Charlie Morton, Ryan Doumit, Jeff Karstens Help Bucs Sweep Doubleheader
All of a sudden it seems like the Pirates have decided that losing 100 games wouldn't be so good after all. The Bucs defeated the Cubs twice today on the strength of strong starting pitching from Charlie Morton in the afternoon and Jeff Karstens in the evening. Pat has a good account of Morton's start, which involved a complete-game shutout, four hits and eight strikeouts, and essentially it seems like Morton took a little more than usual off his fastball and thus got more of them over the plate. Morton finished the year very well, knocking almost an entire run off his ERA in his last three starts.
In Karstens' starts I'm always watching from between my fingers, hoping that all the long fly balls he gives up stay in the park. That's a pretty scary proposition in Wrigley, but tonight, at least, it worked. Donald Veal came on in relief of Karstens and walked two batters in a third of an inning. Fun fact: Did you know Veal has a 2.15 WHIP? 2.15!
Ryan Doumit, meanwhile, went nuts, with a single and two doubles, and a towering homer to right in his final at bat. His name wasn't quite Andy LaRoche territory, but it wasn't far off either.
* * *
I just had an article about the Pirates' streak of seventeen straight losing seasons published at Failure Magazine. Yes, it's an e-zine about failure.
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Good day for the Bucs.
I’m glad to see that they have phoned in the rest of the season.
Nice article Charlie. Very well done.
by Slick1 on Sep 30, 2009 11:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
+1
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Oct 1, 2009 12:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Man - I am So Easy
We start playing better, get better pitching, performances from Andy and Doumit, along with steady play from Cutch and Milledge, and I’m ready and optimistic for next year.
About 139 days until pitchers and catchers report
by God Loves on Oct 1, 2009 7:31 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
So, I started reading this blog early in the season
And the other day, I went through the archives, mostly interested in seeing immediate reactions to NH’s trades, and Littlefield’s various blunders, and came across the Worst GM tournament. I enjoyed it thoroughly. Any thought to giving it another run this offseason? Maybe there hasn’t been enough action to make it worthwhile again, but it made for great reading.
Didn’t really know where to post this . . . didn’t seem important enough to make a fanpost about it.
by biggyv on Oct 1, 2009 12:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Thanks. I really liked doing the Worst GM tourney and had a great time writing it. I’ve thought, at various points, about reviving it or doing a Best GM tourney, but I got a lot of comments from readers that were like, “Bah, this is so negative. Why are we doing this?” Maybe I’ll do it again at some point.
by Charlie on Oct 1, 2009 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know how little September games mean ...
But I’m convinced the team isn’t that far away. It needs to stabilize the bullpen. Milledge neats to improve, more power, better fundamentals on defense. They need a middle of the order bat for right field.
At the same time, I think Alvarez is coming up in July. Put his bat in there with Jones, Dommit, Milledge, LaRoche, and you are much improved.
The Pirates could be a .500 team next year if things break right and they make some solid offseason moves.
by Bernie6666 on Oct 1, 2009 12:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Not enough exceptional talent, and too much marginal talent. Barring a huge breakout from Milledge, Cutch is the only position player who’d be a top player for any team in baseball. Beyond him, the most talented guys are nice players – maybe the 3rd or 4th best on a good team. And beyond that, the middle infield looks marginal at best. Cedeno looks like maybe a bit more than we thought we were getting, but he still tops out at not much more than an acceptable piece. LaRoche, of course, has to break out just to go from marginal to solid, let alone exceptional.
I’m not trying to rain on any parades; I’m trying to keep an even keel and recognize that there just isn’t that much aggregate talent on the field (I do think that the rotation could very well achieve mediocrity next year).
by JRoth95 on Oct 1, 2009 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the bullpen is the biggest issue, for sure
I wouldn’t give up on Capps altogether, but Hanrahan needs to get a legit chance to close in spring training.
The offense is still lacking, though. Just not enough power, although Alvarez would help. A 2B is needed; I’m OK with Cedeno at SS, I think, and the 1B situation needs to be resolved if Jones is in RF.
The top 4 spots on the rotation seem set (Duke, Maholm, Ohlendorf, Morton), and there should be a decent competition for the 5th spot. Kind of like recent years, except the guys competing (McCutchen, Lincoln, maybe Hart) are better than the Karstens/Vasquez/JVB/Dumatrait types of players that have competed for the back end in recent years.
by biggyv on Oct 1, 2009 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice piece, Charlie
A well-written, balanced summary of the streak. Since there’s no comments there, I just want to bring up a few things here:
- Has the Wells-Howard offer ever been confirmed? I thought it was either a (real but unconfirmed) rumor or just a very preliminary, exploratory offer. Or am I thinking of some other alleged deal with Benson?
- Is “mediocre” really fair to KYoung from the vantage point of 1999? “Sure to decline” certainly, but the guy was in the midst of a 3 year run of OPSing .867, .809, .909 while playing solid defense (although that was also in decline, due to knees) and hitting a HR every 21 ABs. A quick scan of retrosheet suggests to me that he was basically a second tier 1B in those years – behind the Delgados and Bagwells and (obvs) McGwires, but better than most of the 1Bs in the league (he compares favorably with Tino Martinez and Andres Galarraga, frex). Maybe not a $6M man (certainly not a 4 year man at that age), but better than mediocre.
- Taking out DL’s first and last drafts, his first rounds I’d call pretty respectable – 2 guys who are already solid MLers, another who looks very promising for next year, and a guy who looks like a near miss (as opposed to a washout). The sin was in the later rounds, not the first.
- But OK, seriously, wtf was wrong with DL? I’ve asked this a few times around here lately, and it doesn’t seem like anyone has a good answer. I mean, it’s obvious he was just desperately trying to save his job his last few years, but that doesn’t explain his first 2-3 years. I guess my theory is that he was irrationally self-serving, in that he felt that if he could wrestle the Bucs to .500 within his first 2-3 years, he’d basically be set for life – always be in the mix for new GM jobs, never unemployed, etc. With that very narrow goal, he felt free to ignore all of these other aspects. Furthermore, as I’ve noted in the past, he/they suffered from some bad luck in those years – the literally endless parade of promising pitchers getting hurt after strong rookie seasons, the Ramirez trade, and the resolute refusal of any MiLer to flukily succeed (Jorge Posada was a 24th rounder – shit like that happens, but it hasn’t for the Pirates, with only a couple very mild exceptions). Point being, with average luck, DL’s fiendish plan might well have succeeded. Perhaps God wanted to make sure he’d fail.
by JRoth95 on Oct 1, 2009 2:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think you pretty much nailed it with DL
His tenure doesn’t fall within the bounds of rationality.
by biggyv on Oct 1, 2009 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A bit more on 2004
I had a long parenthetical addition to the above comment, but I wanted to spell out in more detail how I think DL was a bit unlucky in not fielding a .500 team at least once:
DL’s ‘04 team, with Aramis still in place and Well and Benson living up to their talent, would very likely have won 82 (or more). The lineup is surprisingly strong, with Kendall (OPS .789), JWilson (.794), CWilson (.853), and JBay (.908), plus a half season of DWard at a non-embarrassing, if non-impressive, .779. Add ARam (.951) to that, and it’s a legit ML lineup, even with holes at 2B and CF.
Their worst pitcher that year was Vogelsong (which is squarely on DL’s shoulders, although the Giants thought he was a top prospect too), but both Wells and Benson had ERAs well into the 4s. With Ollie having his great season, if Benson and Wells had simply pitched a bit better – say, half a run apiece of ERA – then it makes a big difference. And that’s not just wishing that Player X would be better – both of those guys had the talent and history to be sub-4 pitchers.
Meanwhile, 3B was an epic falloff from ARam. Incredibly, Aramis OPS+ was 138 that year; Chris Stynes was 46 (!) and Wigginton was 68. In terms of runs created, ARam was +33 on the year, while Stynes and Ty combined for -13 (Stynes had better D, Ty did not). That alone closes the RA/RS gap from 64 to 18 (at which point better pitching from the guys mentioned above puts them solidly into .500 territory).
Of course you can always wish for things and imagine better outcomes. There were lots of things wrong with that team that were under DL’s control – that was the Year of Mondesi and Randall Simon, plus the biggest no-talent on the field (Stynes aside) was Vogelsong, with an incredible 6.50 ERA in 31 starts. My point is simply that the shortfall from these 3 players, none of which can be put on DL’s shoulders, was pretty much the difference between a winning and a losing team.
by JRoth95 on Oct 1, 2009 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Another point on DL
It seemed he was always juggling priorities, trying to rebuild the team at the same time he was trying to win now. He wound up doing neither very well.
by gorillagogo on Oct 1, 2009 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's worth remembering that in 2004...
…Wilson only ended up with the RF job through happenstance. DL had signed Raul Mondesi for the position, but Mondesi jumped the team in mid-season and the roster was shallow enough that Wilson was the only other option.
Similarly, when evaluating offense/defense from 2004, you need to remember that that particular year was basically the peak of the offensive explosion. Ward’s .780 OPS was actually worse than that of a league-average batter.
Littlefield inherited some star-level talents (Giles, Kendall, and Ramirez), and if he’d been able to find competent filler to paste around them, he would’ve easily broken .500. He never did, though.
by Vlad on Oct 1, 2009 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, but an .853 “only other option” isn’t exactly disastrous. And certainly what Mondesi did was rather unpredictable (not that he was a great choice anyway, but I doubt that even London bookies have a line for “Odds that player will pretend to retire for personal reasons in order to escape contract.”).
That said, I’d forgotten that offense was still so inflated in ‘04; I tried to take it into account when I was looking up KYoung’s numbers, but treated ‘04 as (relatively) normal. Nonetheless, it’s the RA/RS that I’m mostly looking at – a single position represented 2/3 of the difference between .500 and .450.
by JRoth95 on Oct 1, 2009 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You can argue that Mondesi leaving was unexpected...
…but you can’t really argue that Mondesi being a subpar option was a surprise. He was a 33-year-old with a notoriously poor work ethic and offensive numbers that were trending down, and he waited until the last possible minute to sign with us because he hated the idea of playing in Pittsburgh. It didn’t take a genius to know that it wasn’t going to work out.
Signing a guy like that expressly for the purpose of blocking a guy like Craig Wilson was boneheadeness of the first order, and a textbook example of the way DL failed to pad out the remainder of the roster.
by Vlad on Oct 1, 2009 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, yeah
I’d meant to say in my previous comment that Mondesi was a bad signing even if he started 150 games for us.
What was the deal with CWilson anyway? He was a perennially “blocked” player, yet he had a tremendous 2004, and still never started anywhere. Shouldn’t a guy like that be able to stay in baseball, with chances to start?
I guess 1B/RF guys with pop are the anti-lefty SPs – if they don’t produce, big time, right away, they get shuffled off and replaced, while a crappy pitcher like Kip Wells gets chance after chance
by JRoth95 on Oct 1, 2009 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
By the time the Pirates dealt him, he had just gotten a little worse. Hitting for contact was an issue for him in the best of times—he had real trouble with breaking balls low and away—and so when he slipped a little it was hard to keep him in the big leagues. What the Pirates did to him was indefensible, though. He was very good in his first several years and a team like the Bucs really has no business part-timing a hitter like that.
by Charlie on Oct 1, 2009 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He also developed a shoulder problem...
…which really hurt his hitting. A shame. He was a hell of a player at his best, and fun to watch.
SPs get extra chances compared to 1Bs, because the pool of potentially reasonable replacements is so much smaller for the former than the latter.
by Vlad on Oct 1, 2009 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A couple of things -
Yes, the Wells-for-Howard deal was reported by several sources at the time and later confirmed by DK. As far as I know, Benson-for-Howard was never confirmed, although that’s the one that people always seem to bring up.
I do think it’s fair to say that Young was mediocre. The Bucs were signing him pretty much at his peak, the only time in his career when he WASN’T mediocre—but then, that’s why you don’t buy high. You’re right that at the time of the contract, he wasn’t, but it was pretty predictable even then that he’d be mediocre (or worse, as it turned out) through the life of the contract.
The editor changed my wording in the sentence about DL’s first-round draft picks. I said they were “at least a mixed bag” or something like that—it wasn’t my intention to criticize them.
by Charlie on Oct 1, 2009 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dejan wrote an article...
…claiming that Benson-for-Howard was a legit offer: .
The same article also says that Wells-for-Howard was never offered.
by Vlad on Oct 1, 2009 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ugh. I always criticize people for getting that backward, and then I got it backward.
by Charlie on Oct 1, 2009 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for responding, Charlie. I take your point about KY – the contract didn’t make any sense for a player who projected to be mediocre over the life of it. I’ve just always felt that KY never got any respect for a peak that was brief, but during which he was decidedly above mediocre (as I say, second tier – not an All-Star, but a guy who would start for most teams that didn’t actually have an All-Star 1B).
by JRoth95 on Oct 1, 2009 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, I’m sure he’s crying all the way to the bank. :) He would be much more fondly remembered if it weren’t for that contract.
by Charlie on Oct 1, 2009 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He would be much more fondly remembered if it weren’t for that contract.
Absolutely. Even though the year after he signed was the best of his career. If he’s had even 1 more league—average year it wouldn’t have been such a farce.
I wonder how much was Astroturf vs. talent level. His ISO in his 3 good seasons were .234, .211, and .224 (plus .227 as a part-timer in KC in ‘96), which indicates the guy wasn’t a total fluke. But how can you play baseball with the knees of a 40-y.o. running back?
Oh well.
by JRoth95 on Oct 1, 2009 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But OK, seriously, wtf was wrong with DL? I’ve asked this a few times around here lately, and it doesn’t seem like anyone has a good answer.
I don’t think there’s any one thing you could cite, other than perhaps the Peter Principle. But I do think he had a number of recognizable deficiencies.
For starters, he set the team back with his insistence on drafting first round pitchers for almost his entire tenure. I understand the desire to build the team through pitching but young pitchers are the least likely to succeed. By exclusively drafting pitchers in the first round, DL was pursuing the riskiest strategy possible. Is it any surprise that the majority of these guys didn’t succeed? Of course not. The overwhelming majority of all young pitchers don’t succeed. The current regime has a far better strategy — grab a position player in the first round then draft a ton of high risk high reward arms later. Better to have quantity than to pin your hopes on that one guy.
Similarly, DL got lucky one year by dumpster diving the free agent market, getting Sanders. Stairs, Lofton and Suppan. This seemed to influence his decision-making the remainder of his tenure, as every year he brought in a Stynes or Mondesi or Burnitz. A smarter GM would have realized he was unlikely to catch lightning in a bottle twice, and signed some of these guys to multi-year deals. It really should have been the Pirates that got a few productive years out of Sanders and Suppan instead of the Cardinals, if you ask me.
DL also preferred aggressive hitters. There’s a reason the Pirates as a team were always at the bottom of the league each year in walks and OBP. They pursued guys who swung early and often, and they didn’t seem to emphasize strike zone discipline at the minor league level.
I could go on, but the common thread, to me, is that DL didn’t just make poor decisions, it seemed his philosophy on how to build a team ensured that he would continue to make one poor decision after another.
by gorillagogo on Oct 1, 2009 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Among other points you made here,
It really should have been the Pirates that got a few productive years out of Sanders and Suppan instead of the Cardinals, if you ask me.
Nail + head = you!
,,,and Lofton too, IMO. Throwing him in as part of the ARam deal was, perhaps, DL’s most boneheaded move.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Oct 1, 2009 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
DL and the draft:
The 2001 draft was actually more productive than it looks. That was Mickey White’s last one with the team, and he selected Jeremy Guthrie and Stephen Drew in the understanding that we’d be able to sign them to above-slot deals, only to have DL slash the draft budget after taking over. Even so, that draft produced a good SP (Duke), four hitters strong enough to start in the majors for at least a year or two (Jeff Keppinger, Chris Duffy, Chris Shelton, and Rajai Davis), and a solid young reliever (Jon Albaladejo).
The Creech drafts were terrible, for the reason you note: No depth whatsoever. Once you got past the first couple of rounds, you could pretty much kiss off your chance at getting even organizational players for AA/AAA. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if McCutchen is the only significant player to come out of our 2005, for example (Pearce, Jeff Sues, and Brent Lillibridge are the only other real options).
by Vlad on Oct 1, 2009 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
2004 is just as bad. And ‘07 might well turn out to be that bad if Latimore doesn’t develop. And Moskos was the team’s first-round pick that year.
by Charlie on Oct 1, 2009 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, 2004 looks pretty grim.
I still wonder why we cut Eric Ridener so quickly. I mean, I’ve heard that he was kind of a nut, but you’d think that a live arm and 10+ K/9 would make up for that particular sin.
by Vlad on Oct 1, 2009 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"He was a blank-faced dullard..."
Where does Littlefield work now ? Curious who would have been crazy enough to hire him …
....You'll be able to spit nails, kid. You're gonna eat lightning and you're gonna crap thunder....
by chodan11 on Oct 1, 2009 3:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
He's with the Cubs
Special assistant or something?
by biggyv on Oct 1, 2009 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think he’s a scout for them. I remember a commenter here encountered him at a minor league game.
I made most of my life decisions at a Foghat concert... I stand by them.
by Chester J Lampwick on Oct 1, 2009 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Correct:
He’s an advance scout. Which is a pretty big fall for a former GM – even semi-competent ones are usually able to catch on as Special Assistants.
by Vlad on Oct 1, 2009 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And yet it’s still more than he deserves.
Seriously.
by JRoth95 on Oct 1, 2009 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I figure it's payback...
…for Ramirez. His thirty pieces of silver, if you will.
by Vlad on Oct 1, 2009 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Question
Why couldn’t we get more for ARam? I mean, I understand that DL was in a weak, terrible position. But were the Cubs the only team in baseball willing to offer 2 terrible players for a solid veteran CF and a kid 3B on a great contract and with enormous potential? Is that on DL’s shoulders, or were there other circumstances I can’t recall?
by JRoth95 on Oct 1, 2009 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My understanding is that the Cubs knew that DL had to deal a large contract and were the only team willing to pick up that much extra cash on short notice.
I also thought there was more to the deal than just management forcing DL’s hand. Specifically, I thought the team’s debt to earnings ratio was too high, and that they were in violation of some MLB rules.
Purely speculating here, but I wonder if management hoped the team would win more games and attendance would spike to get them where they needed to be financially, and in a worst case scenario they’d dump Benson’s contract. Unfortunately the team underperformed and Benson got hurt, so the next movable contract was A-Ram’s.
by gorillagogo on Oct 1, 2009 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's my understanding...
…that when Bud started enforcing the rules on debt-to-equity ratios for ownership groups, the Pirates were in a position where they had a very limited amount of time to dump payroll and get into compliance, or else the franchise would go into receivership or something like that.
DL had been trying to flip Benson, but his arm was hurt and the deal fell through, and since he’d left himself with no time, he basically just had to hand Ramirez over to the first team that would agree to take him in order to meet the deadline. It didn’t help that the team had nuked Ramirez’s trade value the year before, by forcing him to play hurt all season (putting up a 72 OPS+ that was still probably better than the available alternatives).
by Vlad on Oct 1, 2009 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

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