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Around SBN: Lakers Should Trade Andrew Bynum So He Doesn't Go To Waste

You know what would be even more fairerer?


Bud Selig, to the AP:

Star-divide

"Is eight out of 30 [teams in the playoffs] enough? Is that fair? And that's the basic question here, at least for me."

Asked his opinion of 10 playoff teams, Selig responded, "It's more fair than eight."

"Two more would give us 10, and 10 out of 30 I still think is a rational mix."

Dear Bud: You know what would be MOST fair? 30 teams in the playoffs, and Game 7 of the World Series on New Year's Day! Why should football have all the fun?

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of the managing editor (Charlie) or SB Nation. FanPosts are written by Bucs Dugout readers.

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That would increase the chances of a no Red Sox or Yankees playoffs. That would be a disaster that no one could deal with.

I think we should expand to 12 teams in the playoffs, but the Yanks, Bo Sox, Angels, Cubs, Dodgers and the Mets get in every year automatically. That would be perfect.

by Wizard of Woz on Nov 1, 2010 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

Fairer to who?

Surely not to the players whose salaries have been capped.

by maguro on Nov 1, 2010 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

those players will survive

if Kobe Bryant can be capped, so can Albert Pujols

by white angus on Nov 1, 2010 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh, I'm sure they'll survive

Not worried about that. But the question is whether it’s “fair” to take some of Albert’s money and give it to Pedro Feliz or let the Cardinals bank it. That’s a completely different question.

by maguro on Nov 1, 2010 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Albert doesn’t earn anything without the Pedro Feliz’ of the world. Albert would earn more when more teams are competitive, increasing attendance and TV ratings, therefore increasing the pie and any salary cap.

by BarryJT on Nov 2, 2010 12:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

Albert would earn more when more teams are competitive, increasing attendance and TV ratings, therefore increasing the pie and any salary cap.

I’m not necessarily convinced that this is true.

by Vlad on Nov 2, 2010 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

If the cap is based on league revenues then the players (not necessarily the ones at the top) will benefit from a more competitive league due to increased attendance. But, I disagree that the Pujols’ and ARods would see a benefit from a salary cap/floor.

Put on your dancin' shoes.

by PensFan024 on Nov 2, 2010 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not even necessarily convinced...

…that a more competitive league would lead to an increase in overall league revenues. It might be the case, but it might also not be.

by Vlad on Nov 2, 2010 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

i have no sympathy

for someone who is making 25 mill per year having their pay docked to 15 mill per year. none whatsoever. having the yankees spend 200 mill every year and buy up all the good players in not in any way, shape, or form good for the game.

by theatrain on Nov 1, 2010 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

You’d feel different if you were the one being docked $10M.

by maguro on Nov 1, 2010 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Of course, the Alberts of the world would still get their 25 million dollars, if that’s what you are worried about. It would be the mid level veterans that would get squeezed as teams would rather have kids under control at rock bottom salaries rather than 8 million a year veterans. That way they could still afford Albert or ARod.

by BarryJT on Nov 2, 2010 12:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

still not 100% true

NBA players have maximum salaries, not just the teams

by white angus on Nov 2, 2010 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

It would be the mid level veterans that would get squeezed as teams would rather have kids under control at rock bottom salaries rather than 8 million a year veterans.

Only because the draft (and the years of control that accompany it) artificially depress the market for young players, though. In a purely free market, the drop in prices for mid-market veterans would be accompanied by a rise in prices for young talent.

by Vlad on Nov 2, 2010 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

But free markets only exist in micro economic textbooks….

by BarryJT on Nov 2, 2010 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

+1

www.stealingfirstbase.com

by Nate Rose on Nov 2, 2010 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

No

My job is basically indentured servitude. Playing a game and making a living at it is not.

by Wizard of Woz on Nov 2, 2010 8:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yes, it is.

As recently as 50 years ago, players generally didn’t earn enough to keep from having to work outside jobs over the offseason. Richie Hebner dug graves, for example.

You may not enjoy your job, but you very likely have the right to quit and seek employment elsewhere if at any given time it becomes too much for you to take. MLB players don’t have that right. They’re locked in with the franchise that drafts them for between six and sixteen years (depending on how and when they’re added to the roster). If they want to move to another city and work for a team in that city, too bad. If they want to stay where they are, and they get promoted or demoted or traded, that’s also too bad. And if they decide to leave the US industry entirely and work for a foreign competitor without first consulting their current organization and giving them a fat payoff, they get blackballed from the US company for life.

In the pre-union days, players had it even worse. At least now, they eventually acquire some measure of control over where they work. Back then, due to the reserve clause, a team owned a player until it no longer had any use for him.

by Vlad on Nov 2, 2010 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

I have a non-compete clause in my contract, so I cannot just leave and work for another company in my field. I can leave my field, and work a similar job, but isn’t that like changing sports? I signed the contract because I needed a job and I can deal with the negative parts.
Also, my contract is not guaranteed. If I perform poorly, I will be fired. If MLB players wanted the flexibility to change place and teams, they could sign one year contracts. There is much more risk there, but you gain the freedom to make your own choices. They give up that freedom in exchange for better compensation and a guarantee of pay for multiple years without any risk of termination during the contract, no matter the level of performance. The players carry virtually no risk after signing a multi-year contract. The owners accept all the risk in those contracts yet they are vilified.

by Wizard of Woz on Nov 2, 2010 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

You can't sign one year contracts...

until you are a free agent. In most cases, as Vlad has pointed out, you are at the mercy of the team for at least six seasons.

by Slick1 on Nov 2, 2010 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

I have a non-compete clause in my contract, so I cannot just leave and work for another company in my field.

Then you should be able to empathize with the players. Most people don’t have one of these. Doesn’t it chafe, having to give up that freedom?

If MLB players wanted the flexibility to change place and teams, they could sign one year contracts.

Coming out of the draft, the team drafting you controls your rights for between six and sixteen years, as I said earlier (depending on when you’re rostered and where the team places you during your option years). A one-year contract at that point is not an option.

[Explaining the “sixteen years” thing: Seven years in the minors (not impossible for a foreign teen or high school pick), rostered immediately before the deadline for minor league free agency, three option years in the minors, three years of minimum salary in the majors, three arb years in the majors. If you signed at 18, you hit free agency for the first time at 34.]

The owners accept all the risk in those contracts yet they are vilified.

The owners are vilified because they are part of a legally-sanctioned cartel, protected from antitrust legislation by an accident of history. As such, they’re able to grossly exploit a ballplayer in his first years as a pro, before he reaches free agency.

by Vlad on Nov 2, 2010 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

As for the "playing a game thing"...

Players are entertainers, just like singers or actors. They get high salaries because the type of entertainment that they use their unique skills to provide is highly popular, and brings a ton of money into the industry. Is A-Rod less deserving of $20M a year than, say, the Rolling Stones, or Johnny Depp?

To say nothing of the fact that any money that doesn’t go to the players would just go back into the pockets of the owners. Who is more deserving of that money – the guys who put on the show, or the cartel members who sat in the owner’s box and just watched the money roll in?

Now, if you think there’s too much money in the industry as a whole, and that things were better when nobody was rich, that’s fine – but if so, you should probably stop patronizing MLB and adding to the problem. It’s a profit-making enterprise, and so they’re all going to try and earn a profit.

by Vlad on Nov 2, 2010 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

Heh.

I don’t see it as much anymore, I guess we’ve kind of become used to $20 mil/year contracts, but there used to be an annual rite among sports writers and columnists to decide which athletes made “too much money.” (Or, for that matter, to decry that athletes in general make “too much money”).

The implied question there that nobody, and I mean NObody, ever answered was, “If if you think Player X makes too much money, then tell me how much SHOULD he make? Give me an exact number. What are 30 home run worth to you, versus 25, versus 20, versus 10? What’s a 3.50 ERA worth, versus 4.00, versus 4.50? Not to mention WHIPs and stolen abses and defense and everything else that factors into making a player a player. What’s YOUR price tag on him?”

I think if you insist on raising that issue, you should be obligated to answer my question. And, of course, no one ever did.

by bucdaddy on Nov 2, 2010 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

Sports payouts are just a matter of supply and demand.

Example (though from a different sports because I don’t know the MLB numbers): Only roughly 3% of high school football players will ever play a single down in the NFL. As you move up the chain, the field gets more narrow. Most high school football players aren’t good enough to get athletic scholarships. What’s more, you can be an awesome football player, but unable to get a scholarship due to academics.

Out of college football players, only 224 are drafted each year, plus a few for compensatory picks and the undrafted free agents.

Of those signed to NFL contracts, an average NFL career is only 3-4 seasons, due to both injury and ability gaps.

All that considered, there’s a very high demand for a very low supply of players like, say, Peyton Manning, Troy Polamalu or Andre Johnson. It’s only natural that salaries would be very high for those who are the very best of the very best of people with an incredibly rare skill set.

www.stealingfirstbase.com

by Nate Rose on Nov 2, 2010 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

I would like to add to Vlad’s comment that the players salaries are really based on what a player brings in. Many people forget this when they point out that a player’s stats don’t justify their salary. But, if an ancient Ken Griffey Jr. puts more butts in the seats, sells a few more jerseys, and gets more folks to tune in on TV/Radio then he is worth his salary. The players that are truly overpaid are the league minimum no name vets who draw zero interest to the team and the only value they can possibly add is on the field.

I do have to disagree with calling the owners cartel members. They do assume all the risk of running a business and as such deserve to reap the benefits of owning that business.

Put on your dancin' shoes.

by PensFan024 on Nov 2, 2010 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

But, if an ancient Ken Griffey Jr. puts more butts in the seats, sells a few more jerseys, and gets more folks to tune in on TV/Radio then he is worth his salary.

This is a good point. For another example, look at this offseason’s discussions as to how much the Yankees should offer Jeter, a player of diminished (and diminishing) physical skills, but substantial marketing value.

I do have to disagree with calling the owners cartel members. They do assume all the risk of running a business and as such deserve to reap the benefits of owning that business.

MLB’s owners meet the dictionary definition of a cartel. They’re a confederation of independent operators within an industry who collaborate in order to fix prices and restrict market competition to the point of monopoly. There’s nothing untoward about the situation – they’re permitted to do so because of MLB’s antitrust exemption. But if they were run under the rules that all other American businesses have to follow, things like team-specific territorial restrictions would have to be dropped (to name just one example).

by Vlad on Nov 2, 2010 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

A-Rod is certainly less valuable to society than Keith Richards.

by BarryJT on Nov 2, 2010 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Rec'd.

Free your ass and your mind will follow.

by cocktailsfor2 on Nov 3, 2010 8:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

Never happen, but I'd love to see it go the other way..

No divisions, just an AL and an NL, an ALCS and an NLCS.

An ALCS and an NLCS 9 game series, and then a 9 game series for the World Series.

by jlk9697 on Nov 1, 2010 12:33 PM EDT reply actions  

??

If you have no divisions, how do you decide the second team for the LCS? The second-best team in each league? If they weren’t good enough to pass the first-place team over a 162-game regular season, why should they get to go to the WS based on beating them in a best-of-nine series?

If, however, what you meant was no division series, with an Eastern and Western Division in each league, with the division winners playing in an LCS, and those winners going to the WS – like back before the abomination of three divisions per league and wild cards – then I agree with you totally.

by DG Lewis on Nov 1, 2010 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

A salary cap would be great, because it would reveal Sabean, Cashman, Amaro, and Hendry to be the mediocre GMs they are. It’s not right that you can get away with the Rowand, Zito, Burnett, Ibanez, Soriano, Zambrano, and soon to be Howard deals without suffering the consequences. If Huntington did that, the Pirates would take five years to get back to square one.

I think eight teams would be just fine. Each division’s top two, plus two wild cards get in from each league.

by Suffering Buc on Nov 1, 2010 12:40 PM EDT reply actions  

No, No, No...

you read it very wrong (I think, unless I did?)

The “eight teams” is what we have now. Eight teams total, not eight teams per league. Selig’s expansion would just be one additional playoff team per league (i.e. one more wild card each).

You’re talking about putting 16 of the 30 teams in the playoffs, what is this, hockey?!

by jlk9697 on Nov 1, 2010 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Seems like

that’s Selig’s model. If 10 is more fair than eight, then 16 is more fair than 10, right?

But really, like with every other sport, Selig and MLB will do whatever TV tells them to do. If TV wants another round of playoffs and wants best of seven instead of best of five, TV will get another round of playoffs and best of seven. And too bad if they’re playing in 20 degrees and snow on Thanksgiving Day like the effing Green Bay Packers, that’s another four hours of air time TV doesn’t have to fill with something expensive to produce, so what does TV care?

by bucdaddy on Nov 1, 2010 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was thinking a hockey format, yeah, but I know that’s a pipedream.

by Suffering Buc on Nov 1, 2010 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

What about just copying NFL’s playoff system? It would require AL expansion and realignment into 4 divisions per league, but you kill two birds with one stone: More playoff teams and thinner divisions/more WC births mean good teams in good divisions get in more often.

Not original, but it seems reasonable. Even going up to 8 might be too much, unless you’re going to consider shortening the regular season.

by downandout on Nov 1, 2010 1:17 PM EDT reply actions  

Think I read

that the union has given indications it would be willing to make that trade. Teams that don’t get in the playoffs, of course, would get screwed revenue-wise in that they’d have fewer home dates to sell.

by bucdaddy on Nov 1, 2010 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

8 per league (16 total) is entirely too many

two of the many things i hate about the NBA (and the NHL for that matter) are the facts that the playoffs last 2 months, and that teams with losing records get into the playoffs. i like the the two divisions idea; two winners and two wild cards. keep it to four teams and get the playoffs over with by november first.

by theatrain on Nov 1, 2010 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Heh...

I recd this for the title alone. Very funny. Reminds me of the South Park when the ripped on the Davinci Code: “look closer…” “now look closlier…,” “now looke even more closlier!”

by Slick1 on Nov 1, 2010 3:32 PM EDT reply actions  

Fun idea.

Didn’t the Minnesota North Stars have a regular season losing record when they faced the Penguins back in the early 90’s for the Stanley Cup?

“I’m Joe Buck and with me is Tim McCarver for December baseball! Yes, it’s time for the National League Championship Series. The winner will spend Christmas weekend in New Orleans playing to win the World Series!”

by IAPiratesFan on Nov 1, 2010 8:24 PM EDT reply actions  

here's hoping

Tim McCarver has long retired by then.

by theatrain on Nov 1, 2010 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

While you're at it, Bud,

here’s another dumb idea. Let’s have split seasons, the second half of 201x and the first half of 201y., and play the World Series in July, in warm weather, where it belongs. Then immediately play three months of the next season. Then take a six-month break, during which teams can do all the off-season roster-revamping shenanigans they want, only now they’d be MIDseason shenanigans. Hell, you can come back in April with an entirely new team and try to win the second half if the first half sucked.

Anything but November baseball. November baseball is an abomination unto the Lord.

by bucdaddy on Nov 1, 2010 8:47 PM EDT reply actions  

It would be fairerist to include some Triple-A and NPB teams, as well.

by Adam Reynolds on Nov 2, 2010 1:47 AM EDT reply actions  

Somewhat off topic.

I loved it last night when Buck and McCarver looked back at 1954. One of the statements (and graphics) they made was that there were no teams in 1954 west of the Mississippi River. What was so hilarious…was that Buck was raised in St. Louis…and McCarver was born and raised in Memphis…and played a significant portion of his career in St. Louis. They both know that St. Louis is west of the Mississippi River (granted, the stadia have been less than a mile from the river). Yet…like good sheep…they read the info that the “researchers” gave them.

Most announcers…I wouldn’t have expected to catch that little wrinkle…but those two…when they get touted as the best (not that they are the best)…

by Thunder on Nov 2, 2010 11:03 AM EDT reply actions  

I do not understand

how McCarver still has an announcing gig.

by theatrain on Nov 2, 2010 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

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