SB Nation Pittsburgh Editor's Pick
One (humble) fan's outlook
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 12, 2010 5:28 AM EST
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PrintIt's been a while since I've posted here. I still read from time to time, but the offseason loses my interest some as other sports grab my attention. Well, I'll cut the chit-chat and get to the point.
Here is the outlook I see for the Pirates going forward
- Neal Huntington was hired as the GM of the Pirates following the 2007 season
- In his 3+ years of being GM he has
- Traded away most of our team receiving a mixed-bag of prospects in return
- Avoided signing high-priced aging free agents (notable exception - Aki Iwamura)
- Spent a total of 30,599,800 on the draft over the last 3 years - highest in the majors (not to mention a big international signing - Heredia)
- By doing all this
- The Pirates have been abysmal, especially last year
- Which in turn gives us the first overall pick in next years draft
- Allowing us to continue stockpiling talent into our substantially deeper (compared to 2007) farm system
- Going forward we can expect to
- Be only marginally better, considering no free agent signings or impact farmhands looking to come up in 2011, at least to make a major impact
- But improvement will still be key as McCutchen, Tabata, Walker, and Alvarez will be going into their 1st (or 2nd in McCutchen's case) full big league season.
- From our farm system we can expect to see
- Brad Lincoln make it back to the majors, and guys like Bryan Morris, Jeff Locke, Rudy Owens, Justin Wilson, and Tony Sanchez will all (hopefully) see action at the top of the minor leagues or even in the big leagues before season's end
- Even more talent injected into the farm system with another high draft pick in next years (2012) June draft.
- Low minor's talent to percolate up through the farm system, which if in turn is replenished through the draft and international signing will give us a deep system and a system with ML ready talent (think a pyramid - the wider and stronger the base of the pyramid, the "better" the top can be)
- Since unfortunately 2011 should be another down year, when might hope arrive?
- 2012
- When McCutchen will be in his 3rd full season and Walker, Tabata, and Alvarez will be in their 2nd full season - BIG but often understated factors (players need to mature and learn the ML game - another full year should help all four players
- When Brad Lincoln will be ready to be ML pitcher and James McDonald may have come into his own.
- When guys like Morris, Wilson, Locke, and Owens may be ready out of spring training (if they come up June of 2011) or be ready by June to contribute. Guys like Lambo and D'arnaud may be ready as well
- When all of these factors together may encourage NH to get a significant piece in the free agent market
- However the real party begins in 2013
- When McCutchen (4th full season) and Walker, Tabata, and Alvarez (3rd full) will be entering their primes
- When optimistically Taillon, Sanchez, Marte, and Rendon will be ready to make impacts in the major leagues
- When NH sees the core in place and is more compelled to add an extra piece or two to the puzzle
- But NH keeps talking about a Dynasty? What happens when these core players start inching closer to free agency?
- We may resign some of them - McCutchen for example
- Or we may trade them - Alvarez should command a high price in his prime, giving NH the opportunity to get returns better than what he could get with the likes of Jason Bay etc.
- And then we replace them from our farm system - I'll just put a list of guys out of I haven't mentioned that should/could be legit prospects in the high minors going into 2013-2014 - Allie, Heredia, Von Rosenberg, Cain, Stevenson, Dodson, Mel Rojas, Cayonez, Kingham, Grossman, and few/several guys from the 2011 and 2012 draft.
So, it may still be a few years, which may make it sound like another 5 year plan doomed to fail, but I believe the depth that has been created in the Pirate's minor league system will ensure ultimate success. Be patient and enjoy the ride starting as early as next year, just don't give up hope when the line is long and we miss it this year.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of the managing editor (Charlie) or SB Nation. FanPosts are written by Bucs Dugout readers.
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Optimism is good
Realism is also good. Fifteen other NL teams have the same objective we do. Not all have the same resources, or management quality. Putting together an organization that consistently wins more than it loses must involve far more — including luck — than we normally get to see. Also, the operating environment could change. Wonder if the next CBA will level the playing field any among high, medium and low-income teams.
Not arguing your main point, though. Overall, the talent in the Pirates organization seems better, and deeper, than it was.
Lino Donoso
Nice Assessment
I totally agree with you. We have another 2 years before the improvements “kick in”. The key is how fast (and injury free) our young pitching develops.
Look at the Giants, they build around a core of young pitchers and they won a WS. The Pirates are building both pitching and regulars. Again. avoiding injuries, the Bucs will start to look good in 2012 and beyond.
Nice post
But if i have to read that AKI was a free agent signing one more time……….We traded away a middle reliever for him we did not sign him
age of last winning season: 5
Good catch
Notice it was four in the morning :p.
Details were hard to keep straight. My point is essentially the same – NH hasn’t “wasted” our money as often as past regimes.
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 12, 2010 4:28 PM EST up reply actions
And not to nitpick and/or pile on...
But $5M or so is hardly “high-priced” by MLB standards. I know it represented around 1/7 of the Pirates ML payroll last year, but it wasn’t as big of a risk/disaster as some (not necessarily you) make it out to be. Now if he traded for him and immediately gave him a $5M/yr multi-year extension, then it would deserve the kind of hyperbolic criticism it routinely gets here and elsewhere.
Fair enough
I guess my point is at the time the Pirates were no where near contention and other options and we could have found dozens of other players to start at 2B and give similar results (the results being we still weren’t going to contend, no matter how well our 2B played) for much cheaper, especially considering the fact you brought up (1/7 of the Pirates ML payroll)
Either way, solid point.
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 13, 2010 2:57 PM EST up reply actions
I still have no problem with them acquiring Aki. I don’t know who else could have been acquired that you could say AT THE TIME would have been as good an option without overpaying.
by MarkInDallas on Dec 13, 2010 11:14 PM EST up reply actions
actually, gentlemen, kelly johnson himself reported that he got offers from a few teams
including the pirates.
by white angus on Dec 14, 2010 12:46 PM EST up reply actions
the pirates wanted kelly johnson to play the outfield… at the time, I said johnson was a better option at second than was iwamura and was worth pursuing to play second even with aki already in the fold…
by Captain Easychord on Dec 19, 2010 10:45 PM EST up reply actions
I follow your logic...
but I think hindsight generally clouds any discussion on Iwamura (or any other “bust”). I’m no expert — and I never played the game — but I thought the Iwamura trade was a good move at the time. Knowing they apparently didn’t insist on a physical and all that certainly does not reflect well on the FO’s judgment, but much like Mark said, at the time, it appeared to be an appropriate move.
And Mark, the only guy I can think of would be Orlando Hudson (signed for $5M I think), but who knows if he would’ve had any interest in Pittsburgh at or near that price (doubtful). Also, if we dally in hindsight, Walker likely does not get his shot if Hudson was there. So perhaps it all worked out in the end…
The bigger blunder than the actual trade IMO
FO spoke of possibly moving Laroche there or possibly Walker.
Walker found his stroke in June ‘09…OBS of around .960 the last 2 1/2 months at Indy…that’s not sorta hot…that’s eye opening numbers…
We are playing for little in sept…instead of playing Laroche and Walker daily at 2B and 3B to see what you have (going into the off season)…he rides Walker on the bench and plays a Vazquez/D Young combo at 2B….
NH really showed no initiative/ no forward thinking…we had no 2B…that’s a great time to find out what you have…I believe Walker was ready there…and a winter season of 2B along w/ spring play…if he’s not ready (and playing him once a week isn’t giving him a fair chance at all…he needed to play daily to see if his stick carried up here) he starts at AAA like he did but watching him play a couple times for INdy, he was ready IMO.
Instead of finding anything out…he wastes 5 mil, hell that would have paid most of Soriano’s salary if we were the team to trade Chavez for him…talk about trade bait…but Walker starts out at Indy again w/ a .951 OBS (picked up where he left off in ’09) and finally gets a chance to play FULLTIME because of injury (he still might be a part-timer if not)
This is an aspect of NH’s weakness…he can draft but has little prowness on assembling a MLB roster…that he could watch Walker’s swing along w/ Vazquez/Laroche/Young’s swings and decide not to play him?
Dan,
your dislike of Neal Huntington is pretty well documented by this point.
Why don’t you just make a Fan Post, listing your complaints and putting them “all under one roof,” so to speak, so you don’t have to constantly do it in every post?
It’ll save a you lot of time and trouble. You could refer / link to it when you have issues in the future.
Respectfully,
cocktailsfor2
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Dec 20, 2010 1:21 PM EST up reply actions
thanks for the advice
but when you all post all the great moves involved … it just reminds me of poor GM judgements…forgot all about the stupidity of playing Vazquez and D Young all Sept…
NH true GM moves have been properly measured by our declining win totals…they always say you cant judge a coach/ gm by his first year…as he’s playing w/ his predicessors material…but you get a great picture after that 2nd year into the 3rd year…he’s taken a bad team and made them horrible.
It’s nice he brought protection in for Alvarez…Overbay will force pitchers to go after him…and not pick the corners every AB.
After he and his 25 HR 80 RBI’s production leaves PGH and he suddenly gets to that 35-40 HR 110-120 plus RBI territory…you all can call it luck again…not NH’s fault nobody threw him a strike…he brought in a good fielding 1B that was 2nd to last in offensive production..he did a great job.
To pick nits
“NH true GM moves have been properly measured by our declining win totals…they always say you cant judge a coach/ gm by his first year…as he’s playing w/ his predicessors material…but you get a great picture after that 2nd year into the 3rd year…he’s taken a bad team and made them horrible.”
You
A
A1. Took a statement that is mostly true (in all sports and in baseball included) – “they always say you cant judge a coach/gm by his first year” -
A2. Gave an reason/argument for its validity – “he’s playing with his [predecessor’s] material”
A3. and then told us “they” say it to give it more credibility.
B
B1. Then you give your own opinion – “but you get a great picture after that 2nd year into the 3rd year”
B2. Followed by a specific true statement to try and make your opinion seem like fact – “he’s taken a bad team and made them horrible.”
Essentially you’re trying to make your assertion seem like the truth/fact by creating an analogy that is unequal on both sides. Despite being an effective method (the power of suggestion) you have no factual basis for the statement “you get a great picture after the 2nd year into the 3rd year… he’s taken a bad team and made them horrible.”
Despite agreeing with you that NH has made bad decisions (pointing out a good example of a specific bad decision), I would disagree with you on this matter and instead contend that to turn a baseball team around, due specifically to the nature of talent development (3-5+ years) roster sizes (25 versus 10 in the NBA) and salary cap (there is none) it should and does take much longer to turn around a baseball team in general. Add in the situation the Pirates were in (talentwise) and judging NH by the product on the MLB field at the moment is absurd, in my humble opinion.
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 23, 2010 3:11 AM EST up reply actions
I respect your opinion but...what I said is on the nose
Not only has his teams lost more games each year,,,but they have looked more :bad news near: like in doing so…add to the fact that most of DL’s top prospects are up and performing well for the most part.
The young prospects up here are not the reason we lost 105 games last year…it was all the other “fillers” added by NH…it was the manager and coaching staff hired by NH,,,it was an idiot shift installed by NH…NH’s comments that wins dont matter right now…quite a positive atmosphere he has instilled here…HE IS TO BLAME for this pathetic regression in play the past 3 years.
NH is due credit for building up the minor league system…drafting Alvarez, Tallion, and Allie were NO brainers…Sanchez wasn’t a good pick IMO but overall I’ll give him credit for doing a very good job….Tabata, Meek, Jones all good moves…he has done some good things w/ a piece here and there…
BUT he has shown little to NO sign that he can finish or even attempt to finish a final product. That’s where you look at the roster and see “HERE’s MY BIG HOLES…I’VE GOT TO GET THE BIGGEST BANG FOR MY $$$”
Overbay’s signing at 5 mill? Another left handed corner w/ deminishing production makes as much sense as the Eveland trade…this team needed a RH’er power corner who would allow Alvarez some protection….who helps the line up around him….Overbay’s not a bum but he’s not what this team needed…he’s a VERY marginal upgrade that will prob wont help the line up one bit…
I see Lee’s looking at a 1 year deal 8-10 mill…he not only fills a hole properly for us but he’s worth a ton more at trade deadline (Tor tried trading Overbay last year and was offered nothing..aka less than Laroche)…NH will waste the supposed 4 mill more it’d take to get Lee here.
NH has made these same lame brain moves each year…and it shows on the field…and no matter what his supporters try to say…He’s the one to blame for this regression…not DL nor bad luck’s fault…it is solely his.
This team has alot of young inherent talent…I felt a top 2 SP and upgrade at SS along w/ letting a real manager/ hitting coach do their thing would improve this team atleast 20 games in 2011….these latest signings along w/ NH once again announcing HIS starters, it appears we are in for another puppet dictator type of year again…it’s a shame because there’s a nice young nucleus here…but they aren’t enough all alone to win consistently.
“NH’s comments that wins dont matter right now…”
He’s right. There is only contending or not contending. Since NH has taken over no amount of FA signings, especially those plausible in regards to a Pittsburgh market, would have changed that.
“add to the fact that most of DL’s top prospects are up and performing well for the most part.”
This is a questionable statement, only because I’d name 3 players brought in under the DL era as “preforming well for the most part.” Those players are McCutchen, Walker, and Maholm. Guys like McDonald, Meek, Hanrahan, Ohlendorf, Tabata, and Alvarez are all NH guys. Of those players, Maholm (a DL guy) probably needs to go, simply because he’s (1) an average SP, give or take a little bit and (2) no longer under “very cheap” team control. Yes he has a reasonable contract into the future, but why keep him around when the hope is guys like Taillon, Morris, Locke, J. Wilson, Owens and Lincoln (1 of the 6 is a DL guy) will give just as much production 2-3 years from now.
Again, I will grant you this; NH has made questionable decisions and decisions I don’t like and I will not defend. However, on the whole I think he’s moving our franchise in the right direction and it will be a shame if he’s not given at least 2 more years. Now, come 2012, if we haven’t started improving and showing promise (and I’m talking win around 70 games) then maybe NH needs to go. I would like to point out though that at the end of the 2012 season its reasonable to think that only a handful of NH draftees will have even sniffed playing ball in Pittsburgh, with only one (Alvarez) having played there for a significant amount of time. Guys like J. Wilson, T. Sanchez, and D’Arnaud may have had a cup of coffee, but even by the end of 2012 simply looking at the ML team will be a poor way to evaluate what seems to be the strength of NH as a GM – the draft.
On that point, conceivably our top 15 prospects going into the offseason between 2012-2013 could be (note – this is simply a possibility, projections 2 years from now could go many, many ways.)
1. Rendon
2. Taillon
3. Allie
4. ZVR
5. Heredia
6. 1st round pick – 2012
7. Rojas Jr.
8. Cain
9. 2nd-5th round pick (guy we spend most money on) – 2011
10. Cayonez
11. Kingham
12. Lakind
13. Dodson
14. Stevenson
15. Cunningham
I could be way off, but the point is the top end talent should be solid and the depth should be incredible. The top 2 guys should be ready to debut in 2013 and have a huge impact. Many of the rest of these guys will be in the AA/AAA range and ready to contribute soon. Also, the lower minors should be replenished with the next two drafts.
Finally, NH hasn’t been terrible in acquiring talent elsewhere as I alluded to above and in the OP. Players NH has gotten with limited resources and marginal “trade bait” to start with.
Tabata
Ohlendorf
Meek
Hanrahan
McDonald
Morris
Locke
Gorkys Hernandez
Lambo
Lorin
Josh Harrison
Donald Veal
and I’m sure I’m missing some.
Yes he has missed, but that’s 5 quality ML contributors with 2 having the potential (Tabata and McDonald) even if its an outside chance, to be all-stars. Meek is already an all-star, albeit due to a lack of other talent. Morris and Locke are top prospects, and the rest are at least interesting guys to have in your MIL system.
P.S. I hope my tone doesn’t seem condescending or will ignite a flame war. I appreciate your point of view and respect it. Good discussion going on.
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 23, 2010 2:35 PM EST up reply actions
Not at all truth
you are higher on that list of Gorkys,Harrison, Veal ect…than I am…I haven’t seen Lambo play so I cant comment…
I really dont have a problem w/ his minor league building blocks…but that alone usually wont win…most “marginal” prospects dont make it…and that is what most of ours are…many I feel are overhyped here…Morris isn’t close, Loche is OK, 2 arms stand out…Owens from a complete pitcher and Moreno from a “WOW” POV.
In the late 90’s, I believe we were rated very high in the system yet things never materialized…prospects aren’t the surest things.
Which leads me to my beef w/ NH…it’s his lack of a plan or desire to put the best “possible under the circumstance” team together….His comments that winning doesn’t matter is an atrocious “mind set” for a leader to send out…it’s a cop out for him but worse, it’s demoralizing for every playing trying to bust their butt to win..when your leader doesn’t care…read any inspirational/production materials like a Zig Zigler/ it’s the WORST thing a leader/ Boss can say.
That Veterans bad mouth this organization when leaving is a direct result of this “winning dont matter”…
MLB players strive to WIN…they play the game to WIN…it has to be a terrible atmosphere w/ in the ranks when FO keeps making moves which make it almost impossible to win…and then announces that Wins and Losses aren’t important.
Excellent analysis
I love the use of the rhetorical analysis. Someone took an English class recently (besides me)
The glare of the spotlight is harsh, and the pressure that success breeds immense. We revere our heroes, but expect much. And criticism can come as easily as praise.
On the contrary, angus -
“… which may make it sound like another 5 year plan doomed to fail, but …”
I think the OP is saying that this isn’t just lip service to another 5-year.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Dec 12, 2010 12:30 PM EST up reply actions
Cocktailsfor2
Correct.
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 12, 2010 5:49 PM EST up reply actions
It's nice to read a FanPost like this. Good work, Cutchisthetruth.
As long as the Pirates continue to bring in as much amateur talent as they can each year and do their damndest to develop it, there is hope.
We can’t count on a certain core group being in Pittsburgh for many years together. Some will get hurt, some won’t pan out, and some will become too expensive. The team usually can’t afford to be real players in the FA market, either.
Stick with the program and hopefully we will see winning baseball in Pittsburgh in a couple years and many more to come.
I'd be more hopeful...
if I was convinced that NH was good at determining and acquiring major league talent. They seem to be decent at the draft, but the “major league level” talent that has been acquired has been extremely underwhelming.
Thunder, mi amigo -
I understand your dismay. But really – why bring in expensive FA’s to play on a 60-win team? That will only ensure that other, more talented, high-priced FA’s will continue to shun the ’Burgh.
IMO.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Dec 12, 2010 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not saying...
that they should bring in expensive FA’s right now. What I am saying is that I’m not convinced that NH is good at evaluating talent at the major league level. Seems like every “top prospect” that he has acquired has flopped. One, I can understand. Several is a trend, and not a good one.
To which
“top prospect” do you refer?
I’m assuming you aren’t talking about the bench players we’ve signed in recent years (Church, Crosby, Monroe et al)…
I understand what you’re saying, in general, but not in specifics.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Dec 12, 2010 1:52 PM EST up reply actions
I agree with this point
that being said, he got each of those three players, with the possible exception of Alderson, for a price far below what they would have required a year or two earlier.
Sometimes when you sign a lot of fading star prospects, you find out exactly why their star is fading. Sometimes, though, you provide that one change of scenery or batting/pitching mechanical adjustment that sends them on their way to stardom. I don’t think the idea is bad, but you’re correct in pointing out that the execution hasn’t worked out for us.
True
especially considering the players we traded to acquire most of these “fading” prospects were “fading veterans” themselves.
Really, look at the guys we traded away—Bay, Nady, Wilson, Sanchez, McClouth, etc.—they are almost all hurt, fading fast, or worthless at this point.
I give credit for Huntington even finding any useful players for some of the guys we traded.
by titanlord91 on Dec 12, 2010 8:41 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
exactly
right now, the only one of those names listed above is still putting up respectable contributions (sanchez), though I think bay just chose the wrong team to play for and would be better in a different ballpark. but it was worth it to see if any of those prospects paid off, and I wouldn’t even knock his evaluation of major league talent for the failure of Clement or laroche, he knew they were prospects and was taking a gamble on them putting the peices together, and to knock him for crosby/church et al is foolish too considering he wasn’t signing them to be stars he was simply providing depth…and they didn’t work out
Gotcha.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Dec 20, 2010 1:21 PM EST up reply actions
+1 good point, Thunder.
He’s going to have to show more from the players he acquires at the MLB level.
Your point is a legitimate and fair one
LaRoche was a top prospect who busted.
Alderson was another former top prospect bust. (although I sincerely believe both we and the Giants knew he was trending down, hence why the Giants gave him up for Freddy Sanchez – essentially I give NH more of a pass on this trade then most do)
Gorkys was a top prospect who’s star has certainly dimmed
However
Tabata has worked out well for us, better than Austin Jackson has for the Tigers so far (IMO) and Jackson was rated higher than Tabata
NH picked Meek off the scrap heap and that has worked out well
You could also include Hanrahan and Ohlendorf as solid, even if they aren’t spectacular, ML talent additions..
Plus, the jury is still out on Bryan Morris and Jeff Locke.
While I would agree NH’s talent evaluation in trades has been average at best over the last three years, I think the talent we’ve been adding in the draft and internationally under NH will easily offset any other discrepancies.
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 12, 2010 4:37 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
If Lambo finds himself this year
And plays some RF. I’m fine with trading Pedro, and letting Lambo slide down to first, and Marte into the outfield.
Well,
not necessarily the whole 5 years. If he’s going to cost the pirates 20 million in arbitration, go ahead and ship him for prospects. I don’t want to get stuck in position like the Brewers, where they are having trouble getting what they want for Prince. Obviously, in a perfect world, I would like for him to be a super star and hold him for his whole career, but we’ll see how it plays out.
Why not wait and see what Alvarez and some of the others can do for at least another year
before talking about extensions or shipping them out when they are under team control through 2015 or ’16?
If they don’t keep any of the young players they develop because of what COULD happen with salaries in a few years, then what is the point of trying at all?
Incidentally, we don’t even know what’s going to happen with “Super Two” etc. after next year.
That's not really the point of my post,
You have to at least look to see what future could hold, to be prepared. All I said was if Pedro is going to EVENTUALLY hurt the team money-wise, if there is a suitable replacement it makes sense to trade him.
seems very premature
Pedro should be with the Bucs for at least 5 more years bar someone giving up crazy returns, or injury problems (although then his value wud probably not be high enough to justify it).
But money shouldnt be an issue unless there’s significant FA additions.
I said that I would like him to be a star and a buc for his whole career
I don’t know if that’s very practical. I could just say that I think all the pirates we have now will stay with the team their career, and Mark Cuban will buy the team in 12 and gives a 100+ million dollar payroll, but, for now, I’ll continue to be realist.
he wont be a buc for his career
6 years is the max… but we should be competing every year by year 4 for Pedro. If we arent, well…
Hence, there is no reason to let people go, if they are producing. Maybe in Year 6, if you get the right return. If not, take your draft picks and move on.
by BurgherKing on Dec 13, 2010 12:09 AM EST up reply actions
Dude -
you didn’t really mention Cuban, did you?
Srsly?
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Dec 13, 2010 12:25 AM EST up reply actions
HEY HILLPOPPER
Why are you so high on Sterling Marte? Do you have his stats for the year on him . I
know he is young but I don’t think he has much power at all.
He has as much upside as anyone in the system
His OPS was 819 at A+ with a BA of .315. He had a hand injury most of last year, so there really is no way to gauge his power.
I saw Starling Marte a couple times in WV at the tail end of the '09 season.
He’s got potential. But after missing a ton of time with a hand injury last year, he’s a long ways away from even getting a whiff of Pittsburgh.
Alright, this off-season I’ve got discussion of trading McCutchen, Walker, and now Pedro.
All that’s needed now is a BD mention of trading Tabata, and I’ll win Absurdly Early Trade Speculation BINGO!
by Adam Reynolds on Dec 12, 2010 3:22 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
seriously....
do you think they’d ADD to Lars?!?!?!
That just pushed this trade over the TOP!
by insane_sanity on Dec 13, 2010 11:25 AM EST up reply actions
Thank you sir
Appreciate it.
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 12, 2010 4:38 PM EST up reply actions
They're going to have about a three-year window
before Cutch and Alvarez hit free agency, when Taillon and Rendon will also be here.
2013 could look like this:
CF McCutchen
LF Tabata
3B Rendon
1B Alvarez
2B Walker
RF Lambo/Marte/new acquisition
C Sanchez
SS (anyone but Cedeno, please)
Some combination of Taillon, McDonald, Owens, Allie, ZVR, Morris, Locke, etc.
Lars is at SS
George Brett played SS, so Lars could easily do it.
by BuccoBrigade on Dec 13, 2010 10:10 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
With the obvious caveat of favorable projections for all...
that looks like a solid lineup. But the key to turning the team around is pitching. I hope enough of the young arms pan out, as a staff full of 3/4 types won’t cut it…
that does look decent
my one wish is that Tabata discovers his latent power and can be flipped with Walker in the lineup… I’d be fine giving up his SB for power!
by BurgherKing on Dec 13, 2010 11:58 AM EST up reply actions
Using favorable projections
I feel like that will be an above average offensive lineup across the ML’s. In the NL central it might even be better than that. Unfortunately I feel like, especially if we believe Cutch is actually below average in CF, that same lineup will be average at best in the field. Therefore, as King Oskar pointed out above, our pitching will need to at least NOT be a liability.
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 13, 2010 3:02 PM EST up reply actions
Really nice work,CutchTruth
Sometimes I get bogged down in all the free agent/arbitration/Super Two statuses so it was really helpful just to see a general overview of when things are going to coincide. Nicely done.
The Brewers are finding
how absurdly difficult it is to develop a starting staff from mediocre (or worse) free agents. Basically, their window of opportunity is closing and they have no realistic chance at the Big Dance. At least we know that the PBC is trying to build a starting staff worthy of the name. I’d purely love to see their plan succeed.
Nice analysis, MiTT
My heros have always been Steelers...
no, but the brewers need to trade fielder and get as much back as possible.
other than ryan braun and gallardo, im not seeing much a future out of them.
ol Pete, this is for you, too -
In some ways they already have blown up the team. Fielder is as good as gone (and they won’t get value for him – everyone knows he wants to go). The only players NOT available are Braun, 3B McGahee and OF Hart (my estimation, of course). They are weak up the middle and need a CF and catcher bad. But their starting staff is both mediocre to bad and expensive – not a combination that leads to success.
Of course, they are not Bucs bad – yet. But if I’m looking to build a WS-capable team, not just a contender for the first round of the playoffs, the Pirates are closer than the Brewers. Let’s see if Mr. Nutting is willing to keep a good team together.
My heros have always been Steelers...
I remember the good, old days when lots of people argued that Prince wasn’t that valuable an asset. Supposedly slugging 1st baseman aren’t hard to find. Personally, I hope they let him play out his contract and take the draft picks.
Catcher – Jon Lucroy, CF – Lorenzo Cain. CF is actually a strength of the system. The starting pitching includes inexpensive Gallardo, Marcum and Narveson. Bullpen will include at least 3 rookies.
#2 Avoided signing high-priced aging free agents (notable exception – Aki Iwamura Lyle Overbay)
Fixed.
Da'Sean Butler - A Mountaineer Legend
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 14, 2010 6:02 PM EST reply actions
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