Neil Walker In Limbo
by Charlie Wilmoth on Jan 10, 2010 5:35 PM EST
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PrintIt's strange that the Pirates haven't told Neil Walker where he's going to play next year. Walker looks very unlikely to make the big-league team, and he'll be blocked at third at Indianapolis by Pedro Alvarez. The International League is a DH league, but Walker has defensive value, so it doesn't make much sense to play him there. Alvarez really shouldn't DH, either, since his development should be Indianapolis' top priority.
Indianapolis won't be loaded with prospects at the other positions Walker might conceivably play. Erik Kratz is slated to catch; he'd probably be a capable MLB backup at this point, but he's too old to be a prospect. There's a mess of semi-interesting players (Shelby Ford, Brian Friday, Jim Negrych) who might play second, but no one worth worrying about too much. Jose Tabata will likely begin the year at one of the outfield positions, and Gorkys Hernandez might conceivably take another one, but that leaves a third spot open for Walker if the Pirates wanted to use him there.
So what's going on here? Why hasn't Walker received instructions to start work at another position? One possibility is that a trade is in the works, but that seems unlikely, since it's hard to imagine who would give up something interesting for Walker right now. Another is that the Pirates have given up on Walker, and would rather play guys like Kratz, Friday and outfielder Jon Van Every than give him a place to play. That too seems unlikely--even I would make sure Walker has a place to play at Indianapolis, and I'm far from his biggest fan.
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The most sensible possibility...
…would seem to me to be that Walker’s 2010 position is conditional, depending on a move that hasn’t happened yet, and might not. That would explain why they might not have told him, if they aren’t sure themselves.
by Vlad on Jan 10, 2010 5:55 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Maybe..
The A’s have an interest in Walker, now that the asking price for LaRoche seems too high for them. Beane loves defense, and is pretty savvy when it comes to buying low. Now, it doesn’t get much lower than Walker in terms of capable hitting MLB third basemen, but if the A’s have a similar logjam of players at a different position, it might be a workable trade for both sides. The first thing I thought of when I heard the A’s were interested in LaRoche was that they’d have a much better and MUCH cheaper shot at getting Walker..
Waiting...
to see what (if any) FA’s the Pirates get signed in the next few weeks perhaps?? Or a trade in the works?? I doubt they’d send Walker to Altoona for 2 months to play 3rd until Pedro shows whether he can move up to the big team…but I guess it’s not out of the equation.
OT: Chapman signs 5yr/30 million to Reds
Thoughts?
by BadAndy on Jan 10, 2010 6:07 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Seems like a good deal for the Reds. The money is backloaded and spread over 10 years so they’re only paying him $1M this year. Now, if they can just get rid of Dusty…
Cinci Enquirer reports:The deal with left-hander Aroldis Chapman is for $25 million over five years with a player option for a sixth. His salary for 2010 will be in $1 million range.
It’s a major league deal and it’s spread out over 10 years. The first year it will be a major burden on the big league budget is 2014.
Of course newspapers have been wrong before.
It’s possible that Shelby Ford starts in AA. Negrych as DH and Bixler playing UTIL at Indy while Walker tries his hand at second base until Alvarez is promoted or moved to first.
by RDV across the sea on Jan 10, 2010 6:13 PM EST reply actions
Walker at 2b
Give Walker the full time second base job at Indy next year, and see what he can do with it. Then once Alvarez takes over the thirdbase job in Pittsburgh full time; Walker, and Laroche can battle over the second base job in Pittsburgh. Whoever loses the job we can trade, and they will have added value due to learning another position…
Walker will not be playing 2B
in PGH. Not with LaRoche & Iwamura there.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Jan 10, 2010 7:11 PM EST up reply actions
I disagree
Come this time next year, either LaRoche or Iwamura will be gone. Maybe both of them. I think 2B makes the most sense for Walker.
I still really wonder about the decision to move Walker from catcher where is value figured to be highest – not unlike the concern most of us have with the occassional rumor about moving Doumit out from behind the plate, and Walker isn’t close to Doumit offensively at this point.
Good day.
Or defensively...
It is shame he was moved in the 1st place but he has missed so many innings of development I don’t think he will ever be moved back behind the plate.
That would bewALKER'S THIRD OR FOURTH POSITION CHANGE.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Jan 12, 2010 8:17 AM EST up reply actions
Gah.
“That would be Walker’s third or fourth position change.”
I just don’t see it happening.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Jan 12, 2010 8:18 AM EST up reply actions
i'd like to see him at C
he’s definitely still young enough to be considered a prospect, and his bat would play much better if he’s behind the plate.
by McGreal on Jan 10, 2010 7:52 PM EST via mobile reply actions
He would be an marinal prospect at his age if it were not for the fact the he was drafted out of high school and should be at his point of maturation right now; if not a couple years ago. Moving him back to a harder defensive position will not add to his completely offensive offensive stats. There is a reason they moved him away from being a catcher. As I see it, his real problem might just be his own mind….. as he thinks he should be in the major leagues, even though he clearly is just not good enough. The best thing for the Pirates would be to trade him to the Astros or the Mets….hopefully for an actual rookie league level prospect…. assuming one or the other has any prospects left, after being run worse than Dave Littlebrain, ran the Buccos. Paul
"I choose to gamble with my life
Twice the risk, four times the prize
Nothing knocks me over"
by lighthouse913 on Jan 11, 2010 3:02 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I've asked about this before
His reviews as a defensive catcher were absolutely atrocious. He was a miserable catcher. Moving him from his only strength (defense) would make him borderline useless
The glare of the spotlight is harsh, and the pressure that success breeds immense. We revere our heroes, but expect much. And criticism can come as easily as praise.
His bat would play better there...
…if he could handle the position. Which he can’t, unfortunately. Which is, in turn, why he was moved away from there in the first place.
The reportage at the time
was that NW was moved form C due to the (ahem) logjam created by Ronny Paulino + Doumit. I’m not saying he was a solid defensive C; I’m saying that it’s revisionist to claim that his defense was the primary (or public) reason for the move.
That said, it seems way to late to move him back to C. He adds a tiny bit of value as a potential emergency C, but he won’t be reaching MLB behind the plate.
That may have been DL's motivation...
…but there was a lot of ink spilled the year before about how his defense wasn’t progressing. He caught in the AFL of the year when he was moved, for example, and one anonymous scout there was quoted (in one of Robothal’s roundups) as saying that Walker was the worst defensive catcher he’d ever seen.
Walker himself also said that the toll of catching made him pay less attention to hitting. I agree that the possibility he ends up catching is remote.
by Charlie Wilmoth on Jan 11, 2010 5:14 PM EST up reply actions
There are lots of examples of catchers...
…finding some extra offense once they didn’t have to worry about catching anymore. Mike Sweeney, Jayson Werth, etc.
well that sucks...
i was also under the impression that he was moved b/c of a ‘logjam’ situation. if he can’t handle the C position, i guess my vote would be to make him a utility guy and play him wherever we have an opening.
by McGreal on Jan 11, 2010 11:00 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
He isn't an everyday guy...
He has plenty of value but it’s probably as a very athletic super-utility guy who could fill in well in a pinch. He just needs to get lots of reps all over the field. And I’m sure he will.
by my dixie wrecked on Jan 10, 2010 10:07 PM EST reply actions
If he hits well enough in Indianapolis (as in, a huge improvement to major league level), we’ll probably find a place for him. The Bucs lineup has some upside, but it’s not really filled with Longorias now. If like Milledge and Clement regress a lot, he could wind up in the OF. A trade is more likely, but maybe there is a slim chance he is useful in Pitt given the right amount of production this year.
The point
I think, is that it’s hard to see how he could possibly hit well enough in Indy if he doesn’t have a position.
Look, Walker had a huge 6 weeks to end the AAA season last year. Either he continues that, and he’s a legit prospect, or he doesn’t, and he’s toast. What’s weird about the situation is that it doesn’t, at the moment, appear that the Pirates care to find out.
How does that follow?
Just because they haven’t called a press conference to announce that he’s going to play 2B (or RF, or whatever), they don’t plan to use him at all?
Communicating with your player isn’t exactly the same as “calling a press conference.” DK has been told by NH that Pedro is expected to start at 3B for Indy starting in April, and has been told by NW that management has said nothing to him about any position other than 3B.
Look, maybe they have a plan for getting NW 500 PAs next year that they think should be a secret, even from him. But that’s a weird assumption to make, especially about an org that’s been building itself around “books” for each player and clear expectations and, yes, accountability.
As I said above...
…I don’t think it’s a secret. I just think they don’t know yet, because they’re still trying to sign FAs at several of the positions that he’s capable of playing, and he’s going to end up playing whichever of the positions isn’t filled at year’s end.
Right
And it’s also no secret that Walker’s focus is going to be on learning to hit no matter where he plays on the field – or DH. If he proves he can hit, they will find a place to put him.
by MarkInDallas on Jan 11, 2010 8:19 PM EST up reply actions
Talk of 2b?
The Pirates should have tried Walker at 2b last season. He woud serve better as a utility player than anything else. I know he doesn’t have the range, but I would also test drive him at SS as well. A player who can play all infield positions and C would serve a team with some nice flexibility. As for LaRoache, full time at second base? Remember Akinori Iwamura? He’s at second. Although, I think Iwamura will be traded mid season.
by formerdraftpick on Jan 10, 2010 11:21 PM EST reply actions
I like the SS idea
At this point, it wouldn’t hurt to get him some reps at short in ST and then in Indy to start the season, although Argenis Diaz will probably be the starter. While he’s getting infield work on the side there daily, DH him so he’s still getting regular ABs and helping to sort out whether or not his bat will play out.
After he gets comfortable there, platoon him and Diaz. The one who performs better could end up being the next SS waiting in the wings.
Granted this is purely hypothetical, but if they can’t find a spot for him and there’s no concrete SS of the future, what could it hurt?
"Straight ball I hit very much, but curveball, bats are afraid." - Pedro Cerrano
Maybe Neal will pull another Capps?
So what’s going on here? Why hasn’t Walker received instructions to start work at another position?
I would not be the least bit surprised to see Neal pull another Capps and simply release Walker at the end of spring training.
It seems to me this FO regime has never cared much for Walker.
by Nutting Hostage on Jan 11, 2010 5:43 AM EST reply actions
If anything...
…it would seem like they’ve cared a lot more than his performance to date would warrant.
I don’t think they’re going to release him outright (though a bad spring might cost him his spot on the 40-man), but I do think he’s probably not playing a prominent role in their plans at this point. Which is probably as it should be, until he shows that he can hit enough to be a corner player.
Walker's greatest contribution to the Pirates so far
has been to light a fire under Andy LaRoche. As soon as he was called up, Andy began focusing and caught fire.
by MarkInDallas on Jan 11, 2010 8:21 PM EST up reply actions
++1
"I choose to gamble with my life
Twice the risk, four times the prize
Nothing knocks me over"
by lighthouse913 on Jan 11, 2010 11:50 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Correlation...
…does not imply causation.
Who did they call up to put the fear of God into him in May, when he hit .330/.411/.457?
+1
Competition is good because it provides a fallback option but it doesn’t necessarily push one to perform better. For every person an open competition helps one focus there is another it makes nervous or has not effect on…and so on and so on. This is why I have a hard time buying that we signed Crosby in an effort keep Cedeneo focussed. If playing in major league baseball and making millions isn’t motivation enough to stay focussed a Bobby Crosby signing of all things won’t help. But it will provide us with a body to play SS, who hopefully will perform better than Cruz or Bixler would have, should Cedeneo fail to seize his opportunity.
Regardless of what impact it actually has
The FO believes in it strongly.
I’m intrigued by the idea and if it actually might pay off. I do think there is something inherent in the competition for jobs that goes beyond the promise of making more money. One of the basic tenants of psychology is that fear of loss is a greater motivator than promise of gain.
You want players who accept challenges and meet them head on. When that challenge has a face and name and is hitting the cover off the ball, you’re going to get the sleep you need instead of staying out late, and do the little things you need to do to be successful.
by MarkInDallas on Jan 12, 2010 10:41 PM EST up reply actions
Or...
…you’re going to get desperate to succeed, start tweaking your form, and totally lose your swing. Or you’re going to start taking greenies to improve your reactions, and pop positive.
Fear is a good motivator, but not all the actions it motivates you to take are going to be productive.
I just happen to agree with Vlad on this one...
I have also had Psych classes that have said that people cannot be motivated from external forces: coaches, money, etc. People can only motivate themselves. I think what you are referring too is which system is more effective for encouraging certain types of behavior: punishment vs. reward. And yes you are correct that the fear of loss has a bigger impact in terms of punishment/reward so losing that starting job (and future earnings) has a stronger effect discouraging actions that causes a player to fail (not working out, not eating right, not practicing , not watching tape, etc.) than a performance incentive does encouraging the opposite behavior. To you and me (the general population) the fear off losing one’s job will discourage showing up late for work better than a pay raise will for being on time. That being said, I don’t think the punishment/reward system will have any impact on “focuss.” Losing focuss is rarely a result of lack of motivation from an athelet at this level. I don’t know, maybe he has a mild form of ADHD or lacks proper concentration skills. I would have him see a sports pyschologist if his issues are only focuss. This was just a long way of saying what I said above, having other options at SS will not make Cedeneo play better and I don’t believe Walker was the reason Laroche hit better. I do agree with you that having depth is a very good thing and a key element of successful teams. They provide suitable backup plans when plan A falters.
My bad.
pq. What is there is "care" about?
My bad. I was under the mistaken impression major league teams should care about the development of their amateur draft picks. Especially former number one picks.
Thanks for straightening that out for me.
by Nutting Hostage on Jan 12, 2010 1:14 PM EST reply actions
Drafft pedigree only carries you so far.
Walker’s lack of offensive development is precisely the reason why he isn’t a bigger part of the team’s plans at this point.
He took some significant steps forward in 2007. If he’d been able to sustain that progress, he’d be in a much better place. Unfortunately, up to this point, he hasn’t.
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