Rule 5 Open Thread
While you wait, you can enjoy Vlad's annotations of BA's Rule 5 list and his own list of top candidates. You can also have fun with this CBC.ca preview of the draft, which for some reason lists Pirates organizational reliever Michael Dubee as a top candidate to be drafted by the Blue Jays, and also posts a picture of Dubee that is actually a picture of Bryan Morris they ripped from the Post-Gazette. Oops!
I think there's only the remotest chance of Dubee being drafted today, for whatever it's worth. He doesn't have nearly enough upside to justify being picked.
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NH
I think NH is a bit tough on the talent.
I’d still try to go for two guys:
1. Aneury Rodriguez
2. Emaus or Josh Rodriguez. Dan has posted some interesting things about Rodriguez and, I wonder like Vlad, whether he could contribute right away.
Prediction: The Pirates trade the top pick but do pick a player.
+1
After sleeping on it…
I feel we should draft A Rodriguez first…the guys only 22 at AAA…and he’s pitched well…plus he dominating winter ball…numbers even better than Ramirez. I know NH worries if a guys not throwing mid 90’s…which is always nice but this guy is young, advances and appears to be a “PITCHER”…not a thrower.
D Sanchez is a good example of a guy who succeeded after coaches (in LA) taught him to pitch…If A Rodriguez’s FB is sown a couple MPH’s yet his numbers are getting better…I hardly feel it’s a concern right now…if he lost MPH and getting hit hard (alderson)..then it’s a concern.
I know it’s not the normal but if J Rodriguez makes it to rd 2…you have to take him…he may be better than Cedeno right now (If NH would only allow a mgr to have competition for jobs)…but he’s played all 3 inf positions,..he’s cheap…his upside is much much MUCH greater than the expected bum we’d sign for that position…Hall,amezega,the crosby’s Vazquez,Gomez ect…
If either proves to be a bum…it cost us 25K…chump change
I just thought it's be nice
for shi!s and giggles…to let someone earn their starting role
You mean like how Lastings Milledge earned his, then sucked?
You mean like how Neil Walker earned his, then was pretty good?
You mean like how Garrett Jones earned his?
I’m not sure where you get this idea that there’s no competition for jobs.
www.stealingfirstbase.com
How did Milledge earn his
his .270 w/ no HR’s at AAA…and Clement earn his?…thank god AKI got hurt or Walker would still be at AAA and a sept sit on the bench call up…
Milledge earned his by out-hitting Ryan Church.
Walker was called up and getting some playing time before Aki got hurt.
Clement, I’ll give you.
www.stealingfirstbase.com
clement played fairly decent in spring training, thats how he got the job
then lost it less than 2 months later and jones moved back to 1B
I have to admit
NH’s FA signings last year were so so poor that there wasn’t a whole lot of anything there.
Clement was known to be the starting first baseman during the winter months BTW…there were NO job comps…but as I said, when you bring in guys like they did…Crosby I thought had a chance to be an upgrade but …
This year…I feel they have to grab a Lee for 1B…we need a bigger bat at 1B, preferably RH’ed to protect Alvarez in the line-up.
I;m also hoping J Rodriguez jumps on this opportunity and is given atleast a chance…Cedeno may out play him but he needs to be given the chance to beat him out.
SP? Sounds like Lincoln and Morton are already zapped out
Vlad
I’ve seen Dubee mentioned as a possible pick by a couple of people. Mostly, as with the CBC article, by people who don’t actually know anything about him other than his bloodline and stat sheet.
by Vlad on Dec 9, 2010 7:11 AM EST via mobile reply actions
I've seen a few articles too
And I can’t believe there is much interest in him.
And I can’t believe he’d make it through spring training before being returned.
The Jays, I believe, have the largest number of scouts scouring the minor leagues. So I trust they will choose someone a scout has seen multiple times and really believes in. The Jays did get Ronald Uviedo in the Eveland trade, so they should know Dubee quite well. Doubt he’s the choice, but you never know.
From what I've read...
I guess the Buccos take a player to trade with the first pick and then draft a second for themselves.
I would guess that we see a pitcher first and then a position player second.
Elvin Ramirez
I’ll tell you what, at 6’3" 208 lbs, and 22 yrs old throwing 94-98…hard to pass on, esp. for NH. His walk numbers are up, but he is only 22 years old – sounds like a “thrower” and not quite a “pitcher” yet.
Vlad: you took a look at the youtube vid (blocked by my employer) – how “fluid” is his delivery on the few pitches you can see?
I see that Ramirez was moved to the ’pen for 2010…and his K/9 numbers went back up. But starting, in A-ball, he was only striking out 5.9/9? Those are Tim Alderson (with a dead arm) numbers, not a 21 yr old throwing 94-98.
A. Rodriguez logged 113 innings vs. AAA competition at the same age, and seemed to fare better against them. He’s also carrying 23 less pounds on his frame than Ramirez. It’s just a DAMN shame neither of these guys were lefties…oh wait, then they wouldn’t be unprotected in the Rule 5!
insane
watching the video (only a side view which isn’t great)….he’s choppy, shortish stride…and it appeared whoever he was facing was getting decent wood/alum on the ball…not many swing and misses on the 3 different videos I saw.
the numbers and the video at first glance has me like a rod better.
just noticed that brock bond was available from the giants
saw him play. terrific OBP in his career, good fielding 2B… no power however. if he had a little pop you would be hearing his name more often
He would make total sense, given that Huntington knows him from Cleveland and the Pirates fanned on Hardy and Bartlett.
This is my only problem with the pick.
He’s probably mostly peaked by now, due to his age.
I still think I’d rather have seen Emaus – younger, and far more acceptable K rates.
Hey, an out is an out - unless you're Mario, in which case it's probably two outs. -UtesFan89
Hard work always beats talent if talent doesn't work hard.
Hey, if you’re gonna call us birds you might as well call us chickens. -Leafer87
injuries have derailed him
he is an injury risk…but he’s a very talented kid when on the field
What do we know about his defense?
Because I agree, with his batting #s it’s perplexing that he hasnt had a shot in MLB.
I suppose that’d be added defensive value over Emaus, who doesn’t play short at all from what I understand. Still, it’s a slightly puzzling pick to me.
Hey, an out is an out - unless you're Mario, in which case it's probably two outs. -UtesFan89
Hard work always beats talent if talent doesn't work hard.
Hey, if you’re gonna call us birds you might as well call us chickens. -Leafer87
Adequate at short...
…is better than inadequate.
And given that we’re apparently sticking with Pedro, Walker, and Jones in their spots from last year, a small downgrade in shortstop defense would be coals to Newcastle at this point.
I can live w/ that
upside is there…and it’s definitely a position of weakness.
I fully expect to hear from NH…J Rod will compete for our back up/ utility position.
White angus…I will need a swig of ouzo if by any chance that we hear NH say..“We are bringing him in to compete for the starting SS position, which is wide open.” Hearing that would make me giddy w/ joy…it’s be the first sign of a changing philosophy in PGH
29 other GM’s that have poor production at a position would announce something along those lines IMO
Dealing with a dead car battery.
Stupid cold. Will have to catch up later.
by Vlad on Dec 9, 2010 9:01 AM EST via mobile reply actions
I need a new car, is what I need.
Mo’ money, mo’ problems? Maybe, but I’d like to personally verify that one of these days.
by Vlad on Dec 9, 2010 10:36 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Dec 9, 2010 11:08 AM EST up reply actions
Good
Solid selection. Hopefully this means we don’t sign Alfredo Amezega or some other lousy veteran utility guy.
Agree a lot
Esp if the guy’s bat is advanced beyond hit glove, then he’s useful off the bench. You’d like a better glove as well, of course, but NH’s record with FA UTs is pathetic – J-Rod’s going to be better than almost anyone we were likely to sign.
Still sad about Hardy.
+2
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Dec 9, 2010 11:09 AM EST up reply actions
+1
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Dec 9, 2010 11:09 AM EST up reply actions
Blame angus.
I hadn’t planned on totaling them up!
;-)
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Dec 9, 2010 11:18 AM EST up reply actions
Looks like J Rod
He will compete for a Relief pitching spot, which is teh first sign of a TOTALLY different philosophy here in phgh.
Anyone know how long the first round goes?
I would like to know how long I can do work without missing a possible second rounder.
Eh.
Can’t see Adcock sticking with them.
Hey, an out is an out - unless you're Mario, in which case it's probably two outs. -UtesFan89
Hard work always beats talent if talent doesn't work hard.
Hey, if you’re gonna call us birds you might as well call us chickens. -Leafer87
I think he'll be back w/ us
I like him more than Pribanic (who I think is worthless)…but that said…I think it’s a bit of a stretch for him lasting the year.
Adcock is a good pitcher…smart…but his stuff isn’t all that great…reminds me of D Mccutchen a little.
Harsh?
on Pribanic? He doesn’t have a prayer to ever make the bigs..or to compete in the bigs.
Adcock is a better pitcher, no question about it IMO
yeah
same here, a little disappointed they didnt protect him… we had space… we’ll see how this plays out
Well it was fun while it lasted
1 26 year old SS with no ML experience. Should have snagged Pirela or Rowell. It’s not like we’ll compete.
J Rod has much more upside than those 2
If he’s healthy…he’s an +800 OBS
One would think that
he would have at least had a cup of cofee in the bigs, especially with Cabera missing a lot of time last year.
Surely someone here has an explanation?
Y’all know more than I do.
Some players are blocked, some develop later. Not everybody makes their debut at 21 or 22. Utley and Howard were almost 25 when they made their MLB debut.
great point, and luck plays a part too
if thome didnt get hurt, howard would have debuted with another team
I was wondering
why our new guy wasn’t getting playing time over this guy
no upside pick
pass on ramirez for a back up ss ,wow !!
by melikie yung tang on Dec 9, 2010 9:21 AM EST reply actions
If he can hit .280
he should start. Tired of watching Cedeno flounder at the plate, and make mental errors in the field.
Yea, but it makes me sad.
That’s why I would have drafted Pirela as well and dumped Cedeno, and let the two battle it out. Keep one as utility. That said JRod does seem to have good pop. He could hit 10-15 HR’s
Yes but,
there’s really no reason to keep him is there? It makes much more sense to take a shot on a couple youngsters when the bucs have no shot at competing this year. Might as well let some young talent try and break through.
Just because we're not going to win many games
doesn’t mean you have a black hole @ SS.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Dec 9, 2010 12:30 PM EST up reply actions
+99999999999999999999999999999999999
If he outplays Cedeno in spring…he should be start…and visa versa.
4 deep
the bucs are 4 deep at minor ss who project to back-ups in the major leagues. We could have used a power arm for our bullpen.
by melikie yung tang on Dec 9, 2010 9:45 AM EST up reply actions
scott olsens contract is for $500k plus incentives and option year in 2011
good, make him earn the money.
The Bucs should look into a trade with KC so that KC can send Adcock down to the minors—it could be a win-win assuming that we don’t really care to get Adcock back.
Rodriguez is a better option than Diaz was, so we used the Rule 5 to improve the major league roster (assuming the plan was to have Ciriaco start in AAA).
you may have something there
maholm and adcock for butler??? gasp!!!!!!!!!! lolol… figure i would be a yinzer for a second
Adcock has to go through waivers first
Everyone confuses this point, but KC and Pittsburgh couldn’t work out a trade for Adcock until he passed through waivers first.
What I’m not sure about, though I suspect you’re right, is whether the waivers requirement is there for trades. I know a player has to pass through waivers before he is offered back to his original team for $25,000, but if the two teams work out a trade, does the player still need to pass through waivers? I was thinking when DL made the trade with the Mets to get Bautista back, there were no waivers involved. But I didn’t pay that close attention, and I don’t remember the details about the Meek trade. On the other hand, you would think there would be many more trades of Rule 5 picks if waivers were not involved.
The only way Adcock can be sent to the minors — by any team — is if he clears waivers. When the Mets traded Bautista to the Pirates, he had to remain on the Pirates active roster the remainder of the season because he never went through waivers.
Jim Callis of BA tweets about J. Rodriguez (i refuse to say jrod)
“Offensive-minded utility type. Bench fodder, not a potential regular. "
if ciriaco is in AAA, where does that leave mercer/d'arnaud/friday?
i said that i wouldnt be surprised if d’arnaud started in altoona again, but now im thinking that ciriaco would be the utility guy in Indy.
Cesar Valdez
is the player coming to the Pirates to complete the Zach Duke trade
In your opinion
Does the acquisition of a guy that puts the ball on the ground alot like this indicate the coming of a better defensive team? Or am I just completely over reacting at this point?
The glare of the spotlight is harsh, and the pressure that success breeds immense. We revere our heroes, but expect much. And criticism can come as easily as praise.
Hard to say.
Not many guys get more ground balls than Pribanic, and his pickup sure didn’t signify any new commitment to infield defense.
Rodriguez has a better Zips projection than Cedeno and the other internal options, and his defense at short grades out as average. So sure, he may not be a championship-level starter. But better than what we have at the major league level? I think so.
by Adam Reynolds on Dec 9, 2010 9:53 AM EST via mobile reply actions
If J-Rod is a UT guy
But a decent one who sticks for 5 years, that picks seems fine for me. could save us some decent coin in the long run.
any info on Travis Scott??
the catcher that the Pirates grabbed in Round 2 of the AAA phase from Arkansas (the Angels affiliate)
He actually hasn't.
Check the park. High Desert is a totally absurd offensive environment, right up there with Lancaster and Colorado Springs and such.
well OK
but that still doesnt mean you leave him there for 4 years. You keep promoting him till he shows you he cant handle it. Unless they were that stocked…
he was ranked behind clement... lol
but seriously, it is kinda funny that he stayed in Aball for almost 4 years. hes just minor league catching depth is all
he is
but it doesnt seem like he had a chance to do anything more… of course, for all you know, maybe he cant even catch balls, much less throw out runners and call a game!
Nope.
It’s a weird part of the AAA phase, he is “picked” by Indy but can go onto any roster, doesn’t have to spend a day on the Indy roster.
Ha!
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Dec 9, 2010 11:13 AM EST up reply actions
Organization guy
He’ll be 26 in the spring and hasn’t played above AA.
He looks like an organizational catcher.
He’s put up some nice hitting numbers, but they were at High Desert, which is like being able to dunk a basketball in an 8-foot basket.
Org. catcher, probably headed for Bradenton.
Was just looking up his stats and stuff....
I saw that he was in the Seattle organization until this summer, then signed on with the Rockford team in the Independent League to finish out the summer. The Angels just signed him as a minor league FA last month.
Strange, that he seemed to have pretty decent numbers in 2007 at high-A ball, but then was stuck there for the next three years (where he continued to put up decent numbers, but didn’t advance until last year.) Wonder if he was blocked in the Seattle minor system or if there’s some giant hole in his game that kept him there.
I was going to ask where the Pirates have a catching hole, but WTM, you answered it with Bradenton. I’m guessing he’ll take Tony Sanchez’ spot on that roster as I assume Sanchez might be Altoona-bound.
predictable but still disappointing:
“He ’s a guy that will compete to make our club
as our utility guy”
by Adam Reynolds on Dec 9, 2010 10:34 AM EST via mobile reply actions
i m curious
as to the logic behind (what was it, 6 or 7) teams passing on Brad Emaus. The pursuit of upside, I imagine, but I still don’t get it. I mean, this guy is ready right now, wouldnt have to be hidden terribly, and there’s some chance he could provide decent offense at 2b/3b. At worst, you’ve a min salary guy as your bench player for 6 years
maybe Emaus is ready to do absolutely nothing?
none of us have ever seen the guy play, right? how could we possibly know what he will do in the majors? lyle overbay and casey kotchman totally destroyed minor league pitching and ended up below average major leaguers
I think that some people...
…are underestimating the impact of park effects on Emaus’s raw line last year. He’s got some skills and is IMO worth having on a roster, but he isn’t ready to start right now, and his bat isn’t going to be as robust as the raw line might suggest. He also isn’t tremendously athletic, and it hurts that he can’t play short.
so waht
So whats the logic in passing up the 2nd round pick?
just to keep a extra roster spot open? or is there another reason?
age of last winning season: 5
MLBTR Just Posted This
The Pirates seem to be close to a deal for Kawakami, tweets Biertempfel. He says money is one issue, as is the possibility of the Pirates moving Paul Maholm.
Am I reading that correctly as in they want to send Maholm to the Braves for Kawakami? I’m hoping that they threw that in there to say that Maholm may be dealt but just not necessarily to the Braves.
i doubt maholm goes to the braves. i believe their rotation is set.
plus they get rid of salary just to take on maholms?
what angus said
the Braves want to get rid of Kawakami, not add another starter who would be in the back of their rotation
To me...
…it sounds like they are interested in adding Kawakami if another, separate deal for Maholm goes through.
Vlad
What do you think they will be looking for in a Maholm deal?
That would make sense.
I just wonder who is out there worth a Maholm deal.
the only other ML SS said to be available via trade this off season that could be viewed as an upgrade to Cedeno have been Ryan,Scutero and J. Reyes but I don’t think Maholm for any of those makes sense. M
Maybe making a run at Drew from Arizona because they are making some weird decisions, not really heading in any direction
I really like Ryan given that he still has three years of control and that it would be nice to have one exceptional defensive infielder. But I don’t see the Pirates wanting to give up much to the Cardinals.
The only thing the Pirates should be giving St. L:
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Dec 9, 2010 11:19 AM EST up reply actions
im a NH supporter, but if maholm is dealt...
that means the pirates really havent added any payroll so far this offseason. if doumit is gone too, cedeno will be one of our highest paid players.
If trading Maholm and Doumit would bring in some guys that might actually help us win a couple years from now,
I’d have no problem with it.
I don’t care about the total payroll as much as I do about who is receiving the money.
Let’s wait and see.
i can be patient. i was just making an observation about the payroll
because we all know that if payroll is leaving Pitt, the smizikers will be livid.
Is that one of our minor league affiliates that I forgot about?
by Adam Reynolds on Dec 9, 2010 12:12 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I'm ecstatic about this pick!
…but that could be because I took my meds 20 minutes ago on an empty stomach…
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
im hoping we dont trade Maholm...
until we are done playing the brewers, so we can watch him make a fool out of prince fielder just one more time
BTW,
if you haven’t seen J. Rodriguez’s stats, ere they are.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
Does the selection of J Rodriguez officially eliminate a trade/signing of a SS?
Ryan seems to be the only one left that we were interested in anyways I suppose.
Also, before lamenting J-Rod as a guy too old for the level, a career minor leaguer, etc etc, keep in mind he only turns 26 this month. Meaning, (obviously), he was only 25 through all of last season.
Just briefly glancing at J-Rods minor league stats..
I’m seeing more promise than I orginially had..
Starts out as a good prospect, moves up to AA (notoriously the toughest jump up, correct?) and struggles for a full season, comes out the next year (2009) putting up a .426 OBP in 33 games before getting injured. 2010 he was even better between AA and AAA.
I don’t know if I would immediately start him over Cedeno, but personally there’s alot to like here.
But guys, for reals
Can we unilaterally agree to stop using “JRod,” like, now?
There’s way too many "_Rod"s already and it wasn’t that cool to begin with.
We can do better, nickname-wise.
by Garrett122 on Dec 9, 2010 11:36 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
Good Luck
But I don’t think people are going to stop using JRod or other equally inane nicknames anytime soon. I tried my best to help kill that ugly tradition back when the Pirates had Nady by continually referring to him as X-Nad, but that didn’t really go over.
A-Rod is the only one I verbally say..
..just cuz it was the original (at least to me).
JRod, KRod, JMac is usually quicker to type… so no, sorry, I will not cease usage of _Rod while blogging haha.
Yeah, it's pure shorthand
I don’t think I’ve ever said “NyjMo”, but it’s short- Wait! No it’s not. I’ve been hoodwinked!
That said, J-Rod is a lot shorter than Josh Rodriguez, and given the number of Joshes and Rodriguezes….
X-Nad?
hahaha I don’t remember that at all. That’s pretty terrible.. X-Man isn’t bad, but X-Nad is just butchery.
sign
had a sign at pnc park that was taken down GO-NADS
by melikie yung tang on Dec 9, 2010 12:30 PM EST up reply actions
I would like this 1000 times if I could
I blame Linda Cohn. She took Alex Rodriguez’s pretty cool name and tried to apply it to every other Rodriguez everywhere (mostly Ivan).
Pirates, Vikings, Hokies. I'm used to heartbreak. At least I have the Penguins....
"When I put on my uniform, I feel I am the proudest man on earth."
-The Great One
by blackjackfishtaco on Dec 9, 2010 11:46 AM EST up reply actions
DK retweets:
BenBadler
Josh Rodriguez was not going to make the Indians top 30. Avg arm but hit, power, speed all blw-avg tools, solid AAA guy
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
Personally
I tend to trust Goldstein more than most, but that’s just me
The glare of the spotlight is harsh, and the pressure that success breeds immense. We revere our heroes, but expect much. And criticism can come as easily as praise.
Oh, I know -
I was just throwin’ that out there for discussion…
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Dec 9, 2010 12:34 PM EST up reply actions
the dude
was good enough to start at Rice, get drafted 2nd round, and advance his way up to AAA last year. Give him a shot at the majors, never know what can happen (a la GFJ rookie year). At worst we have to go back to Cedeno everyday so its not like we dont have a fall back option. I would like to see this guy get a chance at starting
Agreed.
Guys have a pedigree for a reason. Let him play and see what he can do. It’s essentially a free pick, so why not? I don’t get to “see” Cedeno play, so I have no idea how good/bad he truly is, but I trust everyone on this blog. We need to find a successful holdover.
Pirates, Vikings, Hokies. I'm used to heartbreak. At least I have the Penguins....
"When I put on my uniform, I feel I am the proudest man on earth."
-The Great One
by blackjackfishtaco on Dec 9, 2010 12:09 PM EST up reply actions
response by NH on draft so far......
It looks like NH wants our new SS to be Rodriquez.. Scroll to the 10:37am comment from N.H. found on ESPN. Here’s the link…http://espn.go.com/mlb/hotstove10/notebook/_/id/5838237/winter-meetings-live
I'm not sure how sincere you are with this comment
but that’s not actually a Neil Huntington quote, it’s just a commenter using “Neil Huntington” as his screen name.
I haven’t read a single scouting report that indicates Rodriguez is a MLB caliber shortstop defensively at this point.
by getwonkafied on Dec 9, 2010 12:38 PM EST up reply actions
You mean all GMs don’t post their plans in comments at ESPN?
by WTM on Dec 9, 2010 2:02 PM EST up reply actions
Here is what Neal REALLY said to Langosch:
“He’s a guy that will compete to make our club as our utility guy,” Huntington said. “He has solid defense at shortstop. He can swing the bat a little bit. He can bounce around and play second, short and third. You can probably run him into the outfield. He’s a guy that’s a good addition to the organization.”
I almost had him word for word
Too predictable…LOL…
Bucco’s could save some more money by just not having spring training…my guess is each position is already accounted for, each rotation spot accounted for…and my guess is they already have the line up set…NH telling Hurdle who what and where…Hurdle still has to release it though.
It’s cheaper just having guys throwing and hitting out of a indoor cage at 7 springs…
There is a nice article by John Manuel with quotes from Neal on the BA frontpage (it’s a free article). Basically it sounds like they felt Rodriguez was better than any of the FA options.
When we were looking at...
….possibly bringing Alfredo Amezega back….I have to agree with that. I have no problem with Rodriguez being our utility guy. If he shows he can play SS better than Cedeno, I have no problem with Ronny becoming our utility guy and hope that is exactly what happens. If Ronny can man 2B/ss and someone like Marte makes the team to cover 1B/3B then I’m OK with that.
Why all the love
for Brandon Ryan — can’t hit a bull in the butt at 5 paces !!!!

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