In defense of the Pittsburgh Pirates.
I feel like defending the Pittsburg Pirates for a moment. The Pirates were once a completely inept run franchise, run afoul with poor management and absolutely terrible luck. 2002 MLB draft; The Pirates select the man Baseball America says has the best breaking ball in the draft. They needed to make sure they could sign the #1 overall pick. BJ Upton, Prince Fielder and Zack Greinke all have signing issues, so they went a different direction. It took this man till August of this year to get his first major league win for the Kansas City Royals. Coming off a 100 lose season is didn't get any better for the Pirates. Draft picks like Paul Maholm, Neil Walker, Brad Walker and Daniel Maskos weren't panning out like #1 picks should. Eventually they traded Brian Giles for Jason Bay , then Jason Bay for a pile of crap (Craig Hansen anyone?).
Look at the 2009 Wikipedia entry to see just how bad this team is: "The team shed payroll and traded away players for prospects. On June 3, the team's only 2008 All-Star Nate McLouth was traded to the Atlanta Braves for prospects Jeff Locke, Charlie Morton and Gorkys Hernández.[23] On June 30, the team dealt Nyjer Morgan and Sean Burnett to the Washington Nationals, as well as sending utility player Eric Hinske to the New York Yankees. This upset some Pirates players, including Adam LaRoche and Jack Wilson, who questioned the direction of the team.[24] LaRoche was later traded to the Red Sox in exchange for minor leaguers Hunter Strickland and Argenis Díaz.[25] On July 29, Wilson was traded to the Seattle Mariners in exchange for shortstop Ronny Cedeño and Minor League players Jeff Clement, Aaron Pribanic, Brett Lorin, and Nathan Adcock. The same day, the Pirates traded Sanchez to the San Francisco Giants in exchange for Tim Alderson.[26] On July 30, the Pirates traded pitchers John Grabow and Tom Gorzelanny to the Chicago Cubs in exchange for Kevin Hart, and minor leaguers José Ascanio and Josh Harrison.[27] On September 7, 2009, the Pittsburgh Pirates were defeated by the Chicago Cubs 4-2. The loss was the Pirates' 82nd of the year, and it clinched for them the longest streak of consecutive losing seasons in any North American professional sport.[13]" All they did was move players and lose.
The Pirates, to me, are the inverse of the Milwaukee Brewers. Looking back at past drafts, the Brewers got impact players while the pirates got role players. And you can't field a decent team with role players. While they were getting Bullington, the Brewers were getting Prince Fielder, or Ryan Braun instead of Andrew McCutchens. The Brewers spent when they had a chance to win, the Pirates haven't had that chance yet. The Pirates just don't have the players to field a winning team. GM Neil Huntington is throwing crap at a wall and seeing if anything sticks. He unloaded Jason Bay a season too soon, but soon Jason was on the DL like every other Mets player. He got rid of Nate McLouth, who now resides in AAA for the Braves. They spent in the top 10 in signing bonuses for rookies in this past draft, signed two Indian pitchers from a TV show in India, and built a Dominican clinic to help attract ballplayers. But this team, currently, is loaded with decent players that would be hard pressed to get to .500 with Jason Bay and Nate McLouth and anyone else they traded away. I don't think they're losing to make money, I think they're just losing because they're terrible.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of the managing editor (Charlie) or SB Nation. FanPosts are written by Bucs Dugout readers.
45 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
jason bay for a pile of crap.
now im gonna wait for the snide remarks to this statement… and i will cherish them while i sit in my recliner, with my crappy snuggie wrapped around my fat ass.
He unloaded Jason Bay a season too soon
better a season too soon than a season too late. And with Bryan Morris still to come, that trade could turn out to be not so bad, or at worst, not a complete loss.
I agree with your take on the draft. I believe the last three drafts have brought in legitimate impact players in Alvarez, Sanchez and Taillon
I'm not sure I'm ready to call Sanchez an impact player.
Above-average catcher, probably, but impact player? Ehhhhh…we’ll see if he can keep putting up an OPS in the .860 range in AA before I’m willing to say he might me an impact guy. College hitters almost universally do well in A-ball.
www.stealingfirstbase.com
Well there better be some icing or it’s going to leave a dry taste in my mouth.
by MarkInDallas on Oct 9, 2010 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions
Sure, and there’s always a debate about how much of an impact a defensively-minded catcher can have on a team because catcher defense is so hard to quantify. Is Yadier Molina an impact player? Depends on who you ask. So I prefer to stick to what we CAN know for sure. If Sanchez turns out to be a decent hitter and plays good defense at the C position, I think he’s a good prospect. If he hits and defends well, I’ll call him an impact player.
www.stealingfirstbase.com
Don't look at past drafts.
They are bad for the heart. Literally, my heart stops for a second when I say “Why didn’t we get Heyward? Oh, because we drafted Moskos.” Luckily, our past few drafts have been rather productive, so we should see some improvement in the coming years, provided Huntington isn’t fired and his replacement ships the farm for a sack of peanuts and skunked beer.
I think it’s unfair, though, to say Huntington is “throwing crap at the wall and seeing if anything sticks.” Instead, I counter that he is trying to stockpile as much talent as possible (mostly pitching) because there is no guarantee that every “can’t miss” prospect or high upside draft pick is going to make the majors and succeed. It takes time and some controversial moves, which is something he had and did.
Overall, I liked what you wrote, even though it read like a backhanded compliment. That Wiki article pisses me off because it makes McLouth sound like a superstar when he was just the best player on a bad team.
Pirates, Vikings, Hokies. I'm used to heartbreak. At least I have the Penguins....
"When I put on my uniform, I feel I am the proudest man on earth."
-The Great One
by blackjackfishtaco on Oct 7, 2010 1:01 PM EDT reply actions
I don't know...
at the major league level…it certainly looks like NH has “thrown crap at the wall and seeing if anything sticks”. Any successful players have been in the minors when acquired (excepting Hanrahan). And even then, the success has been minimal.
I was speaking mostly about the minor league level, though you are correct about the MLB level.
Pirates, Vikings, Hokies. I'm used to heartbreak. At least I have the Penguins....
"When I put on my uniform, I feel I am the proudest man on earth."
-The Great One
by blackjackfishtaco on Oct 7, 2010 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Everyone had Wieters above Heyward, too.
Well, almost everyone.
Just think, if we had drafted who the experts liked we could have a marginal starting catcher instead of a minor league relief pitcher!
I kid, I kid. I still think there’s time for Wieters to turn into an impact player (though the sky is obviously not the limit anymore, and it’s pretty hard to argue he’ll be better than Heyward at this point.)
www.stealingfirstbase.com
as good as heyward is...
is he even the best talent from that draft? anyone think they would take mike stanton over him??? im thinking that i would.
That draft looks loaded now. Moustakas, Porcello, Arencibia tore up the minors this season, obviously Price and Wieters, maybe Bumgarner, Brackman, Jordan Zimmerman, Freddie Freeman on the Braves (we took Duke Welker before Freeman and Stanton).
by Adam Reynolds on Oct 9, 2010 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions
It was...
actually a repost of something my friend wrote on digg or reddit, and I was curious what the pirates community thought of it. And my recliner is quite comfortable.
Cited it, even.
Also, fun fact: studies have shown that Wikipedia is only marginally less accurate than World Book and the Britannica.
www.stealingfirstbase.com
Let me understand this...
You say you are defending the Pirates? What actually did you say in defense of them?
Andrew Mccutchen is
a top 5 CF in most categories. It’s a pretty big stretch to call him a “roll player.” He was a top 25 prospect most every year he was in the minors. He is also much younger than Braun and Fielder. I could see complaining about some draft choices, but Cutch at 11 was not a bad one.
+1
Cutch at 11 may have been the only good first-round pick Littlefield made.
Also, we couldn’t have taken Braun in that draft even if we wanted him over McCutchen. The Brewers already drafted Braun 6 picks earlier. (And 2 picks before Braun? JEFF CLEMENT!)
Even with the benefit of hindsight, there’s really nobody that went in the first round after McCutchen that I’d want instead aside from MAYBE Matt Garza. There are some players close in talent (Colby Rasmus, Jacoby Ellsbury, Jay Bruce), but ultimately I like Cutch a sliver more than all of them.
www.stealingfirstbase.com
I might like Bruce more than Cutch because of that +20 defense, but Garza is a good distance behind and Ellsbury isn’t even close.
by Adam Reynolds on Oct 9, 2010 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions
If there’s anyone I’d trade Cutch out for it would be Bruce, and I think Bruce is a hell of a ball player. However, Bruce doesn’t have a +20 defense, it’s closer to +10 so far.
He also looked more like a decent player with huge potential until he broke out this year. Cutch hit the ground running and has yet to have a real “break out” season.
We’ll see which player ends up being better. It could very well be Bruce, as he’s a phenomenal talent in his own right. But in the end I like Cutch just a (VERY!) tiny bit more.
www.stealingfirstbase.com
+20 in LF doesn't = +20 in CF...
but I get your point; Cutch has some room for improvement on defense.
Maybe Bruce’s 20 (30 combined past 2 seasons), is just due to alignment/positioning…
/excuse-making
by Adam Reynolds on Oct 10, 2010 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I really hate to be rude . . .
This is no doubt well-intentioned, but does anyone ever think it’s just a tad presumptuous to log into a Pirates blog -where there are literally hundreds of articles about every single point of minutia you can imagine- and recap the recent history of the club for us?
I’d be like going to pitchfork.com and starting with, “Well, back in the 1960s, a few musicians named Bob Dylan and the Beatles made some pretty good records that ended up having a long-term impact on popular music.”
This is no doubt well-intentioned
I, myself, suffer doubts.
by WTM on Oct 7, 2010 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Apparently the big question was
Are the Pirates losing to make money? For someone who seriously feels the need to answer that question, this might be considered a lucid answer.
This is one of the 20 worst posts of the year
Anyone disagree? I would have said 10 worst but we have had a lot of trolls.
BFD1...dang this keyboard...sweetleb...crap these fumbling fingers again...Marquiladora...whew, got it right finally:
Basically it seems to me you’re saying the Pirates traded some pretty crappy players for the most part in the hopes of getting something a little less crappy. They succeeded in a few cases, while others seem not to have worked out. Tell us something new….
“Looking back at past drafts, the Brewers got impact players while the pirates got role players.”
The Brewers did some good things with the draft, but I bet they won’t be able to keep some of their best players after next year.
They sure as hell wasted a ton of money on veteranosity starters.
And now that they definitely need to be going all out in the draft to make sure they have plenty of quality in their farm system, IIRC they didn’t spend but a Danny Moskos bonus on their 2010 guys without a 1st rounder. (Somebody correct me if I’m wrong.)
The Pirates have been dealing-mostly badly-with the so-called current system for 30 years, IMO. We’ll find a way to win a couple years. How much longer we can keep the team together remains to be seen, and will hinge in large part on the club continually going to great lengths to have the best drafts and int’l signings possible.
new orleans saints Jerseys
http://www.sportsjerseysshop.com
Our website is persisting on best customer service. Please come and enjoy it!
We only provide AAA quality of products. You can make purchases without scrupulosity. All of products can be ordered from our website directly, also, you can contact our professional customer service to get more new orleans saints Jerseys about payment terms, the intention of cooperation etc. The most preferential price: Our competitive price make our customers confident to develop their own business, at the same time, reaping big benefit from this transaction. Our favor tends to the customers who are from United States, Britain, France, Spain, Germany and Australia etc.
Really -
Has ANYone bought ANYthing from any of these spam ads? Is it really worth their time to keep doing it? [shakes head] Amazing.
Although I will be trying to incorporate the phrase “without scrupulosity” into my lexicon.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Oct 10, 2010 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Sorry Cocktails
Last week I bought a bunch of stuff from them in hopes they would just go away. Do you think I made a mistake?
by MarkInDallas on Oct 11, 2010 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions
heh
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Oct 12, 2010 1:58 AM EDT up reply actions
So any post not saying
The Pirates suck, they are pocketing all that Yankee money or Sail the team is considered defending them????

by 
















