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Guess the 25-Man Roster: Pitchers

I assume the Pirates will go with a 12-man pitching staff, because they usually do, even though it shouldn't be completely necessary with so many days off in April. With that in mind, here are my best guesses.

NEAR-LOCKS

SP Paul Maholm
SP Ross Ohlendorf
SP Zach Duke
SP Charlie Morton
RP Octavio Dotel
RP Joel Hanrahan
RP Brendan Donnelly
RP Evan Meek

That leaves spots for one starter and three relievers. 

Unless someone like Chris Jakubauskas or Brad Lincoln swoops in with a great spring, the fifth starter job will be a competition between Daniel McCutchen and Kevin Hart. Both have options left, so the Pirates can send the loser to the minors. In a fair fight, McCutchen, who outpitched Hart last year, would win. But Hart was first in line for playing time last year, and because of his superior stuff and the fact that he's more of a groundball pitcher, the Pirates may give him the first crack at the job just to make sure, yet again, that he can't throw strikes as a starter. I wouldn't exactly cry my eyes out if that didn't happen, but I bet it will, although I think he'll be on a very short leash. So let's say Hart wins the fifth starter job. If McCutchen wins the job, I think Hart will have a good shot at a bullpen job, but if Hart wins, I think McCutchen heads back to Indianapolis.

In the bullpen, D.J. Carrasco is pretty darn close to the "near-lock" category. True, he's signed to a minor-league deal, but this is a guy who threw a ton of innings in a tough league and a tough ballpark last year, and still put up decent numbers. Of course his arm could explode at any time after throwing all those innings last year, but he's a pretty good pitcher, and he should and probably will get a spot.

That makes five pitchers in the 'pen so far, and no lefties. There is precedent for a team going with an all-righty bullpen, and actually Donnelly played in some all-righty 'pens for the Angels a few years back. I think the Pirates will be reluctant to go without a lefty, though. Donnelly, Hanrahan and Meek historically have handled lefties pretty well, but Dotel and Carrasco have not. So Javier Lopez, who is signed to a major-league deal, is pretty likely to get a spot--he and Donald Veal are the only lefty relievers on the 40-man roster, and the Pirates will probably want Veal to pitch as a starter in Indianapolis. So unless the Pirates really want to dig through the scrap heap for someone like Justin Thomas, Brian Burres, Jack Taschner or Wil Ledezma, Lopez is the guy. Neal Cotts could figure into the bullpen mix later in the season, but he won't be fully recovered from Tommy John surgery until the summer.

That leaves one spot, and the Pirates will have all kinds of options to sort through: Steven Jackson, Brian ("Don't call me Burres") Bass, Vinnie Chulk, Jeff Karstens, the loser of the Hart/McCutchen rotation battle, and others. Chulk might not be a bad choice, but my money is on Jakubauskas here--he's already on the 40-man roster (in contrast to someone like Jackson, who seemed to be a likely candidate before he was removed a few weeks back), he's capable of soaking up innings, and he didn't embarrass himself as a Mariner last season.

A dark horse for that last job, though, is Jean Machi. Machi has never been regarded as much of a prospect, but he put up nice numbers--albeit with low strikeout rates--at Altoona and Indianapolis last season, and then he was ridiculous in Venezuelan winter ball, posting a 1.95 ERA, racking up grounders, and striking out four times as many batters as he walked. No one took him in the Rule 5 draft, which might tell us something, but if he pitched well out of the gate in Spring Training, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the Pirates perked up and paid attention. Until that happens, I'm going with Jakubauskas. So here it is:

PITCHERS (12)

SP Paul Maholm
SP Ross Ohlendorf
SP Zach Duke
SP Charlie Morton
SP Kevin Hart
RP Octavio Dotel
RP Joel Hanrahan
RP Brendan Donnelly
RP Evan Meek
RP D.J. Carrasco
RP Javier Lopez
RP Chris Jakubauskas

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I agree...

but I think thje Pirates will want Dan McCutchen to really step up and win the job so they can use Kevin Hart in the bullpen.

by joegonzo on Feb 14, 2010 7:00 PM EST reply actions  

Outside of Jakubauskas, I think this is correct.

I suspect that the last bullpen spot is going to go to someone who isn’t currently on the 40-man, either a waiver claim in late spring or the return on a minor trade for someone like Moss. It’s also worth remembering that Ascanio comes back in May or June (according to the current plan, anyway), and is out of options.

Also, just to note: Karstens’s option situation probably doesn’t matter much, since he’s not currently on the 40-man.

by Vlad on Feb 14, 2010 7:09 PM EST reply actions  

I don’t know that Ascanio will be much of a factor into this year’s pitching staff. I know he’ll be back from surgery, and while I’m not implying career ending, labrum surgery really is as bad as it is made out to be. I think it’ll be next year before we see him

The glare of the spotlight is harsh, and the pressure that success breeds immense. We revere our heroes, but expect much. And criticism can come as easily as praise.

by glass0941 on Feb 14, 2010 7:17 PM EST up reply actions  

That was a shame...

because I really think he had the stuff to be the jewel of that trade. Labrum surgery is not pretty. Here’s to hoping he can come back.

by Slick1 on Feb 14, 2010 7:24 PM EST up reply actions  

If he's off the DL...

…then we HAVE to see him, or else risk losing him on waivers.

I don’t think he’ll be fully recovered, either, but I think he’ll be recovered enough that we’ll have to activate him. At which time, a roster decision will become necessary.

by Vlad on Feb 14, 2010 11:25 PM EST up reply actions  

If it is Jakubauskus I will be disappointed...

I’m just not sure what he brings to the table that we already didn’t have in Karstens. I agree that I think we’ll be picking someone else up before the season starts. I also think that McCutchen will win the job and Hart will end up in the pen.

by Slick1 on Feb 14, 2010 7:23 PM EST up reply actions  

He's cheaper than Karstens.

Karstens was getting ready to enter his first year of arb. Jakubauskas has two pre-arb seasons remaining.

Skill-wise, though, I think you’re right.

by Vlad on Feb 14, 2010 11:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Good point...

I had forgotten about Karsten’s arb clock.

by Slick1 on Feb 15, 2010 12:11 AM EST up reply actions  

Those off days in April get cashed by cancellations. The makeup games could negate all off days. You end up with a long continuous stretch after the canceled game.

I expect McCutchen to win the rotation spot and Hart to be in the pen.

I’m not convinced Carrasco or Lopez have locked down those spots. Carrasco could be overworked, assuming he’s not Solomon Torres. Lopez may not be any better against lefties than the borderline starters.

If Hart and Jakubauskas were both in the pen, the former’s stuff could be used in tougher situations.

Karstens and Jackson should be called up only when injuries require it. The Pirates bullpen has graduated beyond their ceiling of talent. (Mercifully.)

by Brother Anthony on Feb 14, 2010 8:53 PM EST reply actions  

If Jakubauskas make the team I hope this is the music he comes out of the Bullpen to

NSFW in some spots

Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Greg Llyod, Andy Russel, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene and Jerry Kramer
"the earth moves when Sean Payton walks...Because his balls are just that huge." Anarchon after Super Bowl XLIV
Canal Street Chronicles resident Steelers Fan

by WVPiratesfan on Feb 15, 2010 12:10 AM EST reply actions  

lets do this again

“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NisCkxU544c” >

Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Greg Llyod, Andy Russel, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene and Jerry Kramer
"the earth moves when Sean Payton walks...Because his balls are just that huge." Anarchon after Super Bowl XLIV
Canal Street Chronicles resident Steelers Fan

by WVPiratesfan on Feb 15, 2010 12:12 AM EST up reply actions  

He is Like a Baws

Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Greg Llyod, Andy Russel, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene and Jerry Kramer
"the earth moves when Sean Payton walks...Because his balls are just that huge." Anarchon after Super Bowl XLIV
Canal Street Chronicles resident Steelers Fan

by WVPiratesfan on Feb 15, 2010 10:24 AM EST up reply actions  

I think Charlie is pretty spot on

I do expect Hart to come north with the club and be given another shot. I think Jaks will be on the team if they go with 12 pitchers and that Machi will make an appearance after May 15. Lincoln will be up in June or so, and will either replace Duke (who will be traded) if Hart is pitching well or Hart/McCutchen if none of them step up.

In any case, the Pirates should have a 12 man staff by June 1.

by MarkInDallas on Feb 15, 2010 1:15 AM EST reply actions  

I cannot emphasize enough

the importance of the last spot in the rotation, because the rest of the set-up could be anywhere from half decent to pretty good. If the fifth guy bombs he undoes all the good the other four put up. I hate that we’re going in with basically two unproven commodities for the spot. (Not like Morton is all that proven either, but I like his chances much better.) If it turns into a rotating audition spot with three or four guys each getting six games to put up a 6 ERA (again) I’ll have to cut somebody.

by bucdaddy on Feb 15, 2010 10:03 AM EST reply actions  

Easy there, Stabby

I mean, I feel the same way, but I don’t actually think it’s that likely – I think the odds are against McCutchen, Hart, and Lincoln all failing – there’s simply more talent there than in the disastrous 5th slot of 2008.

Frankly, my concern on that front is farther up the rotation – any one of Duke, Ohlie, and Morton could easily post an ERA well over 5. In fact, I’ll be pleasantly surprised if none of them do.

In fact, that’s how I feel about this team as a whole (and we’ve talked about it a bit in some of the season-projecting threads): if every player performs just OK – not a breakout, not a best-case scenario – then we’ll be fine (maybe even 75+ win territory). But there’s not 3 position players or 2 SPs that I feel certain of. I’m no longer a 100-loss doomsayer, but it’s still eminently possible (especially if none of the AAA guys come through). Just once, I’d like the Pirates to have a season in which everything goes right (although I suppose I should save that wish for 2012).

by JRoth95 on Feb 15, 2010 2:01 PM EST up reply actions  

My take

is that individually all the top 4 starters are likely to have decent seasons, but chances are probably 50/50 at least one will not. But on the other hand, chances are that one of them will have a much better season than we expect as well.

by MarkInDallas on Feb 15, 2010 2:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah

I’m just not convinced that any of them are likely to be good enough to offset another being pretty bad.

IOW, if Duke has a 5.50 season* as the Bad Pitcher, the balancing performance is more likely to be Ohlie at 3.75, not Maholm at 1.85. I think Morton’s probably the only one with a really high upside (say, sub-2.50), just because we pretty much know the upside of Duke & Maholm, and Ohlie’s just not that great – I think his ceiling is a reliable #3.

We’ll see soon enough.

  • and yes, I know, ERA of course isn’t a good measure; it’s symbolic here

by JRoth95 on Feb 15, 2010 4:15 PM EST up reply actions  

If Duke has a 5.50 ERA season

Then that would be about 1 run worse than expected. You could easily have 2 pitchers like Morton and Maholm each get better by .5 runs.

by MarkInDallas on Feb 15, 2010 4:55 PM EST up reply actions  

We take someone just because he’s on the 40 man roster??? How hard is it really to take Jakubauskas off the 40-man and put someone else onto it? Maybe I’m missing something.

by Adam Reynolds on Feb 15, 2010 11:04 AM EST reply actions  

Barring injury,

Charlie’s list looks right on the mark to me.

Let’s play ball!

by patthatt on Feb 15, 2010 4:52 PM EST reply actions  

I don’t think Jakubauskas makes the team. My guess is McCutchen is will be there instead, and Hart will be in the pen. Even if McCutchen starts the year in AAA, I think (hope) we will find someone better than Jakubauskas.

by et_pitt on Feb 15, 2010 5:04 PM EST reply actions  

I think McCutchen wins a starting spot as well. Unless Hart can actually throw strikes consistently why have him in the pen?

by eyeofhorus777 on Feb 16, 2010 5:28 PM EST reply actions  

The five starters are decent with some possibilities but more question marks, the problem is with the rest of the staff, it’s horrible….there is nothing there…. the rest of the roster does not have enough power/ run production to overcome the weak pitching staff. Unless the Pirates get about 40-50 complete game victories ( and that’s not happening)say hello to a 100+ loss season….

by mackint on Feb 23, 2010 4:12 PM EST reply actions  

Yeah, like what happened, oh, 9 years ago.

You know, with a pitching staff 100 times worse.

Get a clue.

by ryebr3ad on Feb 23, 2010 8:23 PM EST up reply actions  

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