Neil Walker Catches in Spring Training
by Charlie Wilmoth on Feb 17, 2010 7:11 PM EST
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PrintIt may not mean anything, but Neil Walker strapped on catching gear today.
Another position change is not in the works, though, for the former first-round draft pick.
"Just exploring my options," Walker told me a few minutes ago by phone from Bradenton, Fla. "I’m trying to add value to myself and knock some of the rust off a little bit. I figured if there’s going to be a time to do it, it’d be now"...
Walker asked management if he could fill in at catcher if the team needed help during spring training. The last pitcher he caught in a game was Shane Youman in the Arizona Fall League in 2006. Walker figures it had been four or five years since he caught Duke...
By doing some work now behind the plate, Walker could help himself if (or, more likely, when) he moves on to another organization.
Anything can happen, but between Ryan Doumit, Jason Jaramillo and Tony Sanchez, Walker is pretty blocked at catcher. That certainly could change if Doumit gets hurt, if he so often does--in that case, Walker could make an excellent case for himself as a part-time catcher who can also fill in at third. Picking up the catching gear is also a good move for him if, as the article suggests, he ends somewhere else. The Pirates don't have much need for a Brandon Inge-type player right now, but another team might. For Walker, though, the surest path to a sustained big league career is hitting better. All the versatility in the world will be worth less to him than some on-base ability.
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Do you guys think Tony Sanchez is already better than Neil Walker? Sanchez hasn’t really done anything above A ball, but Neil Walker has been pretty bad since reaching AAA.
We won't know anything useful about Sanchez's bat...
…until he goes up against some pitchers who can throw the breaking ball for strikes. I.e. AA.
by Vlad on Feb 17, 2010 9:34 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Smart move by Walker....
I like Neil and would like to have seen him as an everyday player somewhere on the team, but that doesn’t look like that is going to happen. It’s good that he’s keeping his options open and staying positive in the media.
"Baseball is better than football. Think about it, eighty degrees, a cold beer and a short-sleeve shirt is better than 30 degrees, a hip flask and six layers of clothes under a lap blanket. Take your pick: suntan or frostbite. " - Thomas Boswell
I'm all for it!
I’ve been reading these blogs for a long time now and have wanted to join in on the conversations… so I felt now was the time haha… First of all I am all for a move back to catcher for Neil Walker…. There’s really no other place for him to get a chance to play and I still would like to see what he could do at the major league level… As much as i like doumit… I don’t believe he’s going to be here past this year… he has too much value not to trade for a rebuilding team… I say let walker and jaramillo split time at catcher until tony sanchez is ready while hopefully getting another piece to make this team great!
Walker is only 24
and obviously a good athlete so improving on his positional versatility will help him get a good chance-with Pittsburgh or elsewhere.
I'll go on record
as saying that I think Neil is still a good prospect, and still has a chance with the Bucs, even if it’s not at catcher. He’s still very young, and though the AAA walk rates are bad, the contact rates are good and the power last year as a 23-year-old was very impressive. Looking at his batted ball profile, it seems like he’s been getting a bit unlucky on balls in play in the last couple years. His cup of coffee last year wasn’t really a fair shot (40 PAs), so I don’t put too much stock in it. Total Zone doesn’t like his defense, but the scouting reports I’ve read have been positive.
Basically, I see a guy with good contact and power tools who can hold his own at 3b. CHONE predicts .262/.314/.434 for next year, which is not bad at all for a 24-year-old. I don’t understand why he’s getting no love from prospectors. I can easily envision a situation in which he’s the starting 3b for the 2011 Pirates.
I agree...
I think the general negativity comes with him being a number one draft pick and as such the expectations are higer. If he were taken in the 5th round I think most people would pleased somewhat with his progress. I agree with you that we should not give up on him yet and there is upside there however he does need to show some improvement in AAA to prove that he is ready.
Looks like Walker is deciding that the 2010 version of Rob Mackowiak is the best route for him to the majors.
Whatever gets him there...
I’d rather of Neil Walker on the team over Young and Vasquez at this point.
I think if they bring him up, there should be a chance to play at least semi-regularly. I don’t know that giving him pinch hitting duty is going to help him much. It’s better for him to be working in AAA.
by MarkInDallas on Feb 17, 2010 11:13 PM EST up reply actions
I agree...
I wasn’t suggesting bringing him up before he is ready. I would just rather see him as a future utility player than either of the two I mentioned.
Sure, I agree. Walker probably will field better than either of them and has a chance to be at least as good with the bat. I think his problem has been his drive to succeed, however. He always has seemed content to just get by and feel like he belongs at each level. That kind of thinking isn’t going to get it done.
by MarkInDallas on Feb 17, 2010 11:45 PM EST up reply actions
I think Walker still has potential.
This is going to be a very important year for him. He’s got to really show something for an extended period of time in AAA. If he can hit around .300 and get his OBP up around .360, then I would like to see him get a shot along with Jaramillo if Doumit goes down. Of course, this is if his defense at catcher is OK.
everyone knows my opinion of Walker already, haha
With that being said I’m glad to hear that Neil is doing everything he can to make this team, or atleast establish value to stay around. I always thought Neil would add alot of value to this organization if he could make a move to 2nd much like has been mentioned about Andy LaRoche. He proved he handled the move to 3rd very well, so I could see a move to 2nd in the future. Then at that point his low avg./OBP don’t look as bad, and you have someone who can play C, 2b, 3b; which becomes pretty valuable. As far as his bat I don’t think anyone questions his power, or gap to gap power, but its his patience at the plate that really scares you. If he can get his OBP up, and take more walks then I think he’ll be a main stay on this roster for years to come; whether its as a super utility guy, or starter. I really think at this point though he’d be best suited as a super utility guy. If he were able to play 2-3 positions he could find himself 2-3 starts a week, and pinch hitting duties which in turn would lead to alot of ABs.
by FusilliJerry88 on Feb 17, 2010 11:14 PM EST reply actions
Wow
Lot of love out there for a guy who can’t hit and can’t play any position very well.
Who, in short, sucks.
whats your reasoning?
If your going to state that a player “sucks” please atleast tell us why you think so? I would’nt exactly say someone sucks who hits 25-30 doubles, 10-15 Hrs, and 70-80 RBIs every year hes been in the minors. It’s just his avg./OBP is his only red flag at this point; no ones ever questioned if he can play the field or not, so your evaluation of him not being able to play any position very well is in accurate. If he can become more patient at the plate he will be a very suitable major league player. Every just knows that he was a 1st round pick, and have very high expectations for him. I don’t think it’s a total failure if he does’nt become a major league starter; he can still become very affective off the bench.
by FusilliJerry88 on Feb 17, 2010 11:51 PM EST up reply actions
Hey, I’m just jokin’ man. My true opinion is more up in my other post. I think he’s got potential because he has quick wrists on the bat and he’s athletic. So, I still hold out hope for him. Like I said, I think his biggest drawback has been his lack of drive to be better than anyone else. I just haven’t seen that, and reports are that he’s starting to get the message that turning it on for a month or so doesn’t get you to Pittsburgh. He’s got to be consistent and hungry. If he can show that in AAA, I’d like to see him again in Pittsburgh.
by MarkInDallas on Feb 18, 2010 12:00 AM EST up reply actions
Mark, that was directed at "bucdaddy"
I read your original post about Walker, and agree that he has potential but has done nothing to warrant playing in Pittsburgh. At the same time I don’t think he’s been that terrible that we should just release, or give him away.
As far as he defense goes I never read any reports about his defensive skills as a Catcher being below average. After being drafted he was originally projected to stay as a Catcher, and as far as I remember they moved him to third, because they thought his bat would develop better, and longevity issues. Then after he made the move to third I remember reading scouting reports that he went above, and beyond everyones expectations at third, and that he was one of the better prospects defensively at third. So defense has never been a question with Walker; whether its been at Catcher, or at third. and some have even said he could play the outfield. It’s always been whether he can consistantly hit; which right now he has’nt proved that, but don’t be surprised to see a consistant year this year from Neil…
by FusilliJerry88 on Feb 18, 2010 5:59 PM EST up reply actions
I'd say
OBP is a BIG red flag, and IIRC he got moved from catcher to third because he sucked as a catcher. Can I get a witness? If he’s Brooks Robinson at third, I have yet to hear/read about it.
“If he can become more patient at the plate …”
I used to say stuff like that about Chris Duffy. I learned my lesson.
Whether defense was Littlefield's true motive...
…for moving him or not, he was drawing a large number of extremely bad reviews from scouts for his skills behind the plate at the time he was moved.
by Vlad on Feb 18, 2010 8:10 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Two points
He always looked stiff and mechanical behind the plate. So, even though he’s a very good athlete, he couldn’t become a good catcher. (He’s pretty big for a catcher.) That leads me to a comment about Sanchez. We all know the difficulties of quantifying catching defense, but it’s not too hard to see with scouting. As fans who have not seen Sanchez play, we tend to focus on what we can see in print, namely batting. But premium defense at a premium defensive position in a player with a chance to be an average to plus hitter is well worth a high draft choice. If we passed over Johnny Bench or Gary Carter to draft Sanchez, we should be upset. But we did not. My sense is that taking Sanchez at 4 reflected a sense that defense is undervalued because it’s hard to quantify and PBC was confident in their scouts’ read on his skills there.
Viva Clemente!
Yes and no
As Vlad says, reports when he was a full-time C weren’t great. But I’ve heard very good things about him at 3B – I think that in 2008 someone in the organization said he was the best defensive 3B in his league. Even discounting for talking up your own guys, that suggests the guy’s no slouch there.
To me the question is how he can get enough ABs to establish his bat – he has no position in Indy, and I don’t think you can gauge much about a young player’s hitting when he’s learning a new position or switching every game.
Good point, JRoth. I had thought that letting him try 2b was the obvious choice, but I hadn’t thought about how learning a new position (esp. 2b) might affect his hitting.
secondbase
I’ve been saying that for over a year now that Walkers only way to be an everyday player for the Pirates at this point would be a move to secondbase. But like you mentioned the move to secondbase will probably affect his bat; just like I believe it did when he made the move from catcher to third a couple of years ago.
Considering Walker has no position coming into this year, I think management should start him off this year at Indy playing secondbase, and batting in the middle of the order with Alvarez. If he can play the position at an average to above average rate, and bat in the lower half of the order I think everyone will look past his low OBP, and still consider him a valuable player.
I think the best comparision there is right now is someone like Ben Zobrist. He was traded to the Rays as a shortstop, but is blocked at that position, and has been able to play a couple different positions since joining. Hes now going into the year as the Rays starting secondbasemen. Last year he put up a .400 OBP, but CHONE has him this year hitting .268, 16 HR, 68 RBI, and .360 OBP. While Walker may never get his OBP up to 360-400 range he could very well match the rest of Zobrists’ numbers. And Zobrist was an all star last year…
by FusilliJerry88 on Feb 18, 2010 6:14 PM EST up reply actions
The best comp that I see...
…is Brandon Inge. Above-average defensive 3B with good power but no OBP at all, plus a catching background.
i agree
His OBP is a BIG red flag, but at this point it’s really his only red flag. I believe CHONE has him below .300 in OBP which is terrible, but if he can get that figured out all the other tools are there. So I’d give Neil one more year before you start saying that he literally “sucks”. We have some far worse prospects at this point….atleast Walker still has some potential left; whether it be as an everyday player, or a super utility guy….
by FusilliJerry88 on Feb 18, 2010 6:03 PM EST up reply actions
BTW
Walker or someone else, I really want to see an emergency catcher on the 25-man. It drives me nuts to see a guy effectively unavailable every day because we don’t have an emergency C if the starter goes out after the backup pinch-hits. I understand the precaution – I remember the game the Steelers lost when their long-snapper got hurt – but it’s frustrating, especially with the short bench we always carry – if you pinch hit for the starter in the 6th and do a double-switch in the 7th inning, you’re down to effectively 2 PHs.
could always let a SP (who’s not scheduled for a couple of days) strap on the gear for a couple of digs…
Sometimes I tell myself (Squirrel, YOU are a genius!)
XD
by BlindSquirrel on Feb 18, 2010 7:19 PM EST up reply actions
I think this premise is wrong
Even with an “emergency” catcher, Russell, and probably most other managers, will rarely use a C to pinch hit.
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