Winter League Update: Andy LaRoche Struggles, Rogelios Noris Thrives

by Charlie Wilmoth on Oct 25, 2010 4:13 AM EDT

If you haven't noticed already, MILB.com has a cool feature where you can look at all winter league stats by organization. Here's the Pirates'.

Most of the offensive numbers are nothing to write home about. In the Arizona Fall League, Andrew Lambo and Tony Sanchez are hitting fairly well, but this is in a league where wild offensive numbers aren't uncommon. Josh Harrison and Jordy Mercer haven't hit much at all so far. Among the Bucs' pitchers, Justin Wilson and Aaron Pribanic have pitched well.

There's some interesting action going on in other winter leagues as well. Andy LaRoche continues to not hit at all in Venezuela - in a very small sample, sure, but there really seems to be something going on there. As Dejan Kovacevic pointed out a few weeks bat, LaRoche doesn't even in the ball hard in batting practice anymore. Even if LaRoche doesn't really have the goods to be a major leaguer, he should be able to hit winter league pitching if he's healthy, and he should certainly be able to hit well in BP. If he isn't healthy - if his back is still bothering him - that might explain a lot. In any case, the Pirates will probably non-tender him this winter.

Another interesting line belongs to Rogelios Noris, the Class A outfield prospect, who's hitting .294/.385/.529 in Mazatlan of the Mexican Winter League. The MWL is higher-quality baseball than the South Atlantic League, where Noris played this year - a lot of MWL players are or would be Class AA or Class AAA guys in the U.S. minor league system. And yet this is the second year in a row that Noris has put up great numbers there. He hit .236 for West Virginia this year. It could just be a fluke, or he might really just love playing for his hometown team - he was born in Mazatlan.

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BP slump?

I have never heard of a player struggling to hit batting practice pitching. If there is something physically wrong, how can the Pirates not know about it. This is very strange.

Sounds like this guy really needs to get healthy or needs a change of scenery.

by BrianO' on Oct 25, 2010 6:34 AM EDT reply actions

Can't hit BP?

Yikes.

Why does this always happen to us? He could just as easily be putting up .280/20/80 with plus defense. WHY?

sigh

Well, I can always say I saw the game of his career.

by bucdaddy on Oct 25, 2010 8:47 AM EDT reply actions

andy has 12 K's in only 9 games

the dude is completely lost at the plate.

by white angus on Oct 25, 2010 9:57 AM EDT reply actions

A guess on Noris's numbers

I don’t know the scouting report on him, but I’ll bet he’s a cripple hitter (kills offspeed stuff, struggles with the fastball). Just a cursory check of some pitchers in that league shows a bunch of 30+ Latin guys, who never got a shot or washed out of US baseball. If they had/have velocity, that wouldn’t have happened, unless they have no control whatsoever. And even the American players like Andrew Sisco might have AA/AAA “talent”, but the “type” of pitcher they are (not hard throwers) could play into Noris’s game. I’d put money down that he’s thriving in that league because he never sees a 90mph fastball. Never. And his K rate is still pretty bad.

by azibuck on Oct 25, 2010 10:51 AM EDT reply actions

Interesting guess

No way to know for sure (right now anyway), but it makes sense.

by JRoth95 on Oct 25, 2010 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions

LaRoach

Nothing wrong with his health, he swings a bat like I swing a golf club, trying to hit to the moon on every swing, you can’t swing as hard as he does and have something wrong with you. .

by leadoff on Oct 25, 2010 11:49 AM EDT reply actions

Have you ever hurt your lower back? I can barely get my deadlift over 250 anymore because of a prior back injury. It’s crippling.

Thank you Ned Colletti.

by ryebr3ad on Oct 25, 2010 3:10 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions

Truth

I hurt my back about 4 years ago now, and I still have issues running or hurdling

The glare of the spotlight is harsh, and the pressure that success breeds immense. We revere our heroes, but expect much. And criticism can come as easily as praise.

by glass0941 on Oct 25, 2010 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions

agree on the back theory

I feel bad for LaRoche — he gets nothing but raves as a positive person and a hard worker. It’s unfortunate he’s seen a precipitous decline at a crucial point in his career. I have to think his back is more of an issue than people realize. Even if he doesn’t cut it as a major leaguer, most players with his pedigree and skill do not so precipitously drop off the cliff. His bat won’t even cut it for AAAA right now.

I thought he’d seize the opportunity presented at 2B when the Pirates dealt Sanchez, if not last year at least this year when Alvarez came up. If you asked anyone on BD who was more likely to stick at 2B, I doubt anyone would have picked Walker over LaRoche.

by chicos_pants on Oct 25, 2010 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions

Is this

a physical thing (back/swing) or a mental thing? If it’s either, would LaRoche admit to either?

Pirates, Vikings, Hokies. I'm used to heartbreak. At least I have the Penguins....

"When I put on my uniform, I feel I am the proudest man on earth."
-The Great One

by blackjackfishtaco on Oct 25, 2010 2:59 PM EDT reply actions

Probably not....

I would imagine most athletes are afraid to mention either a physical or mental ailment because they are so fearful of being passed by. Plus, I don’t picture Andy as the type of guy who would come out and make excuses for his poor play.

The sad thing in all of this (not to completely write LaRoche off yet), but this has to be a cautionary tale, a reminder that sometimes the greatest minor league numbers may not translate into major league success (of course, the flip side is true, some guys struggle in the minors, but figure it out if they reach the majors – though that scenario happens a lot less.)

Just remember, LaRoche hit 23 HRs in his first season of pro ball, and 30 in his second. And carried a .300 average, with HRs in the high teens to low 20’s all throughout the rest of his minor league career.

That’s why I always try to temper my enthusiasm when I see minor league stats of the current Pirates prospects. And it certainly makes McCutchen & Tabata’s immediate major league success all the more amazing. Not to mention, Neil Walker’s quick ascension when getting a chance to start everyday, and Alvarez too, even though he struggled a bit in that first month, to start hitting the ball well after that in your rookie year, is still remarkable!!

by impliedi on Oct 25, 2010 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions

i dont think anyone truly wants to write off Laroche

mainly because they dont want another joeybats situation on their hands. but andy probably would be gone unless he was putting up those stellar minor league numbers anyway. pedro MIGHT have been moved to 1B, but doubtful.

by white angus on Oct 26, 2010 8:45 AM EDT reply actions

If LaRoche had hit well, I’d imagine they could have put him at 2B with Walker in the OF. Tabata would have gotten the call in August then.

by Adam Reynolds on Oct 27, 2010 3:27 AM EDT up reply actions

sounds about right to me

by white angus on Oct 28, 2010 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions

Lastings Milledge

reported to Venezuela over the weekend. He’s not supposed to start playing in games until next week, but showed up a little early to try to get acclimated and get to know the team and the facilities. He said he thought he might have changed his game too much this year and gave up too many ABs trying to move runners and stuff like that. He wanted to play over the winter to try to get back to being himself, whatever that means.

by ElDuce on Oct 26, 2010 11:25 AM EDT reply actions

by BarryJT on Oct 27, 2010 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions

milledge will get another shot

but he’ll be on a short leash. I remember his ABs early in the year- he was absolutely stinging the ball, but straight at fielders. If he can get some loft on his swings, he might do a lot better.

by BurgherKing on Oct 26, 2010 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions