Pirates Sign Wil Ledezma, Outright Clement, Moss
by David Todd on Nov 3, 2010 5:07 PM EDT
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PrintJohn Perrotto & Jenifer Langosch have both reported that the Pirates have signed LHP Wil Ledezma in order to avoid arbitration. At the same time the team outrighted Jeff Clement, Sean Gallagher, Steven Jackson, Brandon Moss and Justin Thomas to Indianapolis. All are off the 40-man roster as a result, as is Chan Ho Park who is an unrestricted free agent.
Ross Ohlendorf, Jose Ascanio and Steve Pearce were all also reinstated to the 40-man from the 60-day disabled list.
I like the Ledezma signing, although I have yet to see the numbers. The deal is for one year and I would imagine that he will make something in the neighborhood of $800K-$1 million, which is similar to what the Bucs paid Javier Lopez last year.
UPDATE by Charlie: Moss, Jackson and Thomas can all now become minor-league free agents. Gallagher can as well, although the Pirates will try to keep him. Clement will stay with the organization but be eligible for the Rule 5 draft; it wouldn't be a shock to see some team take him, and he's reaching the point where if he isn't capable of sticking on a roster the whole year anyway, he probably won't ever be. The big name the Pirates risk losing is Moss, obviously, but his Class AAA season wasn't nearly as impressive as a casual glance at the stats made it look, and there were a bunch of players ahead of him. I think he could be a helpful bench outfielder for someone, but I'm not going to worry too much if in fact he does end up leaving.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of the managing editor (Charlie) or SB Nation. FanPosts are written by Bucs Dugout readers.
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good for ledezma
a good job by the FO to bring him in and then give him a chance.
it will probably make charlie happy too.
Good decision
Ledezma should be a valuable member of the ’pen.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
That makes the 40 man roster 38…and no one to bring off the DL. However…we still have to decide which newly eligible players to protect for the Rule 5 draft…so I wouldn’t be surprised if the 40 man gets thinned a little more.
They activated him...
a couple of weeks ago…when they did the same for Veal…Aguero…Gorkys and Morris.
Interesting.
I’m surprised that Moss got the boot. They must not have liked what they saw during his callup. Can’t disagree with the decision, though.
Hope we can hang onto Gallagher. I still like him as a dark horse for the rotation.
he:s the only one of those
i could see getting taken in the Rule 5 draft. i hope he stays, if for nothing more than the sledge-o-matic references in the game threads.
Clement
dissapointed he had to go, he could possibly get claimed in the Rule 5 draft
by 2010 will be the year on Nov 3, 2010 6:22 PM EDT reply actions
Langosch says no...
on minor league free agency. He doesn’t have 6 years minor league service time (but he’s not far off). I’m pretty sure he’s eligible for the Rule 5.
same here, Dissapointed is the key word
just so much power potential, i hope one day he finds it
Yes and no. Clement has that power build, but his minor league numbers going into 2010 weren’t impressive for a 1B. I didn’t expect much.
by Adam Reynolds on Nov 4, 2010 12:19 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Francis may have hurt himself at the end of the year.
His numbers fell off a cliff all of a sudden.
I like the kid, but they better do their DD if they want to sign him.
Francis
I watched one game where the stadium guy has his fastball at 85, 86.
That's actually pretty typical for him.
He’s been right around 86 with the FB for several years now.
Here’s the bit that worries me: He goes on the DL with soreness in his shoulder near the end of the season, a shoulder on which he’s had surgery in the past. He comes off the DL, makes three starts and one relief appearance, and gets smacked around in all four. 8.49 ERA in 11 2/3 IP, with hitters putting up a .375/.407/.661 line against him in that time.
It could be that the Rockies rushed him back from his rehab for the playoff chase and that he’ll be fine, or that he just happened to have a few bad games, but all the same I’d look at that shoulder very carefully before getting his name on a contract.
Vlad
You are right about the velocity. But it looked like me throwing in the backyard.
You have to be real careful with that speed because you fall quickly.
Then you throw in an injury history. I’d be pretty cautious.
Aaron Harang?
Wonder how likely it is for him to bounce back a bit.
I would love to have him just to hear Harang-otang every time he pitches. Makes me chuckle.
by Wizard of Woz on Nov 4, 2010 8:32 AM EDT up reply actions
I think he's a decent bet to rebound.
His skills are in decline, of course, but there’s still enough there at this point to reward a prudent investment.
i've been betting on a Harang bounce back since 2008
it just hasn’t happened, and it has been tough to watch.
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."
-President Andrew Jackson
by justin007000 on Nov 8, 2010 12:44 AM EST up reply actions
Agreed....
see if you can get Young, Francis, Harang to camp. I’m sure they will all have some suitors so this is where scouting is at a premium. Hope we did our work. Think the Rockies might look to re-sign Francis to a cheaper deal.
The Hammer Speaks
Twitter: @hammerspeaks
Yeah. They might be just as likely as Maholm/Duke to pitch poorly, though, and with more injury risk on top.
by Adam Reynolds on Nov 3, 2010 8:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Choices, choices
The Pirates still need to clear about 3-5 roster spaces by Nov. 19, when rosters have to be set for the Rule 5 draft. Take your pick:
Brian Burres
Zach Duke
Jeff Karstens
Chris Leroux
Joe Martinez
Dan McCutchen
Jason Jaramillo
Argenis Diaz
Andy LaRoche
Delwyn Young
I don’t see anybody here whose departure would negatively impact the W/L record at any point. They could also try to sneak Ascanio, Aguero or Hart through waivers.
I'm not sure of everyone's contract situation
But I’d be willing to bet you could take most of these guys off of the 40 man roster and they would be safe.
Of the above group, I think Burres, Duke, Karstens, Jaramillo, LaRoche and Young would be able to declare free agency. Maybe Ascanio and Hart, too, which means they wouldn’t try to sneak them through waivers.
by WTM on Nov 3, 2010 9:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Definite Rule 5 protection guys would be Locke, Marte, and Owens. I guess Moskos, Moreno, and Watson would be likely as well. If they want to take a player in the draft as well I would start by clearing out Leroux, Burres, Martinez, Diaz, and Jaramillo. That would clear up the spaces to get the draft out of the way. If they plan to non-tender Duke I’d let him walk earlier than the deadline. The other guys can be cleared out as spots are needed.
I’d say these guys would be potential roster additions, with * meaning a lock:
Eric Fryer
Brian Friday
Starling Marte*
Jeff Locke*
Rudy Owens*
Mike Crotta
Tony Watson
Nate Adcock
Brian Leach
Dan Moskos*
Diego Moreno*
i disagree on just a couple
fryer, whom i want the pirates to keep but i doubt they 40 man him. crotta, leach and adcock are on the bubble. friday, meh!
Probably right
I know they’ll protect Moskos. But if he was not a first-round pick, I really doubt he would.
I think Watson may be as deserving to have a 40-man spot.
moskos has his velocity in the mid 90's again
hes a lefty. he WILL get selected no matter what round he was drafted.
Angus
I do think Moskos would be picked.
But I guess I’d ask the following questions:
1. Is he worth protecting based on what he did at AAA?
2. Would his loss hurt?
3. Could the roster spot be better used on someone else?
4. Can he really stay on an MLB roster all year?
I’d probably protect him. But I doubt if he were a 35th round pick that anyone would care.
He’s old for AA. He should have dominated. And when he got to Indy he was shelled.
I think we need to be realistic. He’s not ever going to be a closer. John Grabow is his upside.
he barely pitched in AAA. granted, he was bad
but completely dominant in altoona. give him a full season in AAA
I think WTM's five starred players
have to be added, and I think Tony Watson should be added too. I think he could easily be taken nd stashed in someone’s bullpen. I know he’s not an amazing prospect, but he’s an OK one, and I’d like to keep him around. Adcock is also tough to leave off, but he probably wouldn’t be stash-able.
That would mean removing 4 guys:
Burres
Leroux
DY
Jaramillo
I’d also be comfortable removing Dan McCutchen or A. Diaz, to be replaced with Adcock.
Redeemed.
I was never a fan ...
that’s a NH move I didn’t understand.
And the Bucs rarely used him in September to see what they had. Strange.
Angus
I don’t know why the Pirates put in a waiver claim on someone they were going to have to cut from their 40-man roster.
Also, I’m less than impressed with his minor league numbers.
And the team didn’t use him when he was called up.
That all seems weird to me. Not Eveland weird. But still weird.
I think they wanted...
…to have a spare arm on hand for the last couple of weeks, just in case they needed one, and the waiver price was a cheap insurance policy. Whatever you (or they) think of Leroux, he’s better (and more interesting) than Bass, whose roster spot he took.
It was after the roster expansion, after all.
eveland was traded for because we had no depth of starting pitching with MLB experience
i thought that was pretty obvious
Vlad
Remember my comments at the time: It was not a defense of Bass.
Bass is terrible.
But Leroux looked to me like a bad investment at the time. I saw nothing in his minor league numbers to suggest future success.
In fact, I don’t think he’s any better than Jackson, Thomas or any number of guys at AA and AAA.
Just my opinion. But it looked like a waste of money.
The cost was pretty minimal.
Waiver price is $25k. Wasn’t it worth $25k to you to not have to watch Bass pitch any more?
He’s on par with Thomas, but probably one or two cuts above Jackson, IMO.
You are correct ...
that it was an inexpensive, low-risk move.
It’s not one I would have made. I don’t think he’s worth $25,000.
But you do have to put a price on not watching Bass. Yes, I think it’s probably worth it from that perspective.
Leroux has usage restrictions.
Due to his history of arm problems. Isn’t allowed to pitch in back-to-back games, isn’t allowed to work more than one inning at a time, etc.
As such, it would’ve been hard for them to use him too aggressively.
If those restrictions continue...
he wouldn’t be a very useful piece on our roster, considering how often our starters get blown up.
Eh, dunno.
Depends on whether we plan on carrying an eight-man pen again next year, and whether we’re still going to resist using pure situational lefties.
For whatever it's worth...
…Hong-Chih Kuo has similar usage restrictions, and he’s still a valuable part of a good pen in LA.
I'm sure ...
but Vlad it seems like I saw him twice in September.
It was pretty rare.
I’m sure he pitched more. But I didn’t see the team giving him much of a chance.
Checking the game log...
…it looks like we used him six times after the claim, over a period of 2-3 weeks (Sept. 14-Oct. 3). That’s a time frame that covers 19 games.
No, it's not ...
but you could have gotten him for nothing.
Again, just a puzzling move to me. I don’t see why you claim him.
He struggled with Florida. He struggled after he joined Pittsburgh.
He wasn’t that great in the minors. It’s hardly surprising that he wasn’t that great at the MLB level.
Again, just a puzzling move to me. I don’t see why you claim him.
’
You claim him because Bass is really shitty, and you’d rather have a better-than-Bass guy take those innings as you play out the string, and $25k for a waiver claim is nothing compared to the value of not having to watch Bass pitch.
Leroux’s minor league record is, on the whole, strong. He was a little old for his leagues, but given that he was a converted catcher and that he missed a year with TJ, that’s not really his fault. He looks like a perfectly adequate middle reliever, with maybe setup man upside.
Vlad
It’s not like it had to be a Bass v. Leroux. There were other options to getting Bass off the roster.
For example, the Pirates could have brought up an Indy guy.
We’ve had the discussion before. I just don’t think he’s any better than the many minor league free agents who will soon be available.
We’ll see who’s right. But I really, really doubt he’s going to be a set-up man.
There actually wasn't a lot left at Indy at that point.
Best internal option was probably Machi. I wouldn’t have complained if they’d preferred him to Leroux, but on the whole I think Leroux is a little more interesting.
Listen....
if these guys aren’t making our 40 man they aren’t making anyone else’s either. Our talent is still way to young. This is shuffling deck chairs. None of our guys is likely to get picked if we protect the obvious that WTM pointed out.
The Hammer Speaks
Twitter: @hammerspeaks
I think Watson could get picked.
He really tore up lefties this year – a team could easily see him as a good, cheap situational reliever going forward.
Watson is one guy I really wanted to see pitch some in AAA this year, because I think he could have helped the Pirates as a LOOGY as early as the beginning of next season. NH, however, doesn’t like LOOGYs. Even when he signs one, they refuse to use the guy as a LOOGY, which is what happened with Javier Lopez. He’d been a LOOGY his whole career, but Russell used him like any other middle reliever. Then he went back to pitching almost exclusively against LH batters for the Giants and suddenly was lights out. I’m not wild about guys who can only pitch to same-handed batters, but if you’re going to insist on carrying 7 relievers, you can afford a guy like that. He just has to be used right, which was beyond Russell’s minimal capabilities. That’s why Lopez suddenly got so good in SF — Bochy used him correctly.
Anyway, I doubt they’ll even try to push Watson as a LOOGY and, since that’s his best path to the majors, I doubt they’ll put him on the roster.
by WTM on Nov 4, 2010 8:38 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m not wild about guys who can only pitch to same-handed batters, but if you’re going to insist on carrying 7 relievers, you can afford a guy like that.
Yeah, really. The ability to carry specialists is really the only advantage of the bloated modern bullpen. If you’re going to buy into the one, you really ought to buy into the other.
I think it’s a little unfair to lay it all on Russell, though. It’s part of an institutional culture within this team, which preceded both him and NH (though that doesn’t excuse them for not trying to change it, of course).
I’m not laying it all on Russell. As I said, NH doesn’t like the LOOGY concept. He’s flat said so. But I watched Russell manage for three years and he couldn’t tell a platoon advantage from a grocery list. He had the most wooden, un-adaptable approach to bullpen usage I’ve ever seen. He seemed to be stuck in the minor league approach, where you have certain guys scheduled to pitch certain stints on certain days, and any variation throws the schedule off. Staying on that schedule, and having his relievers pitch exactly one inning, no more and no less, every time they pitched, seemed to be his top priority in every game, well ahead of winning the game.
i for one would keep karstens
i still think he can be an asset, be it in long relief or (preferably) as a starter. and maybe young for the bench. other than that, bon voyage.
I'd have to go over the minor league guys, but ...
Duke, Karstens and LaRoche would be the only guys I’d consider keeping on the roster.
I may offer a few a minor league deal.
Also, I agree with Ascanio and Hart. Both are coming back from a devastating injury. I can’t see them doing much until the all-star break at the MLB level.
I like Moss and had hope that he would be an everyday player. But he seemed to have fallen behind Presley and Bowker on the depth chart for LH OF (and that group may include Jones next year and Lambo the year after). I hope he makes it somewhere. I guess I’ll always remember his walk-off HR to beat the Brewers in 2009 (and then how JR sat him on the bench for the next game).
Hopefully Gallagher can come back on a minor-league deal. He didn’t look ready for the Show last season, in my opinion.
He needs reps/innings to work on a consistent delivery.
Short relief was just about the worst role imaginable for him. Irregular work that doesn’t let him iron out his kinks and wastes half his repertoire (he doesn’t have a shutdown pitch, but has four decent ones).
The Triple-A starting rotation next season could be crowded, though.
by Adam Reynolds on Nov 4, 2010 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I think that even long relief...
…would be better for him than the one-inning stints he was getting with us this year.
I can’t remember – is he playing winter ball?
That looks about right ...
if he could ever repeat his delivery consistently, I really think he could be a useful starter.
Rick Ankiel comes to mind. Called up way too soon and walks a lot of guys.
by Adam Reynolds on Nov 5, 2010 10:09 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Gallagher walking ton of guys
Lets see, Gallagher was a reliever with the Pirates and is now starting in the winter lg. Most he had thrown was one inning and at most thirty pitches. Does anybody realize what it takes to get stretched out to be able to throw 80/90 pitches. Do most folks think they can stretch themselves out overnight. If you look at the game summaries closely you will notice most of these walks are coming later in the game as he is tiring out. I to have gotten reports from folks in VZ and velocity is fine and able to throw 4 pitches for strikes. Have also gotten reports that his CB is nasty and with a few more starts the walks should be taper off.
Good to hear.
Hope that’s the way things are. Like I said, I think he could be interesting as a rotation option this spring.
Good to hear
Gallagher tonight in VZ 6IP 0ER 3H 2BB 5K Somewhere around 90 pitches and was keeping hitters offbalance with all his pitches. I can say now that as of 5pm he is a minor lg free agent.
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