Are Two Brandons in the Outfield Too Many?
The Pirates have claimed Braves outfielder Brandon Jones on waivers. My apologies to jmarter, who had this in a FanPost an hour ago, but I'd like to get my two cents in.
Jones was once a highly-regarded prospect, but he recently turned 26 and hasn't done much at AAA. Projection systems still tend to like him, probably because he doesn't have huge holes in his game (he can hit for a bit of average, has some power and controls the strike zone decently), but the same has been true for Brandon Moss. Like Moss, Jones hits lefty and doesn't really have a standout skill at the plate. Also like Moss, Jones is supposed to be strong defensively in a corner. Jones has more experience than Moss in center, but the results haven't been particularly good.
Moss' fate already seemed to be sealed by the Ryan Church signing, but Jones' addition would seem to make it even less likely that Moss will be around much longer. It's a bit strange that the Pirates are adding a player whose skillset is so similar to Moss', but Jones was more highly regarded as a prospect than Moss was, and Moss had his chance to prove he wasn't good enough. Jones hasn't, having only received 148 at bats in the bigs spread out over the past three seasons (and actually playing reasonably well in them).
Of course, it's possible that Jones will have no impact on the big-league bench, at least not right away. The Pirates could just send Jones to AAA and hope he catches fire there. They don't have the option of doing that with Moss, who is out of options, or with Rule 5 pick John Raynor. But Jones' skillset conspicuously resembles Moss', and if I'm Moss, I'm probably concerned that that means something, whether that's being cut or traded.
Jones' acquisition fills the 40-man roster, but the Pirates are apparently waiting for confirmation from MLB before officially adding one of their more recent free agent additions, so they'll have to remove someone from the roster when that comes through. You can speculate about who that might be. Someone like reliever Anthony Claggett might be the best guess, but if I were Moss, I might be worried.
UPDATE: The Post-Gazette, linked above, now reports that Jones may not be a Pirate for long--since the Pirates were second in the waiver queue, they might have claimed him for another team who wanted him, and may now be trying to work out a deal where they send Jones and another player to that team for one guy they like better. Stay tuned.
UPDATE II: The Pirates have cleared a roster spot for Ryan Church by designating Steven Jackson for assignment. Which is a little strange, because I thought Jackson would get a shot at a bullpen job this spring, even with all the remodeling over the past week or so. Jackson isn't nearly as good as his ERA with the Pirates suggested--his K:BB ratio with the Bucs was awful, and for all the talk about him racking up groundballs, it's worth pointing out that he didn't, you know, actually really do that. But he did keep his head above water, and he strikes me as pretty clearly a better option than Claggett, who's still on the roster for some reason. Most of the other pitchers on the roster do have some reason for being there, so one wonders what the Pirates see in Claggett. The Pirates also still have Argenis Diaz and about eight trillion outfielders on the 40-man.
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Just when I think NH is outta tricks...
God Created the World Out Of Nothing, Paterno Built A National Superpower On Cow Fields...
by For The Glory 1855 on Jan 19, 2010 6:18 PM EST reply actions
this is extremely interesting
DK is reporting that a trade may be on the way, and that it doesn’t involve major league players. Also, that such a trade might include Jones (Brandon) in a 2 for 1 swap or something of the sort, to get back a better package. If I were Neil Walker, I wouldn’t buy a house in Pittsburgh… oh, wait… never mind!
Brandon Moss hit his first MLB HR in Japan.
His first for an NPB team could come as early as the 2010 season.
I really think he could be a strong everyday player in Japan.
Don’t be surprised if the Bucs sell his contract to an NPB team this offseason.
But then again, he’s only 26 and has some solid corner OF skills, so there might be another MLB team willing to give him plenty of playing time this season.
The possibility of acquiring Brandon Jones was discussed the other day on a different thread. It seems like a reasonable move heading into a spring training where we’ll have many options to man the OF spots.
Those on the 40 Man, but not on ML 25 Man
That might fit the bill -
Aguero
Uviedo
Veal
A. Diaz
N. Walker
B. Jones
G. Hernandez
I could see Veal and Brandon Jones to someone like KC or the Mets
Seems unlikely they would let go of Veal at this point.
by MarkInDallas on Jan 19, 2010 7:29 PM EST up reply actions
just a hunch
Could a Doumit trade to the Mets be in the works? Bengie did resign with the Giants today but the Mets were after him.
by BadAndy on Jan 19, 2010 7:53 PM EST via mobile reply actions
This is exactly what I was thinking. Dejan says the trade they’re working on doesn’t involve major leaguers, but I’m not sure if that’s a hunch or a fact or what. I’d be very surprised if Minaya (or whoever’s running the Mets) hasn’t called NH about Doumit today.
keep in mind
the rest of the MLB thinks all the Bucs are minor leagures… they could be discussing Cutch and Doumit…
1) IMO, the Mets have nothing we want, and
2) Why would we get rid of Doumit now?
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Jan 19, 2010 8:28 PM EST up reply actions
1. It’s Minaya, can’t hurt to listen
2. Not sure its getting rid as it might be getting back real good prospects…
Let's face it!
Doumit doesn’t buy what Huntington is selling. They broke up his drinkin crew and now he’s left only to pout. We might as well sign a servicable C (Barajas) and try to get some good grade C prospects outta him.
by BadAndy on Jan 19, 2010 9:05 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I’m not sure I agree with that after what Dejan reported Doumit as saying during mini-camp. He seemed to have a pretty good attitude.
by MarkInDallas on Jan 19, 2010 9:13 PM EST up reply actions
NH won’t trade Doumit unless he really got a good prospect or someone close to the majors. Also, to trade Doumit, he’d be at his lowest value consider his injury last year. I’d rather hold onto him and he start to hit homers and hits for average, then trade him if need be for some good solid prospects. On the other hand if somehow we’re actually keeping pace in the division (Highly unlikely at this point) I’d prefer to keep him.
Mets have nothing worth giving up Doumit for. I don’t want to give up Doumit now unless there is a kick ass shortstop coming up. I just don’t see that happening.
by MarkInDallas on Jan 19, 2010 9:11 PM EST up reply actions
Well, Fernando Martinez is getting perilously close to that point where, having been rushed and overhyped, he’s now seen as a disappointment based on a limited sample of ML appearances. It happened with Milledge and Carlos Gomez. It’s a downright spooky pattern. It looks like they’re going to go with Francouer in right field next year. I agree that F-Mart needs some more time at AAA, but he’s definitely better than Francouer. This reeks of Shawn Green over Milledge in 2007. Basically, what I’m saying is that as long as there are valuable pieces in the Mets’ system, and there are, they are in play. I’m probably setting myself up for disappointment, but I basically dream of the day when NH makes a deal with Omar Minaya.
Reese Havens...
…would be a nice fit for our needs.
by Vlad on Jan 19, 2010 10:13 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
There’s probably a <1% chance, but I’d love to add F-Mart or Mejia in a trade. With any other team the odds would be nil, but Minaya brings the impossible into play.
by thegreatchris on Jan 19, 2010 10:19 PM EST up reply actions
Which shows that the Rays are overrating him way too much.
by Adam Reynolds on Jan 19, 2010 8:41 PM EST up reply actions
LH help
Anybody know of a veteran LH reliever we might be after? Given management’s work on the bullpen, I could see them sending a couple guys from our 42 man roster to wrap things up there.
That’s a good point. But that still leaves 40 man roster issues.
by MarkInDallas on Jan 19, 2010 9:14 PM EST up reply actions
How 'Bout a 3-fer-1 trade?
Brandon Jones (the Mets need an outfielder), Jaramillo (he did well last year and the Mets are now in need of a catcher), and Jeff Clement (who they’ll use as a 1st baseman) in exchange for?
A number 3 starter? Jose Reyes? Although Vlad or Charlie schooled me in a separate post, I still have an image of the Mets farm season as underperforming, so I don’t think we want a tassle of their young players.
Off the cuff, it seems to me that the Mets are one of the few teams still trying to figure out a lot of positions.
Minaya would be fired instantly if he traded Reyes, I think. And G. Jones makes more sense than Clement for the Mets (who do not trust prospects until they overperform in small samples of MLB time). They’d want Doumit more than Jaramillo for obvious reasons. I think Ohlendorf, Doumit, G. Jones, and somebody (D. Young), who all fill needs for the Mets, could land a ton of shit. Niese, Fernando Martinez, and Havens? Havens wouldn’t need to be added to our 40-man.
I know this is unrealistic, but the funny thing is that I kind of believe it (or something like it) can happen. It’s a perfect storm: Minaya is not too savvy; the Mets have a ton of holes the Pirates could fill; the Mets are desperate; they are facing a ton of scrutiny and discontent from the fanbase for their incompetence and lack of activity this offseason.
Minaya
would will be fired instantly at some point no matter what he does unless the Mets win the World Series and the Stanley Cup. He may not even make it to Spring Training. Although I haven’t looked recently, given the Jets-mania, there was some talk that he knew about Beltran’s knee surgery and …. uh ….. forgot to tell ownership.
Actually, now that we mention that, I don’t think any trades will happen with the Mets. I think that the owners have the GM on a very, very short leash and unless it is clearly a favorable trade, it won’t be made.
by Trogluddite on Jan 19, 2010 11:13 PM EST up reply actions
very good point
It’s pretty clear that Minaya’s not really pulling the strings anymore. I’m not sure if Wilpon is any smarter. Bit boy would I love to be a fan of the team on the other side of the ill-advised desperation trade that finally gets Minaya fired.
The Mets
would have (another) PR disaster on their hands if they fired Minaya, wouldn’t they? They’d have the black community AND the Hispanic community in an uproar, especially if they replaced him with a white man. Now that wouldn’t be the first priority for me to worry about if I were the top boss of a team in, say, Pittsburgh, there might be a little fuss but it would blow over. NYC, you’re looking at having Sharpton & crew who don’t care whether Minaya was actually, y’know, GOOD at his job, just that he has a highly visible one, marching around your stadium on opening day.
I doubt this would be a problem. First of all, I doubt Sharpton would get involved in something so trivial. I doubt there’d be an uproar at all. Even if there was, it would die pretty quickly once everyone realized that actual fans of the team are all pretty happy about it. If Wilpon is holding off on firing Minaya because he’s concerned about race-related backlash, that organization is in even more trouble than I thought.
Steven Jackson has been DFA'ed
According to DK on Twitter
Thought so too.
Agree that it isn’t a big deal but what exactly has Claggett done to hang around this long?
Just making this up as I go along . . . .
Maybe there’s a timing issue. Somebody still has to go to clear room for Dotel and, who knows, maybe the market has gotten to the point where they’re thinking of signing another reliever. There are still a few decent lefties out there. So it could be Claggett and Jakawhosis are still on the bubble, but with a bunch of relievers still on the market they think this is the best time to slip somebody through waivers, so they went with the guy they’d least like to lose.
Pretty devious, eh?
Tim Williams of Buccofans.com had a good writeup
Said that Claggett with his 91-92 mph has a set-up man ceiling. Article’s main thesis is that the Pirates are keepin potential rather than safe production. I really think Neal sees something in Claggett that nobody else is.
Anyway go over to that site and read it if you haven’t yet.
by BadAndy on Jan 19, 2010 11:03 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
His father was Jedd?
In the Beverly Hillbillies? (That’s a black-and-white, pre-TV on I-pods, pre-cable, sticom for all of you under 30 types_
by Trogluddite on Jan 19, 2010 11:09 PM EST up reply actions
This is like
watching that guy who turned a paperclip into a house by trading and trading and trading.
B.Jones and Jackson in a trade?
DK suggests in his story today that the Pirates may be on the verge of a two or three for one deal and that both Jackson and B.Jones would be involved. That deal would clear space for Dotel.
That might explain why it was Jackson who was DFAed.
I must say...
…it’s really strange to see Dejan talking about the team trying to put together a “package deal”.
He stopped.....
lecturing on that one last year when about twenty happened.
To be fair, Dejan uses the term “package deal” as shorthand for trade proposals that fans push where we trade 3-4 guys we don’t need for a good player.
BA once ran a GM poll where one question was what discourages you most as a GM. One GM answered that it was trade proposals he gets from fans where he trades a bunch of marginal players for a big star.
I want to poll Huntington
Off the record, of course, and see what annoys him the most about the idiots here. Hell, I get pissed just reading the Facebook fan page, and I don’t even own one share of the team.
NH’s statements this morning suggest that no trade is forthcoming:
“As we worked through our roster move options with the 29 other clubs, some clubs expressed interest in other players but they did not have enough interest that we were able to work out a small trade,” he said.
This is kind of a shame
since…well…we have eight(?) outfielders in the majors at this point. I was under the assumption that at least two of them would be gone via some kind of trade by the beginning of the season.
Especially
considering the Mets just traded for Gary Matthews Jr. If NH had known there was a market for no bat, decent glove OF, he should’ve jumped!
The glare of the spotlight is harsh, and the pressure that success breeds immense. We revere our heroes, but expect much. And criticism can come as easily as praise.
Actually
Considering the UZR of -14.6 and UZR/150 of -24.6, the Mets just acquired a starting OF (for them at least) who was below replacement level. In fact, his best WAR since 2006: .5. He has posted consecutive -.8 WAR seasons since. Yesh…
The glare of the spotlight is harsh, and the pressure that success breeds immense. We revere our heroes, but expect much. And criticism can come as easily as praise.
That probably was the most valuable catch ever made.
Forget Willie Mays’ gem, I doubt he ever cached in on a single outstanding defensive play in the way GMJ did on that one. I happened to be watching the Rangers game when he made it, and I immediately considered myself lucky to have witnessed one of the greatest catches I will ever see in my life.
Sometimes the best moves a GM can make are the moves they don’t make, and the Rangers’ decision to not try to match the Angels’ offer for him is in that category. That is also the reason the fans shouldn’t be telling a good GM what to do, because most of them around here were calling the Rangers cheap for not doing all they could to keep him.
by MarkInDallas on Jan 23, 2010 6:36 PM EST up reply actions
btw I m curious about the waiver process
Can the Pirates put someone on waivers without DFA-ing, say someone like Ramon Vazquez? I guess these waivers work differently from the midseason ones, where you can pull someone back off waivers?
You can waive a player at any time.
But there’s no advantage to doing so over DFA, when DFA is available, so most teams won’t unless they have no other option.
The waivers from which you can pull a player back (i.e. revocable waviers) are only available from the trade deadline to the end of the season, and they’re entirely distinct from typical transactional waivers. A player put on revocable waivers remains on his team’s 40-man roster, and as such, would have been useless under these circumstances anyway.
Doug Davis
joins the Brewers. I hate this move! He is going to be the next Bucco-killer on the brewers.

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