So, When do we Start Paying Attention?
by JRoth95 on Mar 11, 2010 6:03 PM EST
19 comments
Everyone knows that Spring Training records are meaningless. Everyone knows that Spring Training stats are meaningless. The Ghost of Mark Johnson demands that we not get excited about players who perform well, and countless players have flipped a switch on Opening Day after abysmal springs.
Nevertheless, we're following the games, are we not? Presumably the players are down there for more than wind sprints. Management seems to draw some sort of conclusions from what they see in Florida.
So my question is: do you draw any conclusions from anything you see? If Clement looks lost, if Walker looks like a first round pick after all, if Hart gives up 5 runs in every start while No Relation is perfect the rest of the way... does any of that matter? Or are the assignments essentially set in February, once we know who's healthy and who bothered to show up in decent condition?
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of the managing editor (Charlie) or SB Nation. FanPosts are written by Bucs Dugout readers.
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Well that's annoying
That link is to the wrong Mark Johnson, which I knew before I posted, which is why I unchecked his name when the blog software offered it up. Oh well.
Fixed.
This is a really good question. I’m reminded of something I once read about gaffes by presidential candidates—they’re damaging only when they fit the reputation the candidate already had. So the Howard Dean scream, for example, was really bad because people already thought that Dean was kind of a loose cannon. I think it’s kind of like that in Spring Training, where it looks really bad when Kevin Hart implodes because he’s done that a lot before. I think that if Paul Maholm imploded, no one would really care because it doesn’t fit the narrative about Maholm. Not sure if that’s right or not, but that’s how people think.
Sort of what I'm thinking as well.
None of the established starters are going to play themselves out of a job in ST – I don’t think that many people care about Andy and Clement having matching .158 BA’s at this point. Fringe players like Hart (0.14 K/BB), Jakubauskas (2.50 WHIP), and Moss (0-for-ST) might take themselves out of the equation, though, and one or more of those guys may have already.
On the other hand, John Raynor and Neil Walker are looking a little more desirable as bench pieces than they were a few weeks ago.
Hey, an out is an out - unless you're Mario, in which case it's probably two outs. -UtesFan89
Why can't Mendy bust a long TD run? We could use it.
This sounds about right
The one thing I’d add is that, for some of these guys at least, it’s the first time the big league coaches are paying them much attention (and seeing them apples-to-apples with more established players), and so can get a sort of fresh look that’s otherwise unavailable. That probably doesn’t much apply to Walker, who’s been in camp a couple times before, but surely would for a Raynor, whom none of the Pittsburgh personnel would have seen in person before.
For all the back and forth about scouts vs. stats, the reality is that virtually all fans must rely on stats, because they simply can’t see enough in person, whereas the pros have a choice – John Russell can look at B-R just as well as we can, but he also has access to countless eyewitness encounters with ballplayers.
Which doesn’t mean he’ll choose well, of course….
I draw
Essentially no conclusions because spring training means less than nothing — yes there is actually such a thing.
I would look at Clement’s defense or other small things like that, but I take really no big assessments from pitching or hitting side of things during this time.
Maybe you scrutinize the bench guys a bit more during this time, but if they liked someone like Raynor before they drafted him, I assume they just want a little extra confidence in the pick by seeing something from him during this time — but that may be as much off-the-field stuff as on-the-field stuff that we get to see in the box score.
throwing strikes
hart- must start trowing strikes or this competition is over.
clement – where is the hitting thing going to start.
moss- with church a left handed outfield bat coming off the bench where does moss figure in the equation.
vazquez or d.young- one won’t make the team , they will try to trade vazquez .
bullpen- I guess this will shake out, still way to early but vinnie chulk is looking good.
trades- moss, vaquez, d,young , pierce, just a few guys who might be shopped before we come north.
It May Be Too Early But
…we’ve seen the last of Moss and Pearce. I’ve caught video of a few games on YES, MLB, and the computer. Moss looks terrible at the plate. Pearce slightly less so. Don’t know why, but I think they’ve had, and have blown, their chances….
Just my two pfennigs…..
I'd be surprised if they drop Pearce this spring.
He still has an option remaining, which allows them to defer judgment on him, if they’d like.
True that...
…I forgot about that. But to see him and Moss time and time again have unproductive at bats – not just striking out or grounding out, but failing to move a runner over, failing to get in a run w/a man on 3rd and less than two outs – they’re paving their way out the door, I think.
by Trogluddite on Mar 11, 2010 11:10 PM EST up reply actions
I'm entirely sympathetic to frustrations with Pearce...
…but purely in the interest of fairness, I have to point out that when he came up in exactly that situation against the Yankees on Tuesday, he did get the run home with a sac fly.
Moss, I suspect, may have already played his way off the roster, given their inclinations against him.
precisely
We don’t know (exactly) what everyone is trying to do out there. We can guess, and sometimes they tell us, but we aren’t necessarily getting the whole truth. So given that what they might be trying to do could interfere with results, I like to see players looking like the they know what they are doing.
Clement is a good example. At his new position, he’s done everything right. Not looking perfect, but he looks like he could be a first baseman, and isn’t making mental mistakes over there. Even though he has a lot on his plate defensively, he’s still doing his job at the plate. He doesn’t have a lot of hits, but his approach seems sound. He’s had some good patience at the plate working counts and looking for pitches to hit (earned a few walks there). To me, he looks like he fits right now.
Jason
The Hanging Curve
by poorboywilly on Mar 12, 2010 11:54 AM EST up reply actions
Now is the time...
to work out the bugs. Some of the bugs appear to be still very alive…especially with one or two of the pitchers.
If I ever have to see Virgil Vazquez in a Pirates’ uni again it may kill me. Can we just get rid of this guy already?
Banish him.
Buy him a Peyton Manning jersey and say “Enjoy your life in Indianapolis.”
by IAPiratesFan on Mar 12, 2010 3:47 PM EST up reply actions
Not enough.
I’d go for a Jack Ham Penn State jersey.
Hey, an out is an out - unless you're Mario, in which case it's probably two outs. -UtesFan89
Why can't Mendy bust a long TD run? We could use it.
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