t be part of the next winning Pitates team”, then why would we keep around a second rate coach who obviously won’t be part of it either?

by PureTekulve on Aug 17, 2009 7:03 PM EDT reply actions  

Rinse and repeat

Who else wants to push the same two guys. Anyone?

by Slizeezyc on Aug 17, 2009 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Without checking

the Tigers went to the World Series because a couple of pitchers who had not distinguished themselves previously and have not particularly distinguished themselves since (Robertson, Bonderman) had career years at the same time and a geriatric pitcher had one last hurrah in him.

Verlander, though, he’s the real deal.

by bucdaddy on Aug 17, 2009 9:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Russell is actually a very good teacher, in some respects.

Does nobody else remember the sudden, significant improvement in Jason Kendall’s defense when Russell first came on board?

As for “learning to win”, that’s (excuse my French) warmed-over motivational seminar bullshit.

by Vlad on Aug 18, 2009 9:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

Don't get me wrong...

I love Andy Van Slyke and Jim Leyland. Do they have any track record of turning losing teams into winners ? No. Afraid not. Leyland has always won with talented ( and highly paid ) professional baseball players, not a ragtag group of misfits like we have on our current roster. Van Slyke, although a fan favorite in Yinzburgh, has no managerial experience.
I’m hoping we can get a Morris Buttermaker to lead our Bucco team into contention in the near future. At least to some crazy tournament in Japan.

"Baseball is better than football. Think about it, eighty degrees, a cold beer and a short-sleeve shirt is better than 30 degrees, a hip flask and six layers of clothes under a lap blanket. Take your pick: suntan or frostbite. " - Thomas Boswell

by Ketcham Bruce on Aug 17, 2009 9:13 PM EDT reply actions  

World Series Champions 2011 ?

"Baseball is better than football. Think about it, eighty degrees, a cold beer and a short-sleeve shirt is better than 30 degrees, a hip flask and six layers of clothes under a lap blanket. Take your pick: suntan or frostbite. " - Thomas Boswell

by Ketcham Bruce on Aug 17, 2009 9:19 PM EDT reply actions  

Bad News Bucs!

Free your ass and your mind will follow.

by cocktailsfor2 on Aug 17, 2009 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Doubtful...

since Coach Buttermaker is dead.

by Thunder on Aug 18, 2009 7:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

Matthau is dead, but not Billy Bob !

"Baseball is better than football. Think about it, eighty degrees, a cold beer and a short-sleeve shirt is better than 30 degrees, a hip flask and six layers of clothes under a lap blanket. Take your pick: suntan or frostbite. " - Thomas Boswell

by Ketcham Bruce on Aug 18, 2009 8:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

Should a coach or manager “wait” for talent to develop, or is it the job of coach and manager to play a part in developing talent to major league standards? The greatest teachers are the ones who lead their students to greater heights, not sit around and wait for already gifted students to show up.

Manager Russell has shown me little ability to work with developing talent. One example in my mind has been his indecisiveness oncerning Moss. As soon as Moss seems to be getting his stroke, he is taken out of the lineup.

As previously mentioned, he seems to lack the courage to cover his players backs. After humiliating defeats that has left the Pirate fanbase stunned, he put up a lame protest on a “missed” tag at second base against the Cubs Saturday that cost the Pirates a run, and was perhaps the turning point in the game. No matter that the runner was obviously out of the baseline. Only a mild retort by Russell. What would Lou have done if it happened to his Cubs?

Russell is faced with an ever-changing cast that seems to grow younger and younger each day. What personal responsibility does he own up to publically that would take the pressure off the developing players? None, in my mind. He mumbles about this and that in post-game interviews, commenting on things that are obvious to the fans, then goes about filling out the line-up for the next game. If this is the expectation of the heads of the organization, then they certainly don’t need a change in their manager. Sign him up for another 17 years!

by hermitage hero on Aug 18, 2009 11:02 AM EDT reply actions  

Lou would have thrown a sh*t fit

And he might have got tossed, and the call would have stood, and the runner would have stayed at second, and the fans would have been entertained for a minute, and if the Cubs had the Pirates’ players and the Pirates had the Cubs’ players, the Cubs would have lost, 17-2.

If Mike Tomlin thinks one of his players was blatantly held, does he run to the middle of the field and kick and scream and pitch a fit? Never. Not once. So the Steelers probably think he doesn’t have their backs. If Phil Jackson thinks one of his players got fouled, does he run onto the floor and scream and throw stuff and make an ass of himself, so that the players think he has their backs? Do the Penguins think Dan Bylsma doesn’t have their backs if he doesn’t jump on the ice and practically assault the referee over a missed call?

Bylsma … I like using him because I think he acts, sounds and even looks almost exactly like Russell. But I’ve never ever heard a Penguins fan complain he “doesn’t have their backs.” Have you? Why do you think that is? Because they have talent to win, and the Pirates don’t, not by a long shot. So what you really want is a sideshow freakshow to make up for the boring main event. Hey, they tried that, it was called the XFL, and it lasted a year.

by bucdaddy on Aug 18, 2009 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Free your ass and your mind will follow.

by cocktailsfor2 on Aug 18, 2009 8:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

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