How Did Jim Tracy Get So Smart?

by zogger on Sep 12, 2009 11:31 AM EDT Comment 18 comments

IMHO, Jim Tracy was an awful manager for the Bucs. That being said, his record with the Dodgers was .527 and now with the Rockies it’s .667! With the Pirates it was .417. So either he gets dumb when he manages east of the Mississippi or something else is going on.

The results with the Bucs managers before/after Tracy were not much different then with him. McClendon was .430 and Russell is .402. So given the same poor talent in Pittsburgh, Tracy was unable to make any difference.

I can’t see what is different that makes Tracy so successful in Colorado. Clint Hurdle managed there for over six seasons. His record was .461. He only had one year when the team was above .500. When he got fired after 46 games, the team was 18-28. Tracy takes over the same team and they go 64-32! What gives?

I have always felt that the manager has more effect on a team’s won-loss record than most stats indicate. I felt that it is more than the game management; it’s the player selection (who plays and when), the atmosphere (can he push the right buttons for each of the players), and can he handle the PR aspects. But the effect Tracy has had on the Rockies befuddles me. Any ideas?

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of the managing editor (Charlie) or SB Nation. FanPosts are written by Bucs Dugout readers.

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I think the Rockies turn around has more to do with get rid of Clint Hurdle rather than promoting Jim Tracy. The Rockies (and the Dodgers before) already had a pretty good core of players.

I will admit that it will take alot for me to accept the idea that Tracy is a good manager. We should wait and see what happens at the end of this season, or next, when he starts blaming the players for however their season ends.

by lighthouse913 on Sep 12, 2009 5:13 PM EDT via mobile reply actions

"when he starts blaming the players for however their season ends."

I see no problem with that. In fact, I think that’s why Tracy is having so much success with the Rockies. He is making every player accountable for their play.

Shortly after he took over, he benched Garrett Atkins, who was taking time away from guys clearly outperforming him that Hurdle ignored. He has continued to do this all season long, playing the hot guy and benching the cold, something that sounds so simple, but can be much harder to do than realized.

On the downside, when the team isn’t so successful, Tracy will continue to hold the players accountable, which they may not like hearing.

by jlk9697 on Sep 12, 2009 8:24 PM EDT reply actions

Too bad he didn’t see fit to hold Jeromy Burnitz and Ronnie Paulino accountable.

by WTM on Sep 12, 2009 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions

I suppose it's possible...

that he learned from the mistakes he made in Pittsburgh.

by Slick1 on Sep 12, 2009 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions

The point I meant to make (and I missed it completely) was that Jim Tracy’s MO is to blame the players for everything wrong that happens; while taking all the credit for brief moments for things that go corrrectly. Though the Rockies have put together a fine team; I still believe that Tracy will eventually screw up the Rockies. Just like his time with the Dodgers.

by lighthouse913 on Sep 14, 2009 2:34 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions

I think you’re right. Everybody was ecstatic in LA when they made the playoffs in 2004, but Tracy wasn’t smart enough to see that Adrian Beltre, Odalis Perez, and Cesar Izturis were miles over their heads; Steve Finley was washed up; Jose Hernandez has zero chance of repeating his .910 OPS in this dimension; and Paul LoDuca’s “leadership” was just something for sportswriters to prattle about and not something to build a team around. When DePodesta tried to build a stronger team, Tracy went into a year-long tantrum. No team has things go right indefinitely. As soon as the Rockies hit some adversity, the Bad Tracy will emerge.

by WTM on Sep 14, 2009 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions

Or the complete opposite is true

“I have always felt that the manager has more effect on a team’s won-loss record than most stats indicate. I felt that it is more than the game management; it’s the player selection (who plays and when), the atmosphere (can he push the right buttons for each of the players), and can he handle the PR aspects. But the effect Tracy has had on the Rockies befuddles me. Any ideas?”

That a manager, no matter how good or bad has very little effect on a team’s play. Personally, that is what I believe. I think Tracy proves that. Most likely, what we think of as a “good manager” is simply a guy that gets along with the media and happens to be in the right place at the right time.

by stratman01 on Sep 12, 2009 10:14 PM EDT reply actions

The Rockies have (young) talent.

The Pirates didn’t.

by phil79 on Sep 13, 2009 2:00 AM EDT reply actions

Wonder how long

it will take him to wear out his welcome there, like he did with the Dodgers by openly defying his G.M. I always figured he wound up with the Pirates because a) nobody else would take the Pirates job and b) nobody else would give Tracy a job.

A match made in hell.

by bucdaddy on Sep 13, 2009 12:16 PM EDT reply actions

Don’t forget that c) he’s buddies with Littlefield.

by matskralc on Sep 13, 2009 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions

I think he just hasn't had...

…enough time to drill holes in the bottom of the boat, yet. He seemed decent enough at the start of his first year here – it wasn’t until that first offseason that the worm completely turned.

I did read last week that he convinced the Rockies not to trade for Brad Penny, presumably due to lingering resentment of DePo acquiring Penny in the Lo Duca deal during their LA days, so that’s at least confirmation that he’s still petty and vindictive. (And Penny’s gone 3-0 with a 1.64 ERA and 0.77 WHIP with SF since the deal, so Tracy’s player evaluation skills aren’t looking that hot, either).

by Vlad on Sep 14, 2009 10:30 AM EDT reply actions

Watch out. I got brutalized on this website a while ago for suggesting that Penny was still good.

- Gorkys'nBeans

by Adam Reynolds on Sep 14, 2009 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions

Eh.

It doesn’t really count as a day for me until someone disagrees with something I’ve said.

by Vlad on Sep 15, 2009 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions

I was kidding.

- Gorkys'nBeans

by Adam Reynolds on Sep 15, 2009 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions

That's just wrong!

Enjoy your day!

by bucdaddy on Sep 15, 2009 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions

I wouldn't be too quick to praise Tracy until you consider that...

Matt Holliday (before traded);
Brad Hawpe
Clint Barnes
Ryan Speier
Kip Wells
Micah Bowie
Luis Vizcaino
Troy Tulowitzki

were all on the DL at the same time during the early part of the season which could explain the firing. Personally, I believe that the manager has a very limited role in a team’s performance. I believe the coaches are more responsible for the improved play of the personel. For example, I believe that there is no pitching coach better than Dave Duncan of the Cardinals who has taken relievers (Wainwright) and players given up for dead by other teams (Pinero, Wellemeyer, etc.) and turned them all into an excellent pitching staff.
Jason Hirsh

by Illinois Pirate Fan on Sep 15, 2009 7:02 PM EDT reply actions

What are you talking about?

Holliday was traded last November. Vizcaino was traded in January. Kip Wells was released by Colorado last August, Bowie in June ( and the idea that either of these guys being on the DL as a negative hurting team performance is laughable to begin with). Hawpe, Barmes & Tulowitzki have NOT been on the DL this year. And if you’re talking about last year, it doesn’t make any sense since Hurdle was fired THIS year with a very poor record when the good players on your list (Hawpe, Barmes & Tulowitzki) were healthy.

by Wizard Imp on Sep 15, 2009 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions

Hate to break it to you...

aside from being wrong on the Rockies things…You also got one Dave Duncan “project” wrong. Adam Wainwright had a grand total of TWO relief appearances in the minor leagues. Duncan didn’t make him from a reliever to a starter. He pitched in relief in 2006 because the Cardinals had bullpen issues.

by Thunder on Sep 16, 2009 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions