Pirates Discuss Reducing Zach Duke's Workload
Personally, I think the Pirates could accomplish this by removing him from any game in which he's pitching a no-hitter. What do you think?
about 2 years ago
Charlie Wilmoth
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Ugh
I can’t say I like seeing the Pirates putting so much weight on small samples, not to mention the fact that Duke’s Sept./Oct. FIP was his best of the season, including season-best strikeout and groundball rates. Stuff like this makes me so furious. Can’t NH or Dan Fox take the coaches aside and explain this stuff to them?
Agreed
Duke had a start at the end of the year where he couldn’t get out of the first inning and almost every ball was a seeing eye single?
I wish I remembered the game, because it was the most unlucky first inning I had ever seen.
by Maxwell.C on Feb 20, 2010 11:09 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Why is the Pirates braintrust concerned about Duke’s workload?? It’s not like he’s gonna be on the roster on August 1st. He’ll be on someone else’s roster.
it's not crazy
I’d expect to see duke gone in june or july, especially if he gets off to a good start.
by johnnycuff on Feb 20, 2010 11:15 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Why
Because you think he won’t be as good as the stats say or what?
well no
Because he’s approaching free agency and I think he’s replaceable. I don’t imagine the pirates will be in the thick of the race in june or approaching the deadline. If his value is high then it only adds to the potential return.
by johnnycuff on Feb 21, 2010 11:42 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
He’s not a free agent until after 2011. If the Pirates think they can contend in 2011, I imagine they’ll keep him around. A lot of questions to answer before July, that’s for sure.
not at all sure about that
I thought they’d have traded him this offseason, after a fairly good year. Now, if he doesn’t have a good start, he doesn’t have trade value, and if he does, then you have to wonder if his 2009 was for real, and if he’s finally putting it together as a consistent ML starter.
Overall, I agree with johnnycuff- if you can get good value, trade him. At this point, I feel he’s replaceable.
I do think they will trade Duke this year.
But ultimately it will be determined if they can replace him with someone likely to be better. If either Hart, Lincoln or Veal shows they are going to be better and Duke show that he is what he is, I see him traded.
On the other hand, if Duke shows he might have room for improvement and nobody else steps up, then they might try to extend him at least a year and keep him next year.
If things work out the way I expect, then Duke will be seen as our 5th best pitcher. And there’s no way the #5 pitcher on the Pirates is going to be kept into their free agency years.
by MarkInDallas on Feb 21, 2010 1:26 PM EST up reply actions
Right
But if he plays well enough to be worth some nice prospects at the deadline, and the fact he would be also under control for 2011 increases that prospect value, then he could go this year.
If he is not seen as a nice piece for a stretch run, then sure he will not be traded.
by MarkInDallas on Feb 21, 2010 3:15 PM EST up reply actions
it wouldn’t be the first time we traded a player with a year and a half of franchise control remaining – remember jason bay? with bay it was contract and not arb years but effectively they’re the same. that itself makes him more valuable for a team because they’re trading for a season and a half, not just 3 months of a player. for good references on what he might be worth i’d probably look into the joe blanton rumors.
I’m not saying we won’t trade Duke this year. But if it looks like we can compete in 2011, why would we? He’s a proven, above-average starting pitcher under team control. We definitely don’t have enough pitching to make a guy like that expendable if we’re trying to win. We traded Bay because we were not going to contend with him around. If the situation is different with Duke, I imagine we’d keep him. Besides, there must be a reason they didn’t trade him last season when his ERA was 3.2 and they were trading everyone else.
I guess we’ll see how the year progresses. In my mind, I find it hard to see the value in paying free agent prices for your 5th starter. I have a higher opinion of Ohlie than you do, so I see Maholm, Morton and Ohlie all better than Duke. If Hart or Lincoln is also better than Duke, then Duke is #5. We might even find that both Hart and Lincoln are better than Duke, and then Duke is #6.
We won’t know the answer to these questions until the year plays out. Maybe Duke improves and shows himself to be better than I am thinking. Still, it’s telling that he doesn’t have an option year after his club control years. Huntington will have to get that done sometime this year to avoid losing him for nothing after 2011.
by MarkInDallas on Feb 22, 2010 1:36 PM EST up reply actions
I’m not talking about paying free agent prices. I’m talking about paying him arb prices for his final year of arb. And there’s nothing wrong with paying free agent prices for a fifth starter as long as you’re paying for a fifth starter. Duke doesn’t have an option year because he wants to go year-to-year instead of signing an extension. We’ll get draft picks if we don’t trade Duke before he hits free agency.
Your second paragraph is classic Mark v. epoc. If you don’t know now that Duke is better than Ohlendorf and Hart, I don’t see why you think you’ll know a year from now.
The draft picks that you get for a type A or B free agent are not equal worth to what you can normally get in a trade. So, if we do have a pitcher that will likely do as well as Duke in the #5 spot, then it’s better to trade Duke and get something better for him – as long as we are not losing wins because of it.
by MarkInDallas on Feb 22, 2010 11:07 PM EST up reply actions
this just in
I was down at spring training complex and just walking around and see a guy with a Jugs gun pointing it a Duke and Mahlom. Some security types come over and confront him ,than they call someone and than it looks like they apologize and walk away. Mean while about 30 minutes later Church is patting the same guy on the back and have a friendly chat .So I go up to one of security guy ‘s and ask what was going on and he said it was a scout from the mets and that’s all he can say. I thought its real early to be scouting for the season so maybe something brewing already with Duke and Malohm.
Duke and Russell
All I could think of is how Russell took Duke out of the Bucs’ home finale last year with two outs in the ninth inning to a rousing crescendo of season-ticket holder boo’s.
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