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Around SBN: Jeff Sullivan's MLB Trade Deadline Primer

Cam Bonifay Speaks

A couple of very minor links:

-P- If you happen to be in North Carolina late this month and you'd like to ask Cam Bonifay some uncomfortable questions, here's your chance.

I hadn't realized someone (I'm not sure who; stop writing in passive voice, people!) named Bonifay "General Manager of the year" after the 1997 Freakshow season. I guess it goes to show how fragile reputations can be. The weird thing is that by all appearances, at the end of 1997, there was reason to think that Bonifay was doing pretty well. He'd grabbed Francisco Cordova and Ricardo Rincon out of Mexico, he got a young Jason Schmidt and a then-promising prospect in Ron Wright for Denny Neagle, he'd signed Aramis Ramirez and traded for Craig Wilson. A ridiculously cheap team led by Jason Kendall, scrap-heap guy Kevin Young and a young rotation ended up contending almost accidentally. 

But then it turned out Bonifay's drafting to that point had been mediocre, that he couldn't stop himself from promoting players to the big leagues too quickly, and that the surprise run in 1997 led him to pull the trigger on some hideous trades. And most of his high-profile prospects to that point (Chad Hermansen, Kris Benson, Wright) turned out to be disappointing.

By the way, the autotagger (the thing that creates links for all the players' names) gives me a weird little Bonifay diaspora. Benson and Cordova are listed as Rangers (Cordova played in the Rangers organization in 2002 but pitched in Mexico for several years after that), Wilson is a Mariner, Hermansen is an Angel (he was in Spring Training with them in 2008), Schmidt is a Dodger, Ramirez is of course a Cub, and Rincon is a Met (he had a bit part in New York's desperate 2008 bullpen shuffle before he headed back to Mexico).

Oh well.

-P- If you've ever wondered how many comments show up here at Bucs Dugout each year, or who the most prolific commenters are, here's some info for you

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Charlie:

Do you remember the newspaper story we had up about 2 years ago about Ron Wright?

I can’t find a link to it, but it was really interesting about his career-hitting into a triple play in his one plate appearance for the Mariners-and his life after baseball.

Time for football….

by patthatt on Jan 7, 2010 8:06 PM EST reply actions  

You're probably thinking of...

this (excellent) piece from the NYT. Well worth a click if you’ve never read it.

I have a game-used Ron Wright bat from spring training in ‘98. I like to take it out and look at it whenever I’m feeling sorry for myself.

by Vlad on Jan 8, 2010 7:15 AM EST up reply actions  

Isn’t Pat in North Carolina? Quick, somebody get him the $60 registration fee, STAT!

by matskralc on Jan 7, 2010 8:21 PM EST reply actions  

I live 45 minutes away from Wilmington where this thing is being held.

"Baseball is better than football. Think about it, eighty degrees, a cold beer and a short-sleeve shirt is better than 30 degrees, a hip flask and six layers of clothes under a lap blanket. Take your pick: suntan or frostbite. " - Thomas Boswell

by Ketcham Bruce on Jan 8, 2010 8:10 AM EST up reply actions  

I am in North Carolina, but Chapel Hill is about two and a half hours from Wilmington, which seems like slightly too long of a haul.

I didn’t realize that Bonifay’s GM of the Year award was from the Sporting News. In my mind, it was from, like, his hometown paper in Georgia or something. I still think he was doing fine until the Jose Guillen for Joe Oliver and Humberto Cota trade after Kendall’s injury in ’99.

http://www.whygavs.com
http://mlb.fanhouse.com

by whygavs on Jan 8, 2010 2:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Sidenote

The Reds employ Cam Bonifay and Bill Bavasi?!? What a front office!!!

http://www.whygavs.com
http://mlb.fanhouse.com

by whygavs on Jan 8, 2010 2:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Chad Hermansen

Wikipedia says the Angels released him during spring training 2008 – I think that’s correct.

Wikipedia says Chad is currently teaching at the Frozen Ropes BB & SB academy at Henderson, NV. Frozen Ropes official website doesn’t admit to having any presence in Nevada, so take that with a grain of salt.

by WstCstBucco on Jan 7, 2010 8:56 PM EST reply actions  

Wright may have been a top prospect...

but he began in the Braves organization. He was acquired in the Denny Neagle trade from the Braves on 8/26/96. Also coming over in the trade was Corey Pointer…and a player to be named later. The player was named on 8/30/96…Jason Schmidt. Played 91 games at AAA in Calgary (then a Pirates farm team) in 1997 with an .887 OPS…then only played a total of 44 games in 1998 and 1999 combined due to injury (wrist and back). Picked up by the Reds on waivers after the 1999 season.

Ron Wright

by Thunder on Jan 7, 2010 10:24 PM EST reply actions  

Corey Pointer had a bit of a plate discipline problem, to put it mildly, but he hit two of the longest HRs I’ve ever seen hit in a minor league game. And he was not a big guy.

by WTM on Jan 7, 2010 10:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Wright's back problem was an issue...

…but the ultimate issue with him was that in the operation to repair the back problem, the surgeon accidentally damaged his sciatic nerve, leading to persistent numbness in his right leg. Which made it awfully hard to hit.

by Vlad on Jan 8, 2010 7:17 AM EST up reply actions  

it wasn’t just wilson, schmidt and wright that bonifay traded for… there were 5 other guys who came over in the deal with toronto, including abe nunez and jose silva… what’s more, bonifay also picked up another bucket of prospects from kansas city around that time, including joe randa and three young pitchers named jeff…

and it was these trades (along with the ramirez signing and the kendall, benson and hermanson picks) that earned bonifay the sporting news mlb executive of the year award in 1997… kinda like how everyone’s atwitter about neal huntington’s similarly structured moves have earned him plenty of accolades…

but even if the circumstances may be different in some ways, there are enough similarities there that I’m not ready to crown huntington king just yet… he could still be another cam bonifay…

by Captain Easychord on Jan 7, 2010 10:34 PM EST reply actions  

Bonifay certainly had more than his share of bad luck (or bad MiL coaching and development) after those trades. If fact, he might have been sunk no matter what he did from that point forward. That said, I think that most thoughtful analysis of Bonifay’s tenure will point to his post ‘97 drafting and FA signings as the real killer. Had he stayed the course (again, assuming that the real problem wasn’t coaching and development), he might have survived the initial failure and slowly dragged the team out of its morass.

I guess that my point is that both Bonifay in 1996 and NH in 2009 made the right moves for the teams that they had. Bonifay’s prospects flamed out and he started signing Pat Meares and Kevin Young to big money extensions. If the prospects that NH has acquired match the rather astonishing failure rate of Bonifays acquisitions, it may do him in, but it doesn’t mean that he made the wrong moves at the time. Also, he is much more likely to survive such a debacle if he doesn’t become a slave to short-term outcomes and continues to load up on prospects.

One thing that is so fascinating about baseball is that smart trades are not necessarily successful, and successful trades are not always very smart at the time they’re made. Bonifay was very smart in 1996, but ultimately not successful. NH was pretty smart last season. We’ll see what happens in terms of success or failure.

by ThisYearsModel on Jan 7, 2010 11:03 PM EST up reply actions  

I don’t think the post-97 drafting did much to kill his career in Pittsburgh. It was most of the drafting before 1997. If he had been doing his job in the draft before 2000, he might not have been fired. I mean in six years from 1994 to 1999, they got five decent major leaguers in Kris Benson, Bronson Arroyo, Mike Gonzalez, John Grabow and Ryan Doumit. In six years of being the guy in charge and all he can get from his draft picks is two below average starting pitchers, two average relievers and a power hitting, but injury prone catcher. Then in 2000 and 2001, they finally got their stuff together and started drafting better. But by then, Bonifay era was already circling the drain and it was too little too late.

by IAPiratesFan on Jan 7, 2010 11:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Looking back I almost can’t believe how many guys failed for the Pirates during that time period. Baseball America’s 1997 top 100 was loaded with Pirates and none of them really did much in Pittsburgh.

Kris Benson was in the top 10, Hermansen was around 20th, Jose Guillen and Aramis Ramirez were both around 25th, Ron Wright around 50th, Abe Nunez around 70th, and Jimmy Anderson in the back end. Jose Silva was a former top 10 overall prospect, Jose Pett was a former top 100 guy, and Brandon Cromer was a former first round pick as well. Pretty amazing that Craig Wilson was probably the guy who made the biggest contribution as a Pirate of all those trades and signings, and no one was even thinking about him at the time.

by ElDuce on Jan 7, 2010 11:53 PM EST up reply actions  

From that group, we actually did pretty well.

Ramirez developed into a star, Benson and Guillen were solid regulars, and Nunez and Anderson established themselves as role-players.

This is why you need a huge mass of prospects. Some will fail entirely, and some of the rest will fail by halves. It’s just the law of the jungle.

by Vlad on Jan 8, 2010 7:19 AM EST up reply actions  

That's a bit rosy

Of the 5 you name, only Ramirez and Nunez maxed out their potential. Guillen had a decent but disappointing career (and was surely harmed by the Pirates’ handling of him), but Benson basically had 2 decent seasons and a half dozen disappointing/awful ones. I’m not sure I’d even call Jimmy Anderson a role player, but maybe he was a bit better in Cinci than I realize. As a Pirate, he was never more than a flailing #5 starter, like so many we’ve had.

But yeah, you need that quantity.

by JRoth95 on Jan 8, 2010 12:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Almost no prospects...

…“max out their potential”. That’s why stars are rare. You’ve got ceiling, and you’ve got floor, and you’ve got a whole bunch of space in between.

Jimmy Anderson was basically a league-average fifth starter from 1999-2001, before collapsing in 2002. That has at least a minimal amount of value.

Benson was a star-level performer in 1999 and 2000, a mid-rotation starter in 2004 and 2005, and below average but still useful in 2002, 2003, and 2006. That may be disappointing given the hopes that many held for him, but it’s actually pretty close to an average return on a #1 overall pick.

Benson was chosen in 1996 – take a look at the other #1s from 1980 to 2005, and how they turned out. For unambiguous stars, you’ve got Darryl Strawberry, Ken Griffey Jr., Chipper Jones, Alex Rodriguez, Adrian Gonzalez, and Joe Mauer (with Justin Upton looking like he belongs, but not yet a given). For unambiguous busts, you’ve got Shawn Abner, Brien Taylor, Bryan Bullington, and Matt Bush (with Delmon Young looking like he belongs, but not a given). Everyone else is somewhere in the middle – a solid contributor, but not a star. Benson’s career is more-or-less on a par with that of Paul Wilson or Ben McDonald or Jeff King or Darin Erstad. It’s not dynamic, but it’s about what you should expect.

by Vlad on Jan 8, 2010 2:05 PM EST up reply actions  

I'd forgotten

How solid he was in ’04. But he missed all of ’01 and was hurt for much of ’02 and ’03. ’05 was a mirage, with an ERA a full half run better than his FIP (his ’04 ERA was .38 worse than his FIP, oddly) and rapidly declining K/BB.

But yeah, probably a bit better actual results than I was giving him credit for.

by JRoth95 on Jan 8, 2010 3:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Good point about 2005...

…though it’s also worth remembering that his ERA was significantly worse than his FIP in both 2003 and 2004, probably enough to cover the gap.

We had all hoped for so much more from him, and it’s easy to forget the value of what he actually did.

by Vlad on Jan 8, 2010 4:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Similarly, Benson's highest ranking on BA's overall list was #8.

Among pitching prospects in the #6-10 overall range, from 1990 on, you’ve got:

1990: Kiki Jones (6 – Never made the majors.)
1991: Arthur Rhodes (6 – Unsuccessful as a starter, long career as a lefty reliever.)
1992: Frank Rodriguez (9 – Made the majors, but relatively unsuccessful. Seven-year career, 5.53 ERA.)
1992: Pedro Martinez (10 – Probable Hall of Famer.)
1993: Todd Van Poppel (7 – Unsuccessful as a starter, modestly successful as a reliever.)
1993: Jason Bere (8 – Two strong years as a starter, then arm surgery and a relatively undistinguished career thereafter.)
1993: Allen Watson (9 – Five decent years as a starter, fairly marginal thereafter.)
1993: Tyrone Hill (10 – Never made the majors.)
1994: James Baldwin (8 – Seven years as a starter, ranging between #3 and #5-type performances.)
1994: Jose Silva (10 – We kind of know how that turned out.
1996: Livan Hernandez (8 – Long career as a starter. Up and down performances, but on the whole pretty solid.)
1998: Matt White (6 – Never made the majors.)
1998: Carl Pavano (9 – Still active, still starting, up-and-down career with many injury problems.)
1999: Ryan Anderson (7 – Never made the majors.)
1999: Matt Clement (10 – Seven full seasons as a starter, two star-level campaigns. Out of baseball.)
2000: Ryan Anderson (9 – See 1999.)
2000: John Patterson (10 – One star-level campaign in 2005, but otherwise never healthy. Out of baseball.)
2001: C.C. Sabathia (7 – Star-level performer, still active.)
2001: Ryan Anderson (8 – See 1999, 2000.)
2002: Juan Cruz (6 – Moderately successful reliever, still active.)
2003: Jose Contreras (6 – 31-year-old Cuban defector, so definitely a non-traditional “prospect”. Still active, up-and-down performer but probably a #3 starter on the whole.)
2003: Gavin Floyd (9 – Took a while to get established, successful starter the last two years, still active.)
2003: Francisco Rodriguez (10 – Star-level performer in relief, still active.)
2004: Greg Miller (8 – Still active, hasn’t made the majors due to arm and control problems.)

22 pitchers, after removing repeat Anderson seasons. Three of them developed into unambiguous stars (Pedro, Sabathia, and K-Rod). One more wasn’t consistently star-level, but still had a career that was in my opinion significantly more successful than Benson’s (Livan). As for everyone else… would we really have been significantly better off if we’d ended up with Matt Clement’s career, or Carl Pavano’s, or James Baldwin’s, rather than Benson’s? I don’t really see it…

Anyway, as you can see, the expected fail rate for even top-pedigree pitching prospects is pretty high.

by Vlad on Jan 8, 2010 2:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Stats

The site stats are pretty cool… you can also check it out for any other SB Nation site by playing around with the URL.

by ILLZ on Jan 8, 2010 9:31 PM EST reply actions  

...if only even a THIRD

of those comments were of any real content, I’d be happy…

Free your ass and your mind will follow.

by cocktailsfor2 on Jan 10, 2010 11:23 AM EST up reply actions  

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