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Ryan Vogelsong Resurfaces With Phillies

Dejan Kovacevic notes that the Phillies have signed Ryan Vogelsong to a minor-league deal, which made me smile, because I hadn't thought about him for a while. After flaming out with the Bucs, Vogelsong pitched two seasons for the Hanshin Tigers, where he played respectably. He also evidently pitched for the Orix Buffaloes this year:

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I may be the only one who doesn't know this

but why do the J-League jerseys have the Japanese players’ names transliterated using Roman characters?

by ThisYearsModel on Jan 7, 2010 2:35 AM EST reply actions  

I was wondering that too. Patthatt?

by Charlie Wilmoth on Jan 7, 2010 2:47 AM EST up reply actions  

Charlie

I’m not really sure why, but I guess the different answers below probably sum up the reasons for it.

Ryan Vogelsong with 6 consecutive strikeouts this year for the Orix Buffaloes. He looks pretty healthy hitting 150 km/h(93 mph) on the final pitch.

Gotta give the man credit for the hard work he must have put in to have two NPB teams employ him over three seasons.

Wish him the best with the Phillies.

by patthatt on Jan 7, 2010 7:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Because...

…I believe Japanese people are used to “our” characters as well as Japanese characters. It’s probably more readable from long distances.

by joepinion on Jan 7, 2010 9:32 AM EST up reply actions  

Indeed:

From Wikipedia:

“All Japanese who have attended elementary school since World War II have been taught to read and write romanized Japanese. Romanization is also the most common way to input Japanese into word processors and computers. Therefore, almost all Japanese are able to read and write Japanese using rōmaji. The primary usage of rōmaji is on computers and other electronic devices that do not support the display or input of Japanese characters, in educational materials for foreigners, and in academic papers in English (or other Western languages) written on Japanese linguistics, literature, history, and culture.”

by joepinion on Jan 7, 2010 9:34 AM EST up reply actions  

An interesting question...

Looking through some old NPB uniforms here, they don’t appear to have ever used Japanese characters of any kind on the front or back. I would guess it might be because baseball is an imported sport and roman letters just seemed more appropriate.

They do use Japanese characters on their scoreboards, though – kanji (漢字) for Japanese players and katakana (カタカナ) for foreign players.

by maguro on Jan 7, 2010 10:56 AM EST up reply actions  

Remember

That Vogelsong would write all the things that he was supposed to concentrate on under the bill of his cap. With all that to think about, it’s no wonder he couldn’t pitch.

by God Loves on Jan 7, 2010 8:07 AM EST reply actions  

What were Voglesong's stats while in Japan?

Does anyone have a link to Voglesong’s states for his years in Japan?

I’d be curious to see how he fared.

An interesting related topic would be, a discussion of players who returned from Japan and had greater MLB success as a result of the experience and ongoing development.

The big one (no pun intended) that comes to mind is Cecil Fielder. He didn’t do a whole lot in his 1st 4 seasons with the Blue Jays but played in Japan in 1989 and then came back to MLB with the Tigers in 1990 and become one of the games top sluggers.

I can’t think of any others off the top of my head.

by Nutting Hostage on Jan 7, 2010 8:36 AM EST reply actions  

Nutting Hostage

I remember Cecil Fielder splitting time with Fred McGriff before heading to Japan.

He got a huge raise to go over, which is not surprising considering Japan was at the peak of its “economic bubble.”

Hanshin Tigers’ fans desperately wanted a slugger to replace the departed Randy Bass who was extremely popular during his several years with the team, tying Sadaharu Oh’s season HR record and leading the team to a Japan Series win.

Fielder hit 38 HRs in something like 90 games before breaking a finger, IIRC. The Hanshin Tigers wanted him back, but I think the sticking point was Fielder wanted a guaranteed two-year deal, which was something generally unheard of in Japan at the time, to my knowledge.

I was in Japan in ’90 in the Navy when Fielder returned for the then biannual MLB/NPB All-Star Series games. (A skinny Barry Bonds was there, too.) The MLB team lost the series 4 games to 3 with a tie. I remember Fielder saying afterwards that he had told his teammates to show up in good shape and ready to play, or there was a chance they could lose. (Hideo Nomo won a couple of starts for NPB, I think, and really caught the eye of the MLB people.)

I don’t think there’s any doubt that Tuffy Rhodes became a much better player in Japan. How good he would have been if he’d returned to MLB after 2-3 years in Japan is a question that can’t be answered.

I’m skeptical of how good Alex Cabrera would have been in Japan without PEDs. (He went through his best years there without any worries about drug testing, which NPB only truly put into place a couple of seasons ago.)

Matt Stairs obviously made a productive career for himself in the majors after playing half of the ’93 season in Japan with the Chunichi Dragons. He had 6 HRs and 22 RBIs in 58 games.

Alfonso Soriano’s story with the Hiroshima Carp as a teenager before “escaping” to MLB is an interesting one.

Starting around 10-15 years ago, Japanese teams started keeping successful foreign players around longer, and there has been more movement of foreign players between Japanese teams. Foreigner players who work hard and perform well are gradually being accepted more as equal team members, instead of as disposable “helpers”.

Accordingly, most of the successful ones who go over there at a young enough age to improve often stay there through their peak years now, so it’s hard to say how many really would do better in MLB upon a hypothetical return.

by patthatt on Jan 7, 2010 7:54 PM EST up reply actions  

I remember Vlad and I having a similar-themed discussion

on his old blog, with Alex Ramirez as the focal point of conversation.

by patthatt on Jan 7, 2010 7:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Anyway,

if Bud Selig has his way, MLB fans will be able to see the World Series champs play the NPB champs in an annual series starting a few years from now.

by patthatt on Jan 7, 2010 7:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Hey pat

When/where were you in the Navy? My best friend from HS was stationed in Yokohoma on a fast frigate for a few years, mid-decade. Before that he was out of Hawaii, iirc.

by JRoth95 on Jan 7, 2010 10:00 PM EST up reply actions  

JRoth

Your friend was probably stationed at Yokosuka. I spent a short time there-summer of ’91-but most of my time between ’90 and ’93 was at the airfield in Atsugi.

by patthatt on Jan 8, 2010 9:52 AM EST up reply actions  

Ahhhh

Resize the YouTube video Charlie.

by Slizeezyc on Jan 7, 2010 9:55 AM EST reply actions  

What’s wrong with it? It looks fine in my browser. Too big?

by Charlie Wilmoth on Jan 7, 2010 2:11 PM EST up reply actions  

That video is good...

…but for my money, this one is even better.

by Vlad on Jan 7, 2010 10:08 AM EST reply actions  

We should’ve moved him to OF!

Actually, he couldn’t have been less useful than Rios was.

Question on that trade: a few months ago I read a piece from SF, written at the time, that was quite bullish on both Vogelsong and Rios. So was it a decent trade that just didn’t work out, or was it always doomed. I know that, on our side, Schmidt hadn’t really proved himself yet, but were Rios and Vogelsong really supposed to be promising, or what?

by JRoth95 on Jan 7, 2010 2:09 PM EST up reply actions  

That’s what I gathered. Good example of the run of bad luck I’ve talked about – two guys, neither of whom achieving even a fraction of their projected success. I don’t even think you can realistically point to flaws in the Pirates organization – both of them came straight to the majors (without being rushed), both utterly failed to handle it, and never got better.

Sigh.

by JRoth95 on Jan 7, 2010 10:03 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't want to overstate my case.

SF had a fairly weak system at the time, so it’s not like Vogelsong was seen as a lead pipe cinch or anything like that. He was an interesting arm with a few flaws (including mechanics that seemed to point to potential health issues – heh!) , and one of the better trade chips in SF’s system.

by Vlad on Jan 8, 2010 7:48 AM EST up reply actions  

Weren't

Boof Bonser and Kurt Ainsworth both ahead of him? Pretty sure they were like top 30 prospects at the time and Vogelsong was more like 4-5 on the Giants list but the “closest to the majors” suiting Little Dave’s fetish just fine. Rios was also nothing more than a 4th OF imo.

by Mr. E on Jan 8, 2010 5:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Half-right.

Checked my notes, and Ainsworth did have a higher rank at the time. You’re a year early on Bonser, though – he was well-regarded, but since 2001 was his breakout season, he didn’t really start receiving huge acclaim until 2002.

by Vlad on Jan 8, 2010 5:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Not sure what list you’re looking at, but I imagine Jerome Williams would have been on it too. Probably a year early for Jesse Foppert. There was a year or so there when it looked like the Giants had a bunch of really good young pitchers.

by Charlie Wilmoth on Jan 8, 2010 7:11 PM EST up reply actions  

BA's 2001 top 10.

Don’t have it with me right now – I’m at work.

by Vlad on Jan 10, 2010 7:02 PM EST up reply actions  

OK, found an online list at the Cube

Their top 10 in ’01 was:

Williams
Ainsworth
Tony Torcato
Lance Niekro
Vogelsong
Sean McGowan
Damon Minor
Pedro Feliz
Carlos Valderrama
Jeff Urban

…in that order.

Liriano wasn’t signed until late 2000, and hadn’t pitched at all at the time the list came out. As such, he woudln’t have been eligible for a trade anyway, unless they called him a PTBNL and took him after the season.

by Vlad on Jan 10, 2010 7:09 PM EST up reply actions  

In case anyone's curious, our list in 2001:

J.R. House
Bobby Bradley
J.J. Davis
Aron Weston
Jose Castillo
Jack Wilson
Chris Young
Sean Burnett
John Grabow
Ryan Doumit

…in that order. Vogelsong made our list at #7 in 2002.

by Vlad on Jan 10, 2010 7:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Whole lotta nothing in that list, but Williams and Ainsworth definitely got their fair share of attention.

by Charlie Wilmoth on Jan 10, 2010 10:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Feliz had his uses, thanks to the glove.

But yeah, on the whole a pretty grim yield.

by Vlad on Jan 11, 2010 10:46 AM EST up reply actions  

I looked for that one and couldn’t find it. That’s awesome.

by Charlie Wilmoth on Jan 7, 2010 2:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Attended a game

In 2006, I attended a Hanshin Tigers game and couldn’t believe Vogelsong was pitching. The difference this time was instead of watching him lose in the ’Burg, I watched him win in Japan. What a treat.

by fombell on Jan 7, 2010 1:29 PM EST reply actions  

What happended to him did he just suck terriblely or did he get injuried

Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: DIck Lebeau, Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Greg Llyod, Andy Russel, Chris Carter, Kevin Greene and Jerry Kramer
"If you give Arians a fullback, he won’t use one. Instead, he insists on using Matt Spaeth, who probably doesn’t cast a shadow because it would require blocking sunlight." stellin with some very true words

by WVPiratesfan on Jan 7, 2010 2:09 PM EST reply actions  

Sucked terribly

Unless I’m mistaken, he was never hurt. But he was never effective, either.

by JRoth95 on Jan 7, 2010 2:18 PM EST up reply actions  

so he was a typical DL player

Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: DIck Lebeau, Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Greg Llyod, Andy Russel, Chris Carter, Kevin Greene and Jerry Kramer
"If you give Arians a fullback, he won’t use one. Instead, he insists on using Matt Spaeth, who probably doesn’t cast a shadow because it would require blocking sunlight." stellin with some very true words

by WVPiratesfan on Jan 7, 2010 3:19 PM EST up reply actions  

You're mistaken.

Blew out his elbow shortly after the trade. That said, he may have sucked anyway – there were indications along those lines.

by Vlad on Jan 7, 2010 3:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Nuts

That was a long time ago.

by JRoth95 on Jan 7, 2010 10:04 PM EST up reply actions  

No wonder Phillie signedd him

He’s up his pitch speed to 145 mph – I’m surprised no one else grabbed him….

by Trogluddite on Jan 7, 2010 9:39 PM EST reply actions  

Too bad he didn’t sign with the Brewers, Flubs, or Cards.

by Adam Reynolds on Jan 8, 2010 1:28 AM EST reply actions  

I don't like what I've heard so far of the proposal,

and I can’t imagine the MLBPA going along with it as well.

by patthatt on Jan 9, 2010 2:40 PM EST reply actions  

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