Kenshin Kawakami?
by JRoth95 on Dec 6, 2010 2:11 PM EST
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PrintPer DK, there's a lot of talk about the Pirates trading for him.
B-R says he's arb-eligible after next year, but don't guys from NPB work differently? I'm going on the assumption that he's a FA after the completion of his 3/$23M contract. DK says he's owed $6.67M for '11. We could afford to eat all of that; it really comes down to what we're willing to trade vs. how much we'd want to pay.
His ERA+ was 107 in '09 and 76 in '10; xFIP says he was the same ~4.58 pitcher both years. Decent, not great K rate, too many walks, nice, low GB rate that should play OK with our IF. In some ways he's the kind of guy that we've talked about as a more-suitable alternative to Zach Duke: less pitch-to-contact without being so outstanding that he's unreachable. If we covered $5M of his salary, we'd be paying what we would have for Duke with excellent prospects of getting better results.
So, whom do you trade for him, and how much salary do you want ATL to eat?
Incidentally, I cannot believe that he's the second Kenshin Kawakami in MLB history. 135 years, 2 Jack Wilsons, 2 Kenshin Kawakamis.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of the managing editor (Charlie) or SB Nation. FanPosts are written by Bucs Dugout readers.
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If the Pirates were willing to eat the contract, I doubt they would have to give up anything. Atlanta would be probably be thrilled if someone offered to take half the contract.
If the Pirates were willing to eat that much salary...
they wouldn’t have non-tendered Duke.
Good Thing Littlefield isnt the GM...
He would insist that the Braves did in fact get a prospect back in the deal
Yeah, DL ...
was generous in giving our prospects to other teams.
Well
I’m pretty sure you’re not allowed to literally trade a player for nothing.
But the real question is whether you’d rather the Pirates pay more or less all of his contract in order to save sending even a nominal prospect, or if you make ATL pay most of his salary and send back, I dunno, Matt McSwain or Anthony Claggett (OK, the Braves wouldn’t pay much for either, but we have less chum in the system than we used to)?
Per MLBTR / Langosch:
Re: Kawakami’s salary:
The Pirates have shown some interest in Braves starter Kenshin Kawakami, reports MLB.com’s Jenifer Langosch. She estimates Kawakami would only cost the Pirates $1-2MM and no significant players, as the Braves are just looking to unload part of his $6.667MM salary.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
Seriously
Are the Braves that desperate to cut salary? And are they so certain that a 4.58 xFIP guy is worthless? I mean, if the cut the guy and use a replacement-level pitcher, that costs them $7.067M. If they trade him to us and we cover (split the diff) $1.5M, they pay $5.567M for that replacement-level pitcher.
I don’t think the Braves are looking for $1.9M NRIs and need payroll space to pursue them, do you?
Anyway, I’d absolutely pull the trigger on this. $1.5M and a PTBNL for a guy who could well be worth 2+ WAR? Easy call.
+1
I don’t think that you can possibly pass on him at that price. Or even something close to that price.
http://bleedblackandgold.com/
by Say Hey Johnny Ray on Dec 6, 2010 4:48 PM EST up reply actions
Unless we give someone who has absolutely no upside
sorta like Kris Watts or Claggett, and the Braves cover atleast $4.5million of his contract then I’m all for it, but I don’t think Atlanta would be willing to do that
by 2010 will be the year on Dec 6, 2010 3:14 PM EST reply actions
There's only been one Kenshin Kawakami in MLB
At least in Baseball-Reference. If you saw 2 in Fangraphs, that is just them listing him separately as a major leaguer and a minor leaguer.
I do like Kawakami as the “veteran starter” pick-up since he’s healthy and will be cheap. Rather have him than Webb or Harden or someone like that.
Fangraphs had a guy in 1975
Ah, but now I see that it’s a weird link to his AAA page, using his birthdate. Odd.
Is this a good place to complain that, when I type “Pedro Alvarez” into FG, it offers me Pedro Tavarez as well? They’re not even that close! Like, I could get it if it were Alvarez and Alvares. But you can’t realistically mistype “Ta” for “Al”.
Pedro Tavarez's full name...
…is Pedro Albert Tavarez. PEDRO AL(bert ta)VAREZ.
Makes sense, if you think like a computer.
The Fangraphs page doesn't have his middle name listed.
But per B-R, it’s Alberto.
Of course, that still doesn’t explain why they wouldn’t display the middle name on the page, if they had it in the name database for the player search. Now my head hurts.
B-R says he’s arb-eligible after next year, but don’t guys from NPB work differently?
NPB guys sometimes ask for a clause that prohibits their team from offering them arbitration. I’m not sure whether Kawakami has one or not.
According to Cot's
Yes, Kawakami has a clause that would make him a free agent without a new deal after 2011.
How bout a Kawakami for Doumit swap?
Seems like it could be mutually beneficial..
Not quite
In the swap Langosch outlines, we get Kawakami and Doumit for ~$6.6M, minus one worthless PTBNL. In your swap, we get Kawakami alone for $6.667M. We can still get some value for Doumit, and any value is a better deal than a swap would be.
Not that someone like myself knows more, but I don't buy what Langosch is saying..
It just doesn’t make sense, Atlanta is willing to unload Kawakami to save 1-2 million and get nothing in return? If that is true, then count me in.
My thought with Kawakami for Doumit is that essentially we are just swapping salaries, only now using the 6 million or so in a much better way. Kawakami gets added to the rotation mix, and we can still go out and make a splash in FA.
Maybe Atlanta wouldn’t have interest in Doumit, but I’d bet they’d have some. Between RF/1B/ and C, Doumit could probably squeeze in 300 at bats or so for Atlanta. For a competitive team, having a useful player like Doumit around would seem to be a nice advantage.
Doumit = Veteranosity!
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Dec 6, 2010 5:10 PM EST up reply actions
Doug Mientkiewicz has Atlanta on the phone right now.
http://bleedblackandgold.com/
by Say Hey Johnny Ray on Dec 6, 2010 5:19 PM EST up reply actions
What would the Braves want with Doumit?
They already have a much better catcher.
And a slightly better 1b
I’m assuming it’s Freeman’s job and the Braves will give him 550 at bats.
The deal that caught my attention...and is under radar
S Marcum to Milwaukee…the guys a solid pitcher…he had his surgery and came back strong…I expect him to be even stronger this year…and cheap salary-wise w/ a couple more arb years of control.
Milw gave up a darn good prospect in Lawrie but Marcum has the stuff and know how to be a very solid #2 behind Gallardo.
its not under the radar
but it hasnt been noticed that much because it was a fanshot, and the plethora of fanposts has relegated those…
Lawrie
I was surprised the Brewers dealt him. I guess they like Weeks long term at 2b.
But Lawrie looks like a real hitter to me. If he can stay at MI, the Jays got a nice player.
For a SP like Marcum
Lawrie’s a pretty decent price…you have Weeks who’s off a decent year…it’s tough to find a cheap top 2 SP…and FA prices for them are off the wall…and SP is the most important position on any team IMO.
I like MIL’s end of this deal
Agreed...
I’ve read a couple of scouting reports on Lawrie and they are critical of his ability to stay at second. Both of them predicted a move to the OF. I think the Brewers did pretty well here.
If he's healthy,
I would definitely sign on to acquiring Kenshin Kawakami.
I’d say we could save the Braves $2 million or so in salary.
Kawakami = Kuwata-san v2.0
An older Japanese pitcher well past his prime. We’ve got plenty of places to find pitchers that are capable of a 5.00 ERA.
That's not really fair.
Kawakami has at least had a year as a fairly successful pitcher in the majors. And like the post mentions, his peripherals in 2009 and 2010 are nearly identical. He was probably a bit lucky in ’09, and unlucky in ’10.
What part...
of being an older Japanese pitcher well past his prime…is not fair? I’m not saying he’d produce the same numbers…thank goodness. But…I’ll be surprised if his ERA is back down below 4.
I love Kuwata on a personal level...
…but speaking realistically, he had already been done for several years by the time we signed him.
I was just on a Braves site
to see what is being said by their fans regarding Kawakami. You wouldn’t believe some of the comments. “Maybe we can use Kawakami to acquire McCutchen” or “We should offer Lowe and Kawakami and get McCutchen and Alvarez back”. Unbelievable….
Sounds like some of the trade proposals on here
Just kidding.
But there are some unrealistic trades proposed here.
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