Pirates Lose, Pirates Lose, Pirates Lose

by Charlie Wilmoth on Sep 24, 2009 4:16 PM EDT

I've got nothing. There were about three people there, thanks in part to the G-20 summit. I know Lastings Milledge homered in this game, and he's probably about the last player I'd accuse of phoning in this last month or so, but when he grounded into a double play with no outs in the ninth against Francisco Cordero, who couldn't have found the strike zone if it smacked him in the face, I had to hold my head and chuckle at the absurdity, especially when I realized that the next batter was the great Brandon Moss.

I wonder what we'll think about this last month or so in half a year. I suspect it will be a blip on the radar, that in April the Bucs will return to their usual brand of mediocre play. I also supported, and continue to support, a lot of the moves that led to this roster being constructed the way it is--they were intelligent, future-oriented moves that should improve the Pirates' chances of eventually contending. But wow, this just feels like the end of baseball as we know it right now. The broadcast of this game was and "MLB.tv exclusive," presumably because no one else cared. PNC Park has this bizarre, post-apocalyptic feel, like an institution soldiering on even after 95% of the world's population has been eaten by killer ants, or something. It's really just an amplification of the way PNC usually feels in September, but it's amazingly intense this year.

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Pirates are going to go 20 years without a winning record

Why do you idiots in PIttsburgh continue to go to the Pirates games? Don’t you know that when you stop going, the management will finally get the message when your money is not buring a hole in their pockets any more and either sell this losing bunch of mud suckers or get some REAL players.

by Michael3 on Sep 24, 2009 5:52 PM EDT reply actions

who you callin idiots asshole?

at least Pittsburgh has a team. If it wasn’t for McClathy there wouldn’t be a Pittsburgh Pirate team anywhere.

Do yourself a favor and get the fuk over to the PBC Blog where people like Nutting Hostage, Demery44, and the rest of the lunatics will welcome you with open arms.

My personal message to you is get over yourself and fuk off ccksucka.

by BadAndy on Sep 24, 2009 6:13 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions

Thanks for joining BD.

Now crawl back where you came from, and when you have something intelligent to offer, post it up on the PBC Blog. They love the “boycott / don’t give ’em your money” bullshit without regard to the fact that most of the money comes from somewhere else.

Free your ass and your mind will follow.

by cocktailsfor2 on Sep 24, 2009 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions

Gah.

I can’t believe I just did exactly what the troll wanted.

Free your ass and your mind will follow.

by cocktailsfor2 on Sep 24, 2009 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions

Hmm...

Otto: It’s about a dude who drives a school bus by day, but by night, fights vampires in a post-apocalyptic war zone!

Or maybe Otto just meant he fights them at PNC Park in September, 2009?

by IAPiratesFan on Sep 24, 2009 6:04 PM EDT reply actions

in April the Bucs will return to their usual brand of mediocre play

Is there actually some basis for this optimism? I know the players are almost uniformly young and therefore projectable to improve, but even if every starter on the team improves 10%… this is still a terrible team. There are 3 positions where I can’t imagine any of the current options turning into even average ML hitters. And only 1 or 2 where we could hope for semi-impressive play. There’s just not enough hitting.

Since July 1, this team has scored 254 runs, against 392 allowed (and July was a relatively good, 90/120 month); Pythagorean records aren’t reliable at extremes, but that’s a sub-.300 rate, for a ~115 loss season. It’s not as if the last month has been a fluke of endless 5-4 losses.

And of course there’s not much MiL help arriving next year, either – Tabata and PA would both have to knock the cover off the ball to arrive even at mid-season.

Sigh. Maybe something will change. I just don’t know what.

by JRoth95 on Sep 24, 2009 6:22 PM EDT reply actions

115-loss seasons are totally abnormal. Even granting that the Pirates are currently extremely bad, what we’re seeing now is just not normal and can’t be treated as a default state. That’s the basis for the “optimism.”

by Charlie Wilmoth on Sep 24, 2009 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions

Cheer up

It’s always darkest before the dawn.

by bolton on Sep 24, 2009 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions

No.

It’s always darkest just before it goes pitch black.

by IAPiratesFan on Sep 24, 2009 9:26 PM EDT up reply actions

Technically...

…it’s always darkest when it IS pitch black.

by Vlad on Sep 25, 2009 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions

Yeah...

My college roommate had a poster that said that. It always made me think of the Pirates.

by IAPiratesFan on Sep 25, 2009 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions

Hi Charlie

I like your optimisim but it seems the last 2 years we totally tanked in Sept. I am afaid it may carry over to an entire season. Also are we hoping the best thing that happens next year is avoiding 100 losses

by eyeofhorus777 on Sep 24, 2009 7:41 PM EDT reply actions

Hi,

It’s not “optimism,” any more than than saying the Pirates will not win 85 games next year is “pessimism.” People are suggesting the Pirates are going to do something historic. I’m saying that predicting historically unlikely outcomes, even possible ones, is a fool’s errand. I agree that they’re terrible and I think if you want to predict 100 losses next year, that’s totally reasonable.

by Charlie Wilmoth on Sep 24, 2009 7:46 PM EDT up reply actions

I think with three good pitches and Morton maybe improving we should avoid 100 losses in theory but aftering seeing this team in Sept its hard to be optomistic

by eyeofhorus777 on Sep 24, 2009 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions

Mostly what worries me is that the pitching hasn’t been terrible this year – it could improve significantly without gaining us that many wins. For awhile the bullpen was killing us, and certainly Hart and (mostly) Morton have been poor, but mostly what’s striking is how rarely this team has scored more than a couple runs – for August and September we’re averaging just over 3 runs/game. We could have a staff ERA of 4.00 and still be a 90 loss team. And we won’t have an ERA of 4.

I understand Charlie’s point about the unlikelihood of 115 losses – and for the record, I’m not actually predicting that, just pointing out that the recent futility isn’t a statistical fluke – but unlikely things do happen. It’s hard to look at the specific players on the roster and see where a .050 – .100 increase in winning percentage will come from.

by JRoth95 on Sep 24, 2009 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions

There's more than one kind of statistical fluke.

You’re saying that the pyth ratio isn’t crazy, which is true. But that doesn’t mean that the team’s August/September performances are an accurate representation of their true talent level.

by Vlad on Sep 25, 2009 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions

Right, but there’s no one that you can point to and say, he’s flukily underperforming. Last spring, you could see a lot of what was ailing the team – Jack had that calf injury and his replacements were abysmal, Morris was washed up, Gorzo was en route to a satanic season, and the defense as a whole struggled. But I don’t see anything going on now that will obviously right itself next year – Cedeno has a track record, DYoung doesn’t figure to turn into Ryne Sandburg, Pearce and Moss appear to have played themselves out of starting…. As someone said recently, the biggest outlier on the team is Jones, and he’s due to get worse. I guess the exception to all that is Doumit, who I expect will be much, much better next year. But he’s only one guy, and I don’t actually think his max output is that great – a nice 5-6 hitter, not a 3-4 guy (which is how he figures on the 2010 team).

You end up needing at least 3 guys to take it to the next level just for us to be a league-average offense – what are the odds of that?

by JRoth95 on Sep 25, 2009 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions

Well, you could point to Young, for one.

I think he’s overmatched as a regular, but he’s hitting .083/.167/.117 over the last 28 days (66 PA). Even if you don’t like him as a 2B going forward, you have to think he’s been playing below his abilities lately. Similarly, Cutch is at .230/.322/.370 over the same time frame. And Pearce is at .130/.259/.239. And Vazquez was at .189/.286/.243, before he got hurt. And Walker’s .182/.270/.182 since his callup. Etc. Even if you aren’t believers in any of those guys going forward, it’d be surprising if they didn’t move at least a little closer to their career norms in the future.

Sometimes, everybody just goes cold at the same time. It sucks, but it doesn’t mean that they’ll all stay cold forever.

by Vlad on Sep 25, 2009 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions

WTF? How long have you had this thinking disorder?

I suggest you wish in one hand, and $hit in the other one, and see which one gets full first. And while you’re out on this fools errand, bring back some beer and Doritos, OK? Now, get goin’.

by dougalmac on Sep 25, 2009 3:06 AM EDT up reply actions

Wait...what?

Point?

by Slick1 on Sep 25, 2009 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions

Since the best player on the team right now is an excellent candidate for regression in ‘10, some of these lil’ Buccaneers are going to have to take pretty large steps forward if they want out of triple digit losses. I’m optimistic enough to see 90-99. Something will happen. Something must happen, right?

???

by Adam Reynolds on Sep 24, 2009 8:48 PM EDT reply actions

Pathetic team

No offense, but the bloggers here seem to think they are intelectually superior to everyone as they over analyze the worst team / management in all of baseball. To the outside world, it comes off as pretty pathetic. This team will continue to stink for years to come, period.

by ohiobuc on Sep 24, 2009 9:20 PM EDT reply actions

I'll take one for the team here, cocktails. Ahem ...

Thanks for joining BD. Now crawl back where you came from, and when you have something intelligent to offer, post it up on the PBC Blog.

by bucdaddy on Sep 24, 2009 9:25 PM EDT up reply actions

Zombie baseball!

Now I’m interested, and just in time for “Zombieland.”

by bucdaddy on Sep 24, 2009 9:25 PM EDT reply actions

I amazes me

that people want to come here and kick the dog. How bad does your life have to be to come to a Pirates blog and say they stink. Yeah we know, feel better?

by eyeofhorus777 on Sep 24, 2009 10:59 PM EDT reply actions

It

by eyeofhorus777 on Sep 24, 2009 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions

We (including myself) would be making many more posts if the team performed a lot better.

by Adam Reynolds on Sep 24, 2009 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions

OK

Go away until then…

by Slizeezyc on Sep 25, 2009 12:04 AM EDT up reply actions

Right.

I don’t know if I’d post more. I don’t comment on the Steelers and Penguins blogs much because I really have nothing to talk about (at least as far as the way those teams are run). I feel a need to keep an eye on the Pirates because of the way their management teams the past two decades have run this team in to the ground. I don’t know if Neal Huntington is the man to fix this gigantic mess, but it’s best to be knowledgeable about such things and this blog is helpful, thanks mostly to Charlie and WTM.

by IAPiratesFan on Sep 25, 2009 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions

HEY, "WE'RE BUILDING TOWARD THE FUTURE" IDIOTS! IT"S NOT WORKING!

“I also supported, and continue to support, a lot of the moves that led to this roster being constructed the way it is—they were intelligent, future-oriented moves that should improve the Pirates’ chances of eventually contending.”

This incredible kind of stupidity is what makes me want to puke. “If you keep doing what you’ve always done, you’re gonna get what you’ve always got!” Every year, trades of good players out, “hopefuls” in. 17 losing seasons. Nuttings must go. Huntington must go. Russell must go. Find an owner absolutely dedicated to making the Pirates a winner. Then, and ONLY THEN, THINGS WILL CHANGE!

by dougalmac on Sep 25, 2009 2:55 AM EDT reply actions

You’re giving Steelers fans a bad name. Go away and change your avatar to a Cowboys or Yankees emblem.

charity standing orders

by BadMaafala on Sep 25, 2009 9:18 AM EDT up reply actions

Your post would make more sense...

…if they’d ever bothered to actually rebuild before this year. Since they haven’t, they aren’t “doing what they’ve always done”, and there’s no reason to predict the same results.

by Vlad on Sep 25, 2009 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions

Is it Yahoo!

that brings in these idiots? I guess I understand their frustration, but it would take only a cursory reading of the posts here to see that everyone is frustrated wit the losing. But, there is hope and the reasons for this hope are explained here. Look Yahoo people, if you disagree with the opinions offered here, do so with stats and reason. The Buc’s are two years into rebuilding from what had been a wasteland for 15 years. It will take time to rebuild. If you only look at wins on the MLB field, then, yes it does not appear to be working. But, wins are the final result. The PBC had a rotten foundation – Littlefield and fans like dougalmac want to build keep building on a rotten foundation. It may look like they are doing something, but any success will be limitted and unsustainable. The current team is just a temporary trailer plopped down on a lot while the foundation is being rebuilt. Your frustration with the Buc’s still needs to be pointed towards Littlefield and his predecessors. While I don’t agree with everything Huntington has done, He’s shown that he is thinking the right way.

by uneasy rider on Sep 25, 2009 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions