Cross Off Jason Werth
by zogger on Dec 5, 2010 6:18 PM EST
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According to this, The Nats give Jason Werth $126M for 7 years ($18M/yr). Werth will be 38 went this contract is over. Would/should the Bucs have offered this to Werth? I think not.. I like Werth, but not for 7 years at $18M/yr.
Yes we need a RFer, but this is too long a committment. The Nats are making a big commitment but I don't see the talent in their system to capitalize on it. Who knows how good Strasberg will be when/if he comes back?
As for Werth, I guess he went for the money. Playing for the Nats is about playing for the Bucs, but I like the Bucs future better. I doubt if Werth earns any more rings with the Nats.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of the managing editor (Charlie) or SB Nation. FanPosts are written by Bucs Dugout readers.
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I like Werth quite a bit, probably more than most, but seven years seems about three years too long. That said, I think the Nats could compete for a pennant in a few years. Zimmerman, Werth, Bryce Harper and, maybe, a healthy Strasburg. That’s a pretty strong core.
Yeah it is...
at least with respect to the Nats. They still have very little pitching. Strasburg will miss most or all of the season. Unless they score 6 runs a game…they will be fighting us for the first draft pick in the 2012 draft.
Love the Nats
But never has a team had so many question marks on their parts outside of Zimmerman…the odds of everything coming together just so for them are still not really high.
http://bleedblackandgold.com/
by Say Hey Johnny Ray on Dec 5, 2010 10:28 PM EST up reply actions
Thing is,
without those add’l 3 years, he doesn’t sign.
So there ya go.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Dec 5, 2010 9:07 PM EST up reply actions
And don't forget Tony Plush.
Nyjer’s the only reason that the Nationals will be successful.
by IAPiratesFan on Dec 5, 2010 10:54 PM EST up reply actions
Why would they do that?
Nyjer is freaking awesome. Derp.
by IAPiratesFan on Dec 5, 2010 11:04 PM EST up reply actions
I love this deal
Because I hate the Nationals hahahahahaha
It's such a bad deal....
I wish the Cubs had made it.
by IAPiratesFan on Dec 5, 2010 11:05 PM EST up reply actions
It's not your money...I guarantee you their fans love it
Their ownership overpaid IMO…but WERTH will help that team out…as someone who goes to many games, I’d be thrilled if Nutting put a 2nd mortgage on his 7 springs prop and grabbed C Lee, Werth, and Dunn…
I wouldn't.
I’d rather see them lock up McCutchen long term and continue to spend money on the draft.
i wouldnt either
ridiculous to do so; you would hinder any future moves by the franchise. sure, we might break the 70 win barrier, but at a huge cost. plus im positive that Werth’s numbers will never be the same outside of Philly. and to be honest, his numbers werent Werthy of that huge contract in the first place.
If signing C Lee, Dunn and Werth would only result in a 70 win season
why re-sign anyone as it means the rest of the team is worthless.
because youre putting the team in financial jeopardy, thats why
you dont stock up a sucky team with expensive free agents. you think jason werth is gonna make the natinals a playoff bound team??? hell no. you add expensive pieces, if ever, when the team is in contention.
Exactly.
I was trying to think of a good way to reply to that comment. But I just couldn’t think of how to say it. Glad you were able to do that for me.
I think the Nationals, best case scenario, will win 75 games next year. That’s what $126 million will get them next year.
by IAPiratesFan on Dec 6, 2010 11:29 PM EST up reply actions
Well not exactly...
That’s what $126 million will get them next year.
Weth makes $18M next season so his net contributions to next years win total will be relative to that, not the enitre $126M. The Nats aren’t likely to regret this contract for another couple of years. If Werth keeps churning out 4+ WAR seasons he will offset his salary in those seasons. It’s once his game declines, or if he gets hurt, is where things become troublesome. Trying to project his contrinutions 3-4 years from now gets difficult but if he is producung 2-3 WAR his net value is negative. Couple that with the fact that Strasburg and Harper will be getting expensive through arbitration and nearing their free agency period Rizzo will likely be regretting the contract by then. That said, if by some stroke of fate they make the playoffs in two years and Werth is a playoff MVP, Rizzo will look like a genius.
While I think.....
…Washington paid a very steep price (for a very good player) I applaud them for making such a bold move for a player THEY feel will help improve their team…..not saying I agree with the contract but I don’t mind saying I’m a little jealous that a team like the Nationals could, and DID spend this type of money….
I agree with Marooned for the most part..
This deal could very well backfire on the Nats, but this is a risky type of deal I don’t mind too much.
Werth is an athletic player who should put up respectable HR/SB numbers through most of the contract. He’s also an excellent defender with a cannon of an arm. He’ll be signed through the Strasburg and most likely Harper eras, giving them a nice veteran presence in RF.
I’ll almost never endorse a 7 year contract for a 31 year old, but if you’re going to do it, I don’t think Werth is the worst choice of player. Guess we’ll see.
i'd rather sign a cannon arm like francouer
then sign 2 front line pitchers before dishing out bazillion’s to a player who’se stats dont justify his contract. utterly ridiculous
And Francouer’s stats didn’t justify HIS salary ($5M last year). He’s a below average hitter…and for the last 3 seasons combined…has a WAR less than zero. He walks about as often as Freddy Sanchez…maybe less.
Do I want him on the roster?? Not only no…but hell no.
Maybe we can snag Willingham. He’s not washed up, and would make Jones expendable. No idea on price, they might want too much.
by Adam Reynolds on Dec 5, 2010 9:26 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Maybe we can snag Willingham. He’s not washed up, and would make Jones expendable. No idea on price, they might want too much.
by Adam Reynolds on Dec 5, 2010 9:26 PM EST via mobile reply actions
i wholeheartedly agree, mr reynolds
josh is proven and not expensive. he can probably even do a decent first base
Willingham over G Jones?
Willingham is a .250-.265 hitter who’ll hit 18-25 HR’s and gets hurt every year.
Still using BA as a relevant metric?
Really? I thought you’ve been posting a lot recently on here.
move willingham to 1B and hopefully the injuries are cut back
platoon jones in RF and we’ve already improved offensively, and wont cost $126MM
Pgh fan
yeah, I actually think BA, HR’s and all that jazz means something…so do most baseball GM’s.
I like Willingham as a player and I expected him to perform a little better last year…but he didn’t….there’s a reason Willingham’s avail and was given away by Flor earlier…
Always hurt every year…Is extremely streaky, most his production will be done over a couple 2 week red hot streaks…he then reverts to a .240 or so hitter for the majority of the time…and probably the biggest negative is he’s one of the the WORST situational hitters I’ve seen…admittedly I felt he could be a sleeper in some fantasy drafts so I followed him…there’s a reason why he ALWAYS has LOW RBI totals despite decent HR numbers…his HR/AB ratio drops when guys on base….add to that he seems to do whatever it takes to not get that run in…aka pop outs, grounder to pitcher ect…w/ guys sitting on 3B less that 2 outs…he’s terrible w/ that aspect…
Hey PGHfan…producing RUNS is what wins games…
PGH fan
yeah, BA is an important metric as is runs scored,hr’s rbi’s…How anyone feels it doesn’t matter what a guy hits or how many runs he produces…THAT"S BASEBALL,,,scoring MORE RUNS than your opponent.
there’s a reason why Willingham was given away by Florida and that Wash felt the need to upgrade his position. Admittedly I felt Willingham had a chance to be a break out player last year (fantasy purposes) so I followed him…In the end, I came to the conclusion as he’s one overrated player in respect to his true production value.
1) He’s hurt every year
2) He’s an ultra streaky hitter…most his production takes place over a couple 2 week red hot streaks…then the rest of the year he’s a below .250 single hitter.
3) and most importantly IMO…he’s one of the worst situational hitter in baseball…his power drops way off w/ men on base and he seems to do whatever it takes not to drive in a run…aka pop-ups, tappers to pitcher w/ guys on 3rd…his LOW RBI totals year in and year out w/ respect to the amount of homers is a direct response to this.
His production and the way he gets it makes him a fringe corner OF’er…I know RBI’s dont matter to you…wash and flor are stupid…bottom line ULTRA STREAKY poor situational hitters who get hurt each year aren’t upgrades.
There aren't bad or good or relevant or irrelevant metrics
There are only numbers, and numbers are information, aka evidence. You can choose to discard some of that information but that doesn’t make it irrelevant. BA tells you something, and OBP tells you something else, and SLUG% tells you something else, and OPS+ tells you something else … Some are better than others, but that doesn’t make any of them useless.
willingham
earned 4.6mil last year and has a lifetime .841 OPS, 121 OPS+
a big upgrade from Jones
by Pensburgh Pirates on Dec 6, 2010 6:01 AM EST up reply actions
pensburgh
I dont hate Willingham…but his injury history and lack of situational hitting reduces his value…plus the extreme streaks he goes on…much more valuable having someone steady.
D Long had G Jones looking like he had 2 wooden legs last year…no stride, just sorta a lift and land 6" toward home plate…his body was so closed that I cant believe he hit as well as he did…almost every swing was across his body.
I am counting in Hurdle straightening that out…I’m not looking for +.900 OPS again like ‘09 but a big improvement over last years (esp 2H)…if they dont change that footwork back…he’s almost worthless IMO.
Jones would be expendable,
if, maybe, we can snag Willingham – he’s not washed up. No idea on price, they might want too much.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
My technology is failing me.
by Adam Reynolds on Dec 5, 2010 9:45 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Heh.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Dec 5, 2010 10:03 PM EST up reply actions
I think double-touching the post button is leading to the double posts.
by Adam Reynolds on Dec 5, 2010 9:47 PM EST via mobile reply actions
This is a horrible contract for the Nats
never in a million years should the Bucs give anyone beyond age 30 a contract like that.
below is what jeff passan said in his werth article
Strasburg was one of the 10 best pitchers in baseball before his elbow blew, and even if he returns at 90 percent, he’s still an All-Star for the next decade. Harper destroyed the Arizona Fall League, full of top prospects, as an 18-year-old, and he should be a superstar before he can drink legally
i know this has nothing to do with werth, but...
harper destroyed the AFL? he only played 2 games a week, and hit 1 homer. yeah, he did pretty well, but destroyed? and strasburg one of the 10 best pitchers, even though he started getting tagged right before the arm blew?
Re: Werth, from MLBTR
The Nationals’ offer for Jayson Werth was so far beyond what everyone else was offering that agent Scott Boras didn’t bother to ask other teams if they wanted to match, tweets Jayson Stark of ESPN.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
And there's...
a lot of people in the MLB offices and in team FO’s around both leagues, that aren’t happy about the length and cost of the deal. According to Jon Heyman of SI.com.
My problem is…they probably wouldn’t have a problem with the Yankees or Red Sox doing it…but they do with the Nats doing it.
it definately wont help attendance in DC
the only time fans came to their games is when strasburg was on the hill. but this contract puts pressure on all medium/small market teams to unjustifiably overspend on players especially in a weak FA market.
Pressure On
I’m pretty sure we’ll be able to resist that pressure.
Lino Donoso
Very good article...
on this signing…they won’t compete in that division next year, and Werth won’t really be the money. I think the author of this column is right though; Washington, in terms of wealth, really is a sleeping giant. I don’t think this was the best way to go, even though Werth is a pretty good player; he is 31 and coming off a career year. On the other hand, I think they’re a lot better than the Bucs for next year, and to think they’re going to “compete” with the Bucs in terms of being the worst team in baseball is incorrect.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/tim_marchman/12/05/nats.add.werth/index.html
The Nats may be a lot better offensively…but they are going to need quite a bit of pitching that they don’t currently have to stop from losing 95-100 games. Strasburg is out for the season. Which leaves Livan Hernandez as the only pitcher with an ERA below 4.65 last year in their starting rotation. Their starting rotation ERA in 2010 was 4.61…the Pirates was 5.28…but with Strasburg missing from their’s and Duke from ours, those numbers are likely to be a lot closer to each other.
Dont understand the fascination with Werth
The guy didnt do anything till he was what, 29? Now he’s exiting his peak years and theyre gonna give him 7 years? I dont get it at all.
Also, at a couple of the other posts above. DC is not a small market. Not that I think they should be blowing money like this or anything, but if they can get some players and put fannies in seats they should be able to spend with anyone.
the flip side of him peaking late
is that he lost a lot of time to injuries…as in, he doesn’t have the mileage at 31 that a lot of other players do. I don’t necessarily agree with that line of thinking, but I can see where baseball people would take that into consideration.
he was also viewed as a 4th outfielder at best
by the orioles, jays, dodgers and even the phillies. he got the starting gig in philly mainly because geoff jenkins didnt put up starters numbers. i like werth; he hustles, hes a good player… $126MM??
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