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Struggling Pitchers, Part One: Brad Lincoln

Charlie Morton and Brad Lincoln came into 2010 as high-upside starters close to making an impact in Pittsburgh.  Instead, they put up a combined 3-16 record, with both of their ERAs above 6.50. In a season of disappointments, these two were among the biggest. What happened, and is there any hope for these two in the future? I'll profile each of these cases (starting with Lincoln), and predict whether they will have success in the future.

Lincoln was the Bucs' fourth overall pick in the 2006 draft out of the University of Houston . He was seen as a decent pick at the time, although Tim Lincecum was Baseball America's #1 draft prospect. At the time, both Lincoln and Lincecum threw in the mid-90s with a plus curveball. The advantage for Lincecum was a much more developed change, and a slightly better fastball/curve. The disadvantage for him was concerns about his delivery, both for command and injury concerns.

The Pirates hoped Lincoln would reach the majors quickly, but unfortunately, he needed Tommy John surgery in 2007 spring training. That basically killed two years of development time. He was on the shelf for all of 2007, and spent 2008 getting his arm back to full strength. I wonder how much further he'd have developed by now if not for Tommy John.

2009 was a breakout season for Lincoln, as he finally charged through Double-A before meeting resistance in Triple-A. He had a combined 3.37 ERA, with 7.1 strikeouts per nine innings, and 1.8 walks per nine innings. Finally, he was on track to make the majors after a repeat of Triple-A.

His first two months in 2010 were uneven, with a 4.76 ERA in April, with 18 Ks in 28 innings. May was a large improvement, though, as he surged to a 2.38 ERA with 31 Ks in 34 innings. He looked ready for the majors.

Lincoln's first five starts were steady. Through the end of June, he had a 4.65 ERA. The 14 strikeouts in 31 innings were a slight red flag, although his FIP was 4.27, and he was able to limit walks and home runs.

Unfortunately, things spiraled out of control in July, as he posted a 9.61 ERA in four starts. The July FIP was 7.96, meaning he was completely over-matched. The strikeouts ran even lower, while he gave up seven home runs in just the four starts. To be fair, he did face the Pirate-killing Brewers twice in four games. But the other two teams he faced (the Astros and Padres) are not hitting powerhouses. Overall, this big-league trial showed that he needs more development.

What does Lincoln need to do to be successful? The most important thing he needs to do is throw his curveball at the ends of the strike zone. If he can't locate his biggest weapon, hitters will sit on the fastball and loft a lot of fly balls and home runs. Also, he needs to show the third offering more frequently, whether it be a slider or change. He has a close-to-average straight change, but he never uses it.

Overall, I'm confident that Lincoln could be a solid starter in 2011. Developmentally, he was between a 23- and 24-year-old in 2010, due to time missed and catch-up time from TJ. He has the prospect pedigree, and he has the stuff to go along with it. He rated higher than Jose Tabata, according to league scouts, on the Baseball America International League Top 20 Prospects this year.

The lack of strikeouts so far at the major league level is the largest concern, but nine starts just isn't enough sample size for me to write him off. Just the last four starts were disasters, and even Roy Halladay had a tough 67 innings in 2000. Once Lincoln gets 200 innings under his belt, we'll have a better idea of what he will add to the team.

Despite the rough patches in 2010, Lincoln is one of the best candidates for a major-league bounce-back in 2011.  He won't live up to his draft slot, but can still be a competitive fourth starter.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of the managing editor (Charlie) or SB Nation. FanPosts are written by Bucs Dugout readers.

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Speaking of Lincoln...

It will be interesting to see what happens after he gets de-Kerriganized. We know that Kerrigan changed something in Lincoln’s delivery…and not for the better. He seems to be happy with the changes Searage made after the temporary shutdown. Of course, with the change in manager, there are no guarantees that Searage will be back…or who the pitching coach will be.

Knowing that there was a reason for the bad performance…I haven’t given up on Lincoln yet.

by Thunder on Oct 25, 2010 6:10 AM EDT reply actions  

Kerrigan and Doumit being an awful catcher had a negative effect, but I don’t know how much. Ultimately, Lincoln will have to make his pitches, regardless of the outside factors.

by Adam Reynolds on Oct 25, 2010 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree...

I just don’t think he necessarily goes on the scrap heap just yet.

by Thunder on Oct 25, 2010 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lincoln still has an option left

So its very lkely that short of a perfect Spring Training Lincoln will start the year at Indy.

Along with Owens, Morris, and Wilson this should be a fun Indy rotation to watch

by BadAndy on Oct 25, 2010 7:56 AM EDT via mobile reply actions  

it sure sounds like it

though i believe morris may start in altoona

by white angus on Oct 25, 2010 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

Lincoln

It’s time he got a full shot at the MLB level.

It’s not like the Pirates have an elite starting pitching staff.

Let him see if he can earn a #4 or #5 spot.

by Bernie6 on Oct 25, 2010 10:51 AM EDT reply actions  

Bernie, open job competition? surely you jest

  We dont do things like that here…

  99 losses in 2009 and not a single position opening into 2010…105 losses in 2010 yet Owens/Wilson ect could throw the best stats next spring and still get sent down…maybe they’ll do to Lincoln what they did w/ RESOP…who was nearly unhittable as a starter yet NH turned him back to a reliever, a position that caused him arm issues and bad numbers thru out his career…the genius must feel our starters are too good to sit and middle relief was more important to our sucess,,,it’s that square peg into a round hole thought process that has us not only losing more games yearly but looking more like the bad news bears in doing so.

 He’s a comedy of errors at the MLB level…D Young experiment at 2B, calling Walker up in sept after being RED/HOT for 2-3 months prior and having him sit the pine while Vazquez and Young play daily…when the worst swing in baseball Laroche got hurt, instead of moving AKI to 3rd, a position he played for years and a position where his fata$$ limited range could be hidden…he moves D Young to 3rd, a position he never ever played…BAD NEWS BEARS…Doumit at 1B when the option didn’t make any sense unless you were NH/JR…and it cost us the game. A .250 hitting Doumit in RF LOL,

 The idiot shift atleast got the bucs some national press LOL…

 Everyone can blame we have NO talent and 105 losses was good considering…what a crock of crap…any competitent GM/MGR who would use his guys properly and wins a min of 70 games IMO…team has more talent than 105 losses.

by Dan Jenkins on Oct 25, 2010 1:40 PM EDT reply actions  

Walker never played 2nd before.

He was just learning and while he was hitting well it may have been just a good period for him and he would come back down to his career numbers. At least Young had a crash course from Perry Hill and had more time at 2nd than Walker. I have no problem with keeping Walker in AAA as long as they did.

by oldfrothingslosh on Oct 25, 2010 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

They spoke of trying Laroche at 2B too so playing either at 2B or 3B

   Walkers hitting might have been a hot period or it may have been that he found/discovered his stroke…either way, when a guys that hot over 2-3 months, the only way to truly find out is to play him daily to see if his stroke was MLB ready. What do you gain playing Vazquez and Young daily and have your hottest triple A hitter sit the pine?

   We are only talking a couple of months plus the 5 mill aki disaster and to be bluntly honest…if not for injuries, Walker IMO…would have NEVER gotten his opp to play regularly up here…he’d went somewhere else and eventually suceeded…his swing has really developed over the past couple years (from going to spring training yearly).

  Pujol’s would have been 3 years late in this organization IMO.

by Dan Jenkins on Oct 25, 2010 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

walker got called up simple because Aki stunk up the joint

had nothing to do with injuries. thats why Walker played 2B almost exclusively the last 2-3 weeks in Indy. You sound just like the other yinzers who claim NH doesnt like the Littlefield guys…. enuff!

by white angus on Oct 26, 2010 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed on converting Resop to a reliever, and using D Young and Doumit as Swiss army knives. Those weren’t my favorite moves from NH (and JR).

by Adam Reynolds on Oct 25, 2010 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

I have no problem with the way Walker was handled...

but I think you are pretty much on the spot with everything else; though I don’t think any of the AA guys will be ready for the show out of spring.

by Slick1 on Oct 25, 2010 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

I would bet Owens is one of the top 5 starters in the organization right now

But he won’t get a shot because of service time issues. So he won’t be called up, but I hesitate to say he wouldn’t be “ready”, compared to our other options.

by Pghfan987 on Oct 25, 2010 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's just it that though...

I’m not comparing any of those guys, including Owens, to our other options to determine readiness. I don’t think it can hurt any of them to spend some time in AAA before bringing them to Pittsburgh.

by Slick1 on Oct 25, 2010 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

this

they shouldn’t be compared to our other options, either.

They need to be as MLB ready as they possibly can be before they come to Pittsburgh.

by BurgherKing on Oct 26, 2010 12:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

i agree

look at Lincoln, whom was our top pitching prospect last season. he went to AAA, pitched fairly well, got ripped a new one in the show. bypassing AAA is fine if the talent calls for it. strasburg was called up to sell tickets, and having him start against the pirates almost guaranteed a dominating performance. if the pirates are contending for a pennant, i could see them bringing up a stud prospect from altoona, but theres no point if the MLB team is not in contention

by white angus on Oct 26, 2010 8:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

bypassing AAA is fine if the talent calls for it.

Which it doesn’t in this case, IMO. Our guys are good, but they ain’t Strasburg.

by Vlad on Oct 26, 2010 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ignore service time issues for a second. If that was a non-issue, and you were the GM of the Pirates, where would you have Owens start the season, and where would you have Morton start the season? Assume we don’t sign anyone worthy of a rotation spot in free agency.

by Pghfan987 on Oct 26, 2010 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

Morton in MLB, Owens in AAA.

Owens needs more time against upper-minors competition.

by Vlad on Oct 26, 2010 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions  

You have to fill out the starting rotation in Pittsburgh with 5 warm bodies.

by Pghfan987 on Oct 26, 2010 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

What about Duke?

Is he getting DFAed or is it assumed he will have a rotation spot?

by Pghfan987 on Oct 26, 2010 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Dejan's POV

makes me assume a non-tender.

It’s quite possible he’s retained though

by BurgherKing on Oct 26, 2010 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Morton → MLB

Owens → AAA

by BurgherKing on Oct 26, 2010 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

First of all, obviously even if we had a Strasburg in AA, we would keep him there until mid-season for service time reasons. I am not disputing that. I am disputing whether Owens is “ready”, and whether AAA ball really helps develop a pitcher. Unless he is going to be learning a new pitch this season (which I don’t think he is), then Owens will either sink or swim with his stuff at this point. He can’t improve much on his command (the same cannot be said for Lincoln). If Owens succeeds in MLB, it will be because his stuff is good enough now; not because he learned something in AAA that he couldn’t learn in AA or MLB.

That said, Owens is young and will hopefully continue to improve over the next several seasons. It is tough for rookie MLB pitchers to succeed; even Greg Maddux had an ERA over 5.5 in his first 200 MLB innings. We all hope that the 2013 version of Owens is a top-of-the-rotation guy, if not sooner. We also all agree that Owens should start the season in AAA because he doesn’t have anything else to learn in Altoona, and starting his arbitration clock at the beginning of a year where we don’t expect to be competitive is dumb. Where we disagree is whether the 2013 version of Owens has a better chance of being successful if he gets a few months in Indy or not. I don’t think it makes a difference’; he will sink or swim with his command, and I don’t think we will know whether his command is good enough to make him an effective starting pitcher or not until he is pitching against Albert Pujols, Ryan Braun, etc.

by Pghfan987 on Oct 26, 2010 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

well put PGHfan

  My thought w/ Owens is if he dominates in spring and is clearly one of our best…should he still be sent down to AAA to save some money and another year of service?

  If he shows/ goes out and solidly wins a spot…he should start the season here JMHO…this team has all it’s “near term prospect position pieces” on the field right now…you play the guys who “EARN” the positions and bring in a good mgr who doesn’t do idiot shifts/ bad baseball moves…this team has enough inherent talent to play OVER .500 ball (trust me when I say I’ve been so negative on this team for many years…people called me a dumb basher…well I was correct on those predictions/assessments…and I am saying this team has the talent if coached/managed properly to end the streak)

  If Owens is on par w/ other candidates, you send him to AAA but if he outperforms his competition handily…there’s no reason to send him to AAA…his command is already there.

by Dan Jenkins on Oct 26, 2010 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think Owens will start the season in Indy, regardless of how he performs in Bradenton, just to save money. If there was an open competition between Morton, Lincoln, and Owens for one rotation spot, my instinct is that Owens would earn that spot. “Stuff” doesn’t mean much when you can’t locate it.

Lincoln and Morton will probably both get rotation spots, and Owens will likely replace the least effective of those two (or an injured player) in June.

by Pghfan987 on Oct 26, 2010 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

That's kind of a sticky question.

I think it depends not only on whether Owens dominates, but on exactly how he does it. If he’s missing bats and hitting spots and changing speeds, I’m potentially open to the possibility. If he’s “dominating” the way Sean Burnett did in ST in 2008, then not so much.

by Vlad on Oct 26, 2010 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

Burnett comparison

Burnett’s career MiLB K rate was a laughable 5.4. Owens’ is 7.8 Even though Owens has not pitched at AAA yet, he had a 7.9 rate over 150 innings in Altoona last season, so his K rate has not regressed significantly yet.

by Pghfan987 on Oct 26, 2010 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

So touchy about the K rate!

I was citing Burnett not because of any similarity between the two pitchers (though there are some definite points of commonality there), but because Burnett got a lot of ink for “dominating” in ST and being left off the roster in 2008 (example), when in reality he mostly just got lucky about balls being hit right at people for a couple of games, without particularly strong component ratios.

If we’re talking about a scenario where Owens is “dominating”, I want to make sure that we’re all using a similar working definition for the word, y’know?

by Vlad on Oct 26, 2010 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

I agree with you

My point is that there was a reason to be skeptical of Burnett’s success, given the SSS and his MiLB record. If Owens has a very good spring training, he would have a much better chance of continuing that success over 200 MLB innings.

by Pghfan987 on Oct 26, 2010 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

Lincoln vs. Owens

Lincoln’s ERAs at Indy in 2009 and 2010 were 4.70 and 4.12, respectively. Calling him our top pitching prospect last season is more of an insult to a the Pirates’ farm system than a compliment about Lincoln’s resume. I know the allure of Lincoln is his stuff, because he throws a little harder than Owens and has a sharp breaking curveball that he doesn’t locate very well.

In a world without arbitration issues, Owens would be in the mix this Spring Training for a rotation spot. If he looked better than Morton or Lincoln, he would get their spot and pitch every fifth day. My instinct on Owens is that after battling some inevitable nerves in his Pittsburgh debut, he becomes the best pitcher we have until someone currently under the age of 20 comes to Pittsburgh.

by Pghfan987 on Oct 26, 2010 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think skipping AAA should be used only in rare cases

I don’t see Owens as a rare case. It’s not like he’s a lock to be lights out in MLB or even an average pitcher. Why risk screwing him up?

by MarkInDallas on Oct 26, 2010 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

I know we have had this debate before, but it’s October and there isn’t much else to talk about. :)

What “risk” are you talking about? What specifically would Owens be working on in Indy that he didn’t do in Altoona and he couldn’t do in Pittsburgh this season?

Do you think Owens would be a better MLB pitcher right now than Morton or Lincoln? If not, why not? While you talk about “stuff”, keep in mind that Owens has a better MiLB K rate than both of those two.

by Pghfan987 on Oct 26, 2010 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

What specifically would Owens be working on in Indy that he didn’t do in Altoona and he couldn’t do in Pittsburgh this season?

Fastball command, plus refinements of how to use his change against hitters with a more advanced approach. If a finesse guy isn’t quite ready in either or both of those areas, he’s going to get his brains beaten in on the ML level, and he can get shell-shocked in the head. Given what we all hope Owens can be, why take the chance?

by Vlad on Oct 26, 2010 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

I just don’t see having Owens pitch against MLB competition a few months early as “taking a chance.” I think he will sink or swim with his current command (which seems stellar to me) and repertoire of pitches.

If he needs to work on his change (i.e. change his grip, learn to locate it better against lefties, etc) then I can see the need for him to work on that in Indy. If his change isn’t very good and he is going to be taking the same approach as last season, then I see spending time in Indy as merely delaying the inevitable and not minimizing any risk.

by Pghfan987 on Oct 26, 2010 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

It really depends on what he shows in spring

  there’s been plenty of very young pitchers making it w/ less time in than what Owens currently has..esp being a college player.

  If he’s not easily above the competition thru spring, AAA;s the right move…but my issue comes from the buc’s “winning doesn’t really count yet” attitude…your position players are HERE RIGHT NOW…good bad or indifferent…back end relievers are set…we need to put our best 5 starters (the guys who give you the best chance game in game out to win NOW)…until NH realizes that our “CLOCK” has started and it’s time to win today…everything’s a mute point.

by Dan Jenkins on Oct 26, 2010 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

He's not exactly a "college player".

He had one year of JuCo ball, while we were following him post-draft. Chandler-Gilbert Community College is a step up from high school ball, but it’s not the same thing as a D-1 program in a good conference.

(A list of Chandler-Gilbert players in the pros from the last ten years, which gives you a sense for the level of play there. Andre Ethier’s the one big dog on the list, with Young and Sarfate also seeing some time in the majors.)

by Vlad on Oct 26, 2010 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Is Mike Leake a good comparison here? He was rushed and was reasonably competent

by Mr. E on Oct 27, 2010 12:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

It's not, for me

It is harder to get AAA hitters out than AA hitters out. It is harder to get MLB hitters out than AAA hitters out. Obviously.

I am debating whether spending several months in AAA really helps the long-term development of a prospect when he is going to take the same approach that he did in AA.

For example, with the Pirates they want their young prospects to pitch almost exclusively fastballs at A ball to work on their command. As they move up to A+ and AA, they build their repertoire by working on their breaking stuff. Owens appears to be a finished product, and he will either sink or swim with his current arsenal. I hope he swims, but to me several months in AAA is merely delaying the inevitable.

by Pghfan987 on Oct 26, 2010 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

when he is going to take the same approach that he did in AA

If it turns out his approach doesn’t get AAA hitters out quite as easily as in AA, he’s going to refine that approach, figure out new ways to tackle better hitters, perhaps learn to study/read hitters better.

I have no idea why you think Owens is a finished product, as a AA pitcher, esp given you haven’t seen him pitch.

Finally, if his AA results should be gospel truth, then he ends up very close to Paul Maholm. Which is not bad. Just not worth the amount of heartburn you seem to be suffering over it.

by BurgherKing on Oct 26, 2010 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

No heartburn here

Just trying to keep myself occupied during a boring class. :)

by Pghfan987 on Oct 26, 2010 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's a good thing hindsight is 20/20, eh?

Why didn’t the front office jump at the chance to throw in a hitter with a .259/.307/.448 career line in AAA who had never played second base?
And clearly, anyone else would have played Resop as a starter, which is exactly the Marlins and Braves did just that when they had him. Oh, wait, he has 19 career starts, 15 of which are from last year. Experience? Pitch development? Pah! He’s played well enough, throw him into the fire at the MLB level already.
Clearly, the front office has no idea what they are doing by not jumpiing to conclusions based on small sample size at every opportunity. Oh wait, did I say every? I meant only when it’s right. They should just know these things ahead of time, instead of making decisions based on evidence.

by thecheeseisblue on Oct 25, 2010 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

blue cheese

  The realization that some younger guys discover their swing a little later (he’s not 30 years old) ..and anyone w/ any baseball IQ could see his swing come together over the past year or two…maybe you can tell NH this part too…but how a player is pitching or hitting over the past season or so…or pitched the past season and if his trajectory is moving up or down is more important that what he did 3.4.5 years ago…and if a guy is dominating for a period of time, it’s okay to see if he carries it the the MLB team.

  Walker hit over .330 2H ’09 w/ power…he gains nothing, the team gains nothing by bringing him up to sit the bench and watch Vazquez/Young play daily.

  Resop’s case is pure common sense, you have no starters, you have a guy who’s been unhittable as a starter…better numbers than your top prospect yet you believe moving him to middle relief ( a position where he’s had arm issues and terrible results) is the logical move? That’s idiotic.

  I could buy that argument if we had 5 or more effective starters like ATL had…or if his starter numbers were average or even just good but they were DOMINANT…maybe even if we were fighting for a playoff spot and afraid to disrupt chemistry of the starting staff but that wasn’t the case…WE SHOULD BE putting guys in positions that give them the best chance to not only succeed but to help us WIN games for the near future…His starter numbers dictate that he DESERVED A CHANCE to win and keep a starters spot.

 When we claimed him, I had no idea who RESOP was but when I read that 11 other NL teams put a waiver claim in for RESOP…I felt pretty darn good about the claim…after looking at his performance plus seeing his “stuff”,,,IMO he’s not middle relief “chopped liver”

by Dan Jenkins on Oct 26, 2010 8:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

on walker

you make it sound like he was missing out on something when they called him up and he “sat the bench” in september of 09. He could either sit on the ML bench, or sit at home on the couch, as the minor league season was over.

by titanlord91 on Oct 26, 2010 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

on walker

I think a lot of us felt the same when the played Vazquez or DY daily. Although I will admit no one necessarily argued strongly for Walker at 2B.

by BurgherKing on Oct 26, 2010 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Most wanted Laroche at 2B and Walker at 3B

  I didn’t like Laroche from day 1…the worst swing in baseball IMO…he overachieved at .260 w/ 12 HR’s…

by Dan Jenkins on Oct 26, 2010 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

its possible

but i didnt see many such claims (or dont remember). Do you want to refresh my memory by posting links to support your claim?

Ditto on the swing of Laroche. I could buy that you thought so on Day 1, but at this point, in the absence of better info, I m gonna say the probability you liked his swing then is equal to the probability that you didnt.

by BurgherKing on Oct 26, 2010 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

correction

replace “i m gonna say” with “i m gonna think”

by BurgherKing on Oct 26, 2010 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Laroches swing was my opinion

  I saw him play at LA…he’s on his tip toes as the pitch is coming in and then rolls back to his heals…all his “core balance” is on your a$$ when you’re shifting like that…it ends up an arm swing. They guys strong, I will testify to that but his swing minimizes any consistant power, esp to left.

 I hated him being part of that deal along w/ Hanson, Moss and Loche…Loche has proven me wrong so far, hopefully he proves me completely wrong. It was common knowledge LA was shopping him and just wanted a decent prospect back..no where near an A guy.

  I read the claims numbers when I searched RESOP (googled or whatever) the day of the announcement…it was a headline blurb on the search page…didn’t say who put in for him…I just googled him and I dont see any headlines…but it had maybe 20-30 single sentence headlines listed on whatever web-site I clicked that day….that caught my eye ( didn’t know him and that many teams interested was a good sign IMO)

by Dan Jenkins on Oct 26, 2010 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Who is Loche? Do you mean Jeff Locke? Because he came in the McLouth trade. Bryan Morris was the fourth part of the Bay trade.

by thecheeseisblue on Oct 26, 2010 7:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

you misunderstood the "claims"

Resop is good, and I’d discussed him before as well.

The claim I was talking about was that people wanted Laroche at 2B and Walker at 3B. I dont remember seeing that very often, except in context of Alvarez to 3B. If you have links supporting your statement, I’d like to see them.

by BurgherKing on Oct 26, 2010 7:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

We missed out

   We blew 5 mil on a guy to try and fill a hole because our beloved GM felt he’d rather play Vazquez who was good as gone and Young who not only couldn’t field the position but hit under .200 while starting there. A 3 month hot streak like Walker was on (if NH could judge a swing, he might have had a clue that Walker’s bat had a decent shot to continue up here) he deserved a shot to play daily to see if indeed he was ready…or if he wasn’t…and that’s when you spend your money to fill the hole…NH had to find out and he dropped the ball.

  NH’s baseball common sense…it’s literally non-existent…Common sense tells you to find out if your hottest AAA hitter is finally ready for the majors and will fill that hole.

  That 5 mill could have helped elsewhere for sure.

by Dan Jenkins on Oct 26, 2010 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

5 mil

Vazquez?

4 mil for 2 years…. surely you arent suggesting putting in Walker at 3B in 2008?

by BurgherKing on Oct 26, 2010 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

2009...

   where did you get 2008 from? AKI is the 5 mill (4.85 mil plus young reliever)…as well as Walker was swinging 2H ’09, I believe he would have produced as well as he did when arriving here this season…hence no reason in all the world to trade for a WAIVED, overpaid 2B

by Dan Jenkins on Oct 26, 2010 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

i see

misunderstanding, because the only name you mentioned was Vazquez- my bad.

Walker’s 2008 numbers in AAA- .242/.280/.414

I’d forgive pretty much anyone for thinking he wouldnt be the solution- again, if you have links that make strong cases for Walker as a starting 2B in 2009, or even as a 2B in 2009 to start the season, I’d like to see them.

by BurgherKing on Oct 26, 2010 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

As you say, Lincoln's success depends on his curveball.

He was not able to get it in the strike zone at all, and that is his main problem. If he can do that, he can be successful. If not, he has nothing.

by MarkInDallas on Oct 25, 2010 2:35 PM EDT reply actions  

He needs to command all his pitches better

  His fastball has decent velocity but doesn;t move at all…he’s got to be able to hit the corners and stay away from the belt high stuff. Everything has to build off that fastball IMO.

  His curve needs command too…but if he can get ahead early by hitting corners, it’ll help that curve out quite a bit…as far as hitters chasing them out of the zone.

  He lost 5 MPH after his first start…he was kerriganized I guess…hopefully he regains most of that.

by Dan Jenkins on Oct 25, 2010 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

"got to be able to hit the corners and stay away from the belt high stuff."

Of course, that could be said about pretty much any and every pitcher.

Free your ass and your mind will follow.

by cocktailsfor2 on Oct 25, 2010 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

True; but to Dan's point...

it’s even more important for a pitcher with little to no movement on his fastball.

by Slick1 on Oct 25, 2010 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly

Guys with enough life on their FBs can go up the ladder with it, throwing pitches that, if they had a bit less life, would get crushed.

Thing with Lincoln is that his curve is good enough to get most of the work done – he just needs to be credible with the other pitches, so batters can’t sit and wait for something fat.

by JRoth95 on Oct 25, 2010 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lincoln has had, what, 9 major league starts?

lets say we give him a chance to learn from his mistakes, mmmmkay?

by white angus on Oct 25, 2010 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Don't think JRoth was suggesting that we get rid of Lincoln...

he’s simply pointing out, correctly IMO, that Lincoln needs to have really good command of his fastball, given it’s lack of movement, to be successful.

by Slick1 on Oct 25, 2010 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

oh, i know jroth was saying that

but lots of “fans” have already given up on Lincoln. thats whom that comment was for.

by white angus on Oct 26, 2010 8:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

It may be splitting hairs to say which is more important,

but I really believe Lincoln could hit corners with pinpoint accuracy with his fastball, but if he can’t throw the curve for strikes, he’s not going to be successful.

On the other hand, if he has good (not exceptional) control with the fastball, but can throw the curve for strikes, that is going to keep hitters off balance enough to not key on the fastball so much.

Yes, his fastball has little movement and that requires better control with it. But changing speeds is a more effective weapon than having movement on your fastball.

by MarkInDallas on Oct 26, 2010 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

Unless you are Mariano Rivera, of course.

by Mr. E on Oct 27, 2010 1:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

Curveball or spliter ?

I’m confused, when I saw Lincoln’s start against the Cubs, his best pitch was a spliter. The announcers showed a few times his grip on the ball, and that was definitly a spliter.
Is this the curveball everyone is talking about ?

Note that he got a lot of swing-and-misses with that particular pitch.

by From France on Oct 26, 2010 8:02 AM EDT reply actions  

The splitter...

…is a third pitch, that he more-or-less uses as his changeup. See here.

That’s also the pitch that’s going to make or break him as a SP, in the long run.

by Vlad on Oct 26, 2010 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks Vlad

If that’s the 3rd pitch, then it’s pretty effective from what I remember.
The problem, in my mind, is the fastball, which was very hittable.

We’ll see next season if he can regain his velocity from the minors (“4 seam fastball between 93-96 mph, 2 seam fastball between 90-92 mph”).

by From France on Oct 26, 2010 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

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