I get more and frustrated with Pirates ownership and then way the team was mismanaged in the past. Nothing against Moskos, but look, he’s not even in the Top 30 prospects list for us. We passed on Matt Weiters, who would have been #1 on our list, who is now taking the starting catcher job full time for Baltimore. How much more would it have cost ownership to sign Weiters? 3-4 million more than what we paid Moskos? I wouldn’t even imagine trying to route for another team, I’m a die hard Pirates fan, but some of the crazy talent evaluators in the past are just driving me insane.

and morris low. but, i think dodson, could be a lot higher than others worth watching. all-in-all.
A- rankings

these rankings are so off base its terrible…you have chase d’arnaud and josh harrison above Neil Walker?? I basically laughed at that. Especially for the fact that Walker is hitting for the most power as any prospect right now and has really good defense. Also I can’t stand that everyone on this site ranks pitchers are there strikeout rate. If a pitcher can consistantly get hitters out, who the F cares if his strikeout rate is low…

I have a blissful ignorance of most other teams farm systems except for the top prospects. So how does the Pirates system right now, two years into the NH experiment, compare with other teams?

Our top 30 seems at least average and possibly a little better than that, am I wrong?

it’s probably mere quibbling, but:

I’d argue it’s unfair to have Latimore 15 spots below Grossman – does a year of age make that much difference? And Latimore has (in spite of his lack of walks) been a bit more consistent across the season.

Also, Wilbur, why so down on Lorin? And I think I would drop walker in order to toss in someone like moreno

I like it better than the one on the Post-Gazette site. I’m excited about getting Jarek Cunnignham back, wouldn’t be surprised if he cracked the top 10 next year.

But I count 24 of the 30 as having been acquired by NH. I have these six as being Littlefield acquisitions:

Lincoln
Owens
Marte
Latimore
Uviedo
Walker

That seems pretty good considering NH has been at the helm less than two years.

…here’s Sickles’ Top 20 from 19 months ago (1/6/08):

1. Andrew McCutchen, OF, Grade A-
2. Steven Pearce, OF-1B, Grade B+
3. Neil Walker, 3B, Grade B (not convinced he’ll hit quite as well as they expect)
4. Daniel Moskos, LHP, Grade B
5. Brad Lincoln, RHP, Grade C+ (pending recovery from TJ)
6. Brian Bixler, SS, Grade C+
7. Shelby Ford, 2B, Grade C+
8. Duke Welker, RHP, Grade C+
9. Brian Friday, SS, Grade C+
10. Andrew Walker, C, Grade C+
11. Jamie Romak, OF, Grade C
12. Nyjer Morgan, OF, Grade C
13. Brad Corley, OF, Grade C
14. Bryan Bullington, RHP, Grade C
15. Matt Peterson, RHP, Grade C
16. Romulo Sanchez, RHP, Grade C
17. Quincy Latimore, OF, Grade C
18. Marcus Davis, OF, Grade C
19. Tony Watson, LHP, Grade C
20. Josh Sharpless, RHP, Grade C

Other grade “C” players at that time: James Boone, Pat Bresnahan, David Davidson, Yoslan Herrera, Jared Hughes, Evan Meek, Luis Munoz, Jonel Pacheco, Alexander Presley, Todd Redmond, Kevin Roberts, Brian Rogers, Marino Salas, and Keanon Simon.

That was a trainwreck

Couple of questions for you, and then anyone else who wants to respond. Say ZVR signs as expected on Monday and a couple of high ceiling picks sign as well. If you slot these guys into the top 30 would you just remove guys from the bottom of the list or would you reshuffle the list to keep someone like Black in there?

Second, you seem to like Lorin a fair bit. Do you think he is clearly head and shoulders above the two other guys we got in the trade.

Third, if you feel the inclination can you give a sentence on a couple of these guys as to what they lack (or have) that would make them more or less interesting:
Calvin Anderson
Hunter Strickland
Jeff Sues
Casey Erickson
Eric Hacker

Thanks for taking the time on all this stuff.

It’s good that opinions differ on the make-up of the Top Thirty. It promotes mostly healthy debate amongst all of us. But one thing I think we can all agree on is that the crops NH has planted are in rich, fertile soil and should be robust at harvest time. Sure, some will be destroyed by crows, the elements, parasites, pests, etc. And I admit that I am not a Phytopathologist nor did I play one on Green Acres. But the ones that will survive will allow us to reap a bountiful harvest. If you take a look at the farm stretching all the way down to the Dominican and especially Venezuela, you see a system that is becoming wealthy in talent from top to bottom for years to come, And what type of farmland did Farmer Dave leave us with? It was a barren fucking Dust Bowl!!

Grossman is too high and Latimore too low.

I also think you rate Tabata too low. I love him and honestly am torn between him and Alvarez. I will admit I’ve always been in love with a high average instead of a high homerun total. 300 is a more magical number than say 30 for me.

If you look at the bonuses given, I think the team must value Dodson higher than most scouting services. I think his bonus was in the neighborhood of $600,000, which is much more than Stephenson got. Maybe they had to pay him more to ensure Cain would come along, but it seems like the team holds him in pretty high regard.

Well you havent seen him play yet so i wont be too harsh. Cain will mow down GCL hitters.

Continued his run of solid pitching tonight with 5.1 innings of one-run ball in Lynchburg’s 4-2 victory over Myrtle Beach. In his last three starts, 16.1 innings, he’s allowed three ER on 12 hits, walking two and striking out 15. I’m hoping to see one of his games in Lynchburg before the end of the season.

I’m just happy that we are getting to the point where we have quantity and quality in our farm system, which bodes very well for the future of the PBC.

Who would sit higher (foget relation to Alvarez)?

I’m just sayin’ . . . Bucs and Nats have had inverse fortunes of late, and the #1 overall is looking more and more like a possibility. I’m skeptical of Harper if for nothing else the hype, but his skill set sounds sick.

On another note, do you realize the Pirates’ career homerun leader is Doumit, followed by Milledge? That’s pretty depressing.

All rankings are more for discussion purposes than anything, so prior to offering my take, I think it’s a fairly solid list, well thought out, and overall a nice job.

My initial look at the list is that … I think it’s very aggressive. Based upon Sickels model, and how the grades came out last year, this would put the Pirates organization as one of the best in the minors, and I’m not sure I feel that way about your system (for full clarity’s sake, I’m not a Pirates fan). I think your system is much improved, but I think it’s probably in the bottom half of systems (as an aside, I don’t think there’s a really strong system in the NL Central, the top 3 systems in some order would probably be the Cubs/Reds/Pirates as of now, and all three are in the bottom half of minor league systems).

Don’t have an issue with Alvarez’s A-. I’d probably go B+, but I can see A-, as his bat has been more consistent. Sanchez’s B+ seems very aggressive. We’re still talking small samples for a college bat in the lower levels. I think he was probably underappreciated coming out, but a B+? That seems very aggressive – placing him as a top 50 prospect in baseball? Top 100, I could that, but top 50?

I’ve also got a tough time buying Tabata as a top 50 prospect in baseball and a B+. The lack of power is an issue, and will it develop? I’m also not huge on Alderson as a B+. Now, Alderson may crack some top prospect lists, but he’s got a really low K rate, average fastball. If he develops, this is a mid-end of the rotation starter with good control. He may have some more physical maturation left, but how much? If he was “ready”, then maybe you could slap a B+ on him as a sign of that, but he’s not. I don’t have a problem with the order of the top 5, although I’d probably flip Lincoln/Alderson around, but I think it’s more one A- and 4 B’s. Still very good.

I don’t like Grossman as much as you do yet. He’s being propped up by a high BABIP this year, which helps since he hits so many ground balls. He’s an intriguing talent, but a B? I’d lean more towards a C+/B- upside nod. The Owens grade is aggressive, but I like that one. He’s performed, and IIRC the scouting report, a big, sturdy lefty with a low 90’s fastball and a plus breaker is very valuable. I imagine he may run into some roadblocks as he moves up, but he’s a solid mid-end of the rotation lefty prospect.

I’m fine with the Marte grade. I think Von Rosenberg is a bit high as a B-, but everyone grades recent signees differently. I think expecting Hernandez to develop power is probably unrealistic. It’s not his profile, and it’s not his swing. He’s a slap the ball, get on base, Juan Pierre type offensive player if he makes it. He K’s way too much for that profile, hence why I’d personally go with a C for him. I was a fan of Gorkys, and I liked the trade.

I like Lorin as a C+. Feel like he’s a tiny bit underappreciated. No feeling one way or another on Cain. I can buy a C+ for Morris, though I’m iffy on that one. I like the C+ for Chase D’Arnaud. I think Miller’s C+ is a bit nice right now.

I’m surprised at how far Brian Friday seems to have dropped in Pirates fans minds. I’d easily have him as a top 30 guy for your system, and it’s for positive reasons (that is, I’m not slamming the system by including Friday). A 0.265/0.364/0.398/0.762 line isn’t bad for a AA shortstop. His adjusted line (for park and luck) is a much more stout 0.287/0.383/0.432/0.815). Certainly, one should use caution when reading too much into statistics, as you still have to perform, but I haven’t heard any huge defensive concerns, and he feels like a guy who could probably be at least a Ryan Theriot-level starter, which carries value). In fact, considering he’s close to ready, I would be okay with a C+ grade for Friday.