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Around SBN: Win or Lose, Boston Celtics' New Big 3 Era A Success

Ronny Cedeno Breaks Up Yusmeiro Petit's No-Hit Bid in 8th

Not the best night for the Pirates, who nearly were no-hit by Yusmeiro Petit. I only caught the last few innings, when Petit was obviously tired and it was hard to tell how even the Pirates failed to get a hit. Petit only struck out four for the game, while walking three, so you can probably chalk up his near-no-hitter more as offensive incompetence by the Pirates than as amazing pitching on his part. 

A couple of observations:

-I hated Luis Rivas' gray sneakers, but I love Lastings Milledge's yellow laces.

-When did Mark Reynolds turn into the new Ryan Howard? Reynolds didn't do anything crazy tonight, but he looked great, driving his foul balls about a million miles. If you make any sort of mistake to him, watch out.

And some links:

MLB - Chicago Cubs/Cincinnati Reds Box Score Tuesday August 4, 2009
Tom Gorzelanny was not just good but excellent in his debut with the Cubs, striking out six, walking one and allowing just three hits in 7.3 innings. Gulp. I can't believe he's really changed that much in one start, but it'll say something pretty awful about the Pirates' coaching if the Cubs are able to fix him in short order. I was fine with the Gorzelanny trade in part because I figured his arm was fried and in part because I wasn't that impressed with his AAA numbers. Not that they weren't good, but you expect a veteran pitcher to succeed in AAA. I'd would have rather have taken a shot on someone new, someone who wouldn't be eligible for arbitration soon, rather than worry much about Gorzelanny, who hasn't pitched well in the bigs for a couple of years. I'm not sure how fair that was of me, but that's what I thought at the time. I'm not sure how much I should change that now. In the comments, though, Maguro has a really good point: the Reds lineup Gorzelanny faced today was horrible:

Taveras CF
Rosales 3B
Votto 1B
Phillips 2B
Gomes RF
Balentien LF
Gonzalez SS
Hanigan C
Cueto P

Basically, that's Joey Votto, Brandon Phillips and a AAA team. You could make a case for Jonny Gomes and Ryan Hanigan being a bit better than that, based on their stats this year, but it wouldn't be a very compelling one, based on their careers as a whole. I'd like to see Gorzelanny mow down a couple of real big league lineups before I worry too much about the Pirates misjudging him.

Patriot-News: Mazeroski Supports Pirates' Overhaul
Bill Mazeroski comes out in support of the Pirates' recent flurry of trades, which is quite the 180 since last year, when he ranted after the Xavier Nady trade that "We just traded two of our best players for four guys I never heard of."

Minor League Baseball: Indianapolis vs. Durham
Daniel McCutchen was awesome through 6.3 innings tonight, striking out seven and walking none. This McCutchen has fallen off the radar this year a little, but he probably now should be considered a viable option for the last spot in the rotation. Earlier this year, I'd worried that he'd allow too many homers as a big league starter, but he's now allowed only three (including one tonight) since the end of May.

Minor League Baseball: Altoona vs. Portland
Pedro Alvarez, Gorkys Hernandez and Brian Friday all had big nights against Boston's AA affiliate. Alvarez went 3-for-6 with a homer and two doubles.

Minor League Baseball: Kannapolis vs. West Virginia
Starling Marte, Robbie Grossman and Quincy Latimore have contributed two hits apiece tonight against Kannapolis. A couple days ago, someone in the comments asked why Latimore doesn't receive more attention. It's a fair question, and the answer probably has something to do with the facts that people (understandably) don't trust Dave Littlefield's draft picks, and that Latimore hasn't posted a really dominant season yet. But he's always been fairly young for his levels, and this year he's batting .283 with good power. I'm a little bit wary of him because his control of the strike zone has been atrocious, but he's definitely a prospect.

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Frankly...

the Cubs haven’t done anything to fix Gorzo. When he returned to Indy from Pittsburgh…he pitched 46.1 innings, gave up 33 hits, 6 ER, 14 BB, 49 K and 1 HR. That’s an ERA of 1.17 and a WHIP of 1.014. And has a 2.54 ERA for the year.

I said it on the day they traded him…that is one player I had trouble with the Pirates giving up. They will regret trading him…and I’ve already predicted he throws a shutout against us before the end of the season. He was kept in Indy the last 2 months solely to save a year of arbitration. And if I counted the days correctly…getting called up today…he falls 1 day short of arbitration eligibility after this season.

by Thunder on Aug 4, 2009 10:06 PM EDT reply actions  

I couldn't agree more.

We sold low on Gorzo and that’s the end of it. That was not a good trade!

by Slick1 on Aug 4, 2009 10:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

If we would have gotten just the pitchers for Grabow alone, it would have been a great trade.

by Gorkys n' Beans on Aug 4, 2009 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree.

Though it is doubtful we would have got Hart for just Grabow. That being said I wouldn’t be that upset for Acencio (or how the hell ever you spell his name) and Harris for Grabow.

by Slick1 on Aug 5, 2009 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

The thing they did to fix Gorzo

was to start him against Cincinnati. Their lineup tonight:

Taveras CF
Rosales 3B
Votto 1B
Phillips 2B
Gomes RF
Balentien LF
Gonzalez SS
Hanigan C
Cueto P

They’re just as bad as the Bucs, if not worse.

by maguro on Aug 4, 2009 10:17 PM EDT reply actions  

Yikes, that’s terrible.

by Charlie Wilmoth on Aug 4, 2009 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

PitchFx on Gorzo

That lineup might be bad, but PitchFx has him averaging over 92mph on his fastball, topping out just shy of 95. Yikes indeed. I didn’t believe the (hearsay) reports he’d rediscovered his velocity, but I guess I’ll have to believe it now. Any way you slice it that was an impressive outing for him. Dominating bad lineups is what good pitchers do.

by azibuck on Aug 4, 2009 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Terrific outing by Gorzo, don’t get me wrong. But we all know that a lot of bad pitchers have dominated the Pirates this year, so let’s wait a few weeks before declaring Gorzo to be back to his old self.

by maguro on Aug 4, 2009 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Gorzo was not a bad pitcher.

His career statistics show he was a good pitcher who had a bad year in 2008.

by Slick1 on Aug 5, 2009 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

Y'all are forgetting the rule

NH can do no wrong.

If he traded Gorzo, Gorzo must be toast. QED. Pay no attention to the dominant performance you only think you see.

by JRoth95 on Aug 5, 2009 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well, it's one game.

You shouldn’t get too excited about one game, no matter who’s doing it, or what they did. Virgil Vasquez looked pretty good in his first start this year, didn’t he? Six innings, two runs, four hits, two walks, seven Ks. Almost the same line as the one Gorz put up last night.

Good thing we didn’t put up any statues for him, isn’t it?

by Vlad on Aug 5, 2009 9:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

Not quite

+2 ER, +1 H, +1 BB, +1 K, -1.1 INN.

Other than one strikeout, it’s worse in every particular. WHIP 1.0 vs. 0.55.

I take your point – of course it’s just one start – but no one would look at those two outings and call them “almost the same.”

by JRoth95 on Aug 5, 2009 9:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

If it's not close enough to work for you, fine.

There are lots of other examples (like Karstens’s first two starts for us last year, or Josh Fogg’s first two career starts in 2002, etc.). Use one of those instead.

The larger point is the main issue. One good start does not a career resurgence make.

by Vlad on Aug 5, 2009 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

Both Snell and Gorzo Had good 1st games.

I wanna see how they fare against some good teams. I think Cincinnati is in 5th place right?
So follow them through the rest of the year. Usually the 1st game back in MLB I would think the adrenaline is pumping and both players have to have a chip on their shoulder now that they were sent to minors and came back up. Trying to prove the Pirates wrong. Time will tell.

by lfhlaw on Aug 5, 2009 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Pedro...

3-6 with 2 2B and a HR…now has slash number at Altoona of .307/.380/.583 for an OPS of .963.

Overall numbers… .268/.358/.519 for an OPS of .877, 22 HR and 79 RBI. Has 107 K in 422 PA (25.4% K/AB)

by Thunder on Aug 4, 2009 10:25 PM EDT reply actions  

In my fantasy team

I started Cueto – I thought he’d be a shoe-in agains Gorzo… might be time to dump him, that’s too many bad starts by Cueto of late.

by BlindSquirrel on Aug 4, 2009 10:49 PM EDT reply actions  

re: Volquez and now Cueto: Dusty Baker strikes again?

by Gorkys n' Beans on Aug 4, 2009 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not like...

Homer Bailey has been a success story there either…considering how highly touted he was.

by Thunder on Aug 4, 2009 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Bailey had the disadvantage of being rushed and jerked around like a yo-yo, though. Cueto and Volquez got there when they were supposed to.

www.sixtyftsixin.com

by Sixty Feet, Six Inches on Aug 5, 2009 1:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

I finally dumped Cueto in all my league after tonight. I’m beginning to think his arm is tired or even injured. Mat Latos could be good for a few starts before his innings limit kicks in.

by thegreatchris on Aug 4, 2009 11:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not wishing Gorzo to fail

but if he returns to form, I’m not so much worried about the trade, as I am about how pittsburgh handles and will handle their young pitchers in the coming years.
It’s great to get prospects, but many are assuming that we have the right staff and coaching support in place.
It’s still early and I would like to think we do.

by vherub on Aug 4, 2009 11:11 PM EDT reply actions  

If Cedeno is our offensive saviour...

God help us.

Free your ass and your mind will follow.

by cocktailsfor2 on Aug 4, 2009 11:15 PM EDT reply actions  

As long as Hart and Ascanio

work out for us, I don’t care. I know it’s fun to think we really screwed the people we traded with, but really, the object of a trade isn’t to screw the other guy, it’s to help both teams get better. Sometimes it’s hard to see where both sides benefit, but still, if you screw a team too badly or too often, that G.M. is going to be very wary of trading with you in the future, and that’s not what you want.

by bucdaddy on Aug 4, 2009 11:44 PM EDT reply actions  

But unless one or both work out well – as in, become middle-front of the rotation guys – then we didn’t get enough value. It’s nothing to do with screwing the Cubs, it’s about selling low and not getting enough value for our players.

I’ve said before that I think NH has a tendency to let emotions/personalities get the best of him, and I think Gorzo looks a lot like another example.

WTM likes to say that you can’t judge individual trades, because it’s all part of a strategy and not every trade can be a winner, but I think that you can say in real time when a trade looks dubious, and I didn’t like the Gorzo trade from the get-go. [On the other trade involving a pitcher with a fraught past – Snell – I’m not sure what I think, because it seems like it helped them get a lot of return for Jack, and that equals real value for the team, esp. if Cedeno fills SS tolerably for a couple years; OTOH, they unquestionably sold low on Snell, and didn’t get any no-doubt talent in return]

by JRoth95 on Aug 5, 2009 9:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

If you didn't like the Gorzo trade

from the get-go, and aren’t basing the outcome on one game, then OK, that’s fair.

by bucdaddy on Aug 5, 2009 9:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

Oh yeah

I was pretty vocal even before it was announced that I was really uncomfortable with the idea – it was completely unnecessary (alternative was Grabow walking for no compensation OR us paying him an arbitration raise – neither a dire result), and not clearly gaining us great talent.

Maybe the guys we got back turn out to be studs, but it seems to me an unnecessary risk. Yesterday’s performance just underlines how much we gave up (it’s not as if Gorzo’s performance was unprecedented – he has a better track record than any of the guys Vlad cited up above)

by JRoth95 on Aug 5, 2009 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

He had a better track record...

…but let’s not get carried away here. We’re talking about Tom Gorzelanny, not Tom Seaver.

by Vlad on Aug 5, 2009 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

YUSMEIRO

Well the Pirates offense isn’t very good. But I have a strange obsession with Yusmeiro Petit now… check out my ridiculous write-up on him on my blog. http://eatsleepmlb.mlblogs.com

by McEffect on Aug 4, 2009 11:50 PM EDT reply actions  

Hate to say I told you so...

But I recall saying Daniel McCutchen should be given a shot at the Majors earlier this season and almost getting laughed out of the comments section. I told you all he looked really good live.

Also, I had my reservations about trading Gorzo, but I’m not too worried about it as a whole.

www.sixtyftsixin.com

by Sixty Feet, Six Inches on Aug 5, 2009 1:29 AM EDT reply actions  

Charlie, question

when you post 6.3 and 7.3 innings, do you mean 6 1/3 and 7 1/3? I could be wrong, but I’ve always seen it as 6, 6.1, 6.2, 7, 7.1, 7.2 etc.

Its just semantics, but I just wanted to clarify. I’m probably wrong anyway, lol.

by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Aug 5, 2009 2:04 AM EDT reply actions  

No, that threw me, too.

I mean, logically 1/3 inning = 0.3 inning (more or less), but that’s not the usage I’m used to.

by JRoth95 on Aug 5, 2009 9:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

No, I believe he was wearing his brand new leopard skin pillbox hat at the time.

charity standing orders

by BadMaafala on Aug 5, 2009 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Fetching!

Kind of surprised that Charlie looks so much like Jackie Kennedy…NTTAWWT.

by maguro on Aug 5, 2009 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

When cocktails said "old-school"

I gotta admit I was picturing Charlie’s look as more like this:

by WstCstBucco on Aug 5, 2009 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

THIS

is the pillbox hat in question:

.

Free your ass and your mind will follow.

by cocktailsfor2 on Aug 5, 2009 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Rabble, rabble, rabble

JR is giving Jeff Salazar a start tonight?

If JR needs to rest Cutch for a game, shouldn’t it be Milledge in CF, Moss in LF and Jones in RF? As a ML, Milledge has played more games in CF than LF and RF combined.

I can’t think of a single reason why Salazar is even on the ML roster, let alone playing, let alone starting. Somebody should check JR for stroke symptoms.

.

by WstCstBucco on Aug 5, 2009 4:02 PM EDT reply actions  

On the positive side, it's more reasons to use

                 in the game thread. But at least it’s given something for the PBC commenters to rattle on about instead of attempting to understand the MLB draft and signing draft picks.(props to WTM for trying to show NuHo how wrong his thinking was, though I’m not sure if he understood it)

Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock

by Green_Wave on Aug 5, 2009 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's near the bottom of this link in the comments

link

Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock

by Green_Wave on Aug 5, 2009 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Salazar isn't a bad player.

He hasn’t hit much since he came up (or, truth to tell, at AAA earlier in the year), but he’s got more offense than he’s shown in his 19 AB thus far. And as for the roster spot, he’s got a lot of tactical value – lefty bat, can play a decent CF, runs well, decent contact hitter if you need a PH.

Milledge is miscast as a CF, so I don’t mind them not using him there. If anything, I might like to see Moss get a few CF innings – his performance in right has been really outstanding this year, and if he can at least fake CF, that’d give him some extra value.

by Vlad on Aug 5, 2009 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Those .737 AAA OPSs don’t translate too well to the Bigs. Maybe as a defensive replacement.

by Gorkys n' Beans on Aug 5, 2009 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

He was a much better hitter before this year, though.

Career .282/.363/.461 at AAA, including this year’s struggles. Some of that is park effects, but some of it is talent, too.

All the machine projections I saw in the preseason, which were based on his minor league track record, had him between .700 and .750 in the majors this year. For whatever reason, he’s really underperformed.

by Vlad on Aug 5, 2009 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

The crazy part of the lineup, to me...

…is Cedeno leading off.

We don’t have any really natural options there on rest days for Cutch, but you have to think that LaRoche or Lastings could do a better job of setting the table.

by Vlad on Aug 5, 2009 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

agree

but is it crazier than Jack Wilson batting in the two hole? Maybe

Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock

by Green_Wave on Aug 5, 2009 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

exactly what i was going to say

cedeno lead off!!!

i d have preferred milledge up and laroche in the 2-hole maybe…

also, i have been a proponent of giving doumit a day off, but our line-up really does look much better with him in it- not saying it is better, just saying it looks better!

Cutch has a headache from the horrendous pitching the last few days?

by BurgherKing on Aug 5, 2009 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Bixler would be my guess

with Diaz at SS

Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time. -Lou Brock

by Green_Wave on Aug 5, 2009 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

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