Your 2012 Pirates
by psudynasty on Mar 13, 2010 10:33 AM EST
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PrintPublications such as Baseball America and Sporting News put out their predictions for what the 2012 lineups will be for MLB teams. I thought it'd be interesting to see the different opinions from this site as to who will start where, why, and who will be traded. If this has already been done recently, then I apologize.
2012 Lineup
C- Tony Sanchez
1B- Garrett Jones
2B- Andy LaRoche
SS- Chase d'Arnaud
3B- Pedro Alvarez
LF- Lastings Milledge
CF- Andrew McCutchen
RF- Jose Tabata
Bench: C- Luke Carlin, IF- Delwyn Young, Brian Friday. OF- Brandon Jones/Gorkys Hernandez
SP- Maholm, Morton, Ohlendorf, Lincoln, Alderson
CP- Hanrahan
Traded: Duke and Doumit. Also don't think Clement will hit enough to stick around.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of the managing editor (Charlie) or SB Nation. FanPosts are written by Bucs Dugout readers.
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3 of those 5 on the bench...
won’t be in the organization by then. Carlin…Young…and at least one of the OF.
Agreed.
If DY is still on the roster in 2012, there’s some thing very, very wrong.
Also, I think it’s less than a 50% chance that GFJ is still wearing the black and gold by then.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Mar 13, 2010 5:37 PM EST up reply actions
I hope our rotation is better than that. I’ll guess that one of the HS kids/high upside guys Huntington has drafted in the past couple of years is in there.
Also, I don’t see Garrett Jones as a major league regular still in two years.
2012 is probably still a little too early to see the HS pitchers from the 2009 draft.
by MarkInDallas on Mar 13, 2010 1:27 PM EST up reply actions
Not really...
for someone like ZVR who is considered really advanced. Even if there are none of them though, I could still see guys like Brett Lorin, Q Miller, Jeff Inman, Nate Baker, and Rudy Owens competing for a spot in the rotation with guys like Uvjedo, Black, Aguero, Moreno, and Danny Moskos competing for spots in the bullpen and hitters like Brock Holt, Starling Marte, and Jarek Cunningham competing for spots in the field. Also, you shouldn’t rule out our 2010 and 2011 first round picks if they are college guys and potential free agent singings or guys we get from trades of players like Duke, Doumit, Maholm, Ohlendorf, Jones, and Dotel who should all be available.
In other words, it’s basically impossible to tell who will be a part of the 2012 Pirates. Other than McCutchen and Alvarez, is there anyone who deserves better than 50/50 odds?
quite right
i might say, in answer, that tony sanchez and tabata should have better than 50/50 odds, but I wouldnt be surprised at all to see Milledge, Jones and Andy not around!
sorry...
didnt finish reading replies.
by BlindSquirrel on Mar 14, 2010 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions
i don’t see Gorkeys being up with the pirates at Altoona he didn’t seem too impressive I know I know he’s young but he looked terrible in the gams i saw him in
this
i certainly dont see him being up as a bench player, although its possible… the rest of the bench looks entirely iffy to me… brian friday is possible, but oh well, its impossible to predict benches/bullpens even more than the rest of the lineup
im a fan of gorkys, he has great speed and defense, if he can improve his offense i could see him being a fairly successful player.
i sort of cut myself in mid-thought there
I meant unless management gives up on him completely, gorkys will be playing everyday in AAA, or be up in the majors. I don’t see him being on the bench in the bigs.
Even if the batting order is everything we’ve dreamed about, the Bucs don’t have enough pitching to make noise as soon as ’12.
So what do they do if they really want a competitive team in three years? You can draft a potential, close to the majors ace this year, but we all know (and have discussed plenty) the failure rate with that plan.
There’s free agency to get a nice SP or two, although there’s a fine line between a savvy signing like Rich Harden with Texas and one that actively hurts the club like Jeff Suppan with the Brewers.
Finally there’s the trade option, but then you’re basically getting arms other teams don’t have use for. Gems can be had that way, but it is tougher to improve on the rotation.
The lineup could be formidable, but the acquisition of improved hurlers could hold the key if the hitting is great (which is not given).
1 year at $7.5 million doesn’t seem too bad even with the problems if he could be good for around 140 productive innings.
by Adam Reynolds on Mar 14, 2010 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions
There has been some posts about the 2011 Pirates; not 2012
This is a cool post…always fun to talk about the future; especially since there is’nt much to talk about right now, and nothing to talk about in the past 15, or so years.
I agree with pretty much the whole lineup…I think Sanchez will definetely be major league ready by 2012, if not 2011. I expect a big year from Gorkys though which will put alot of pressure on management on what to do with G Jones/Clement/Milledge. I don’t see G Jones sticking in the outfield even if he’s hitting, so it’ll be whoevers hitting better between G Jones, and Clement that plays 1st base. Then I think Milledge is the odd man out in the outfield.
I’m confident with saying our 2012 outfield with be Gorkys, McCutchen, and Tabata. Gorkys has too much talent with his speed, and defensive skills to not put it together sooner rather than later. He would cover PNCs left field very well, and could bat leadoff allowing us to move McCutchen into the 3 hole. A 3-4 of McCutchen, and Alvarez would be very dangerous.
I also expect Milledge to have a solid year, but I don’t think he’ll ever provide enough power to play a corner outfield position, or enough speed to be a top of the order hitter. I expect Tabata to do much of the same, thus we can’t afford to have 2 of those players at the 2 corner outfield positions…
by FusilliJerry88 on Mar 14, 2010 12:24 AM EST reply actions
My lineup:
Andrew McCutchen (CF)
Andy LaRoche (2B)
Garrett Jones (1B)
Pedro Alvarez (3B)
Tony Sanchez © (He’s just that good)
Lastings Milledge (LF)
Jose Tabata (RF)
Chase d’Arnaud (SS)
Charlie Morton (SP)
Brad Lincoln (SP)
Ross Ohlendorf (SP)
Tim Alderson (SP)
Paul Maholm (SP)
I think that many of the 2009 pitchers will be very close to arrival, and that Starling Marte may also be close to being ready. Also, I put Garrett Jones in only because I couldn’t think of a different 1B to put in, but I don’t think Jones will be the starting 1B by that time. I also have Starling Marte close to being ready to replace Tabata or Milledge, but we’ll see on that one.
I'll go with...
1. Gorkys Hernandez LF
2. Jose Reyes (FA) or Christian Colon (draft) SS
3. Andrew McCutchen CF
4. Pedro Alvarez 3B
5. Jose Tabata RF
6. Jeff Clement or Garrett Jones 1B
7. Andy LaRoche 2B
8. Tony Sanchez C
1. Josh Beckett (FA), Jeff Francis (FA), Deck Mcguire (draft)
2. Charlie Morton
3. Brad Lincoln
4. Paul Maholm
5. Tim Alderson
I think this team is another year, or two of development, and a top of the rotation starter/shortstop away from competing in our division…
by FusilliJerry88 on Mar 14, 2010 6:11 AM EST up reply actions
no way
they will pay big bucks for Beckett or Reyes let alone both, though i would love to see us take colon (if he starts hitting again)
FusilliJerry
An OF of the 3 you mention would be known for good defense, but where’s the power?
What’s the point of playing fantasy baseball with the inclusion of a bunch of future FAs that we know the Pirates couldn’t afford?
Also, I doubt we’ll build a contending team with Clement, Jones and LaRoche playing starting roles.
Let’s see Clement do anything at first or backup C to even justify a roster spot in ’10.
If LaRoche is still around, I bet it will be more in a backup IF role.
Jones still has to prove last year wasn’t a fluke-I think he will have a productive year this one-but a lineup mainstay in ’12? Doubtful.
Barring injury, Cutch, Alvarez, and Sanchez are the only everyday players you mention that I expect to be starting for sure for the Bucs in 2012.
"There's nothing left to do but get drunk."
Franklin Pierce
I could see a 2.5 win player like Andy LaRoche as a starter on a contending team. The problem is that we can’t get away with 0.0 win replacement players in the lineup or rotation. That’s a bigger problem than either LaRoche has been.
by Adam Reynolds on Mar 14, 2010 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions
I have a couple of problems with your post...
1.) You ask wheres the power from the outfield?
Since when are homeruns the only thing that matter in baseball? Are you implying that the Pirates have to hit a ton of homeruns to win? That’s crazy talk…last year the Rangers led the league with 260 homeruns, and the Reds clubbed 222 homeruns; neither team even sniffed the playoffs. The N.L champion Phillies hit 167 which is only roughly 25 more than last years Pirates. That was with no Alvarez, and half years from Jones/McCutchen. My point is that power production is not key to a competitive season from this team. The 2008 Tampa Bay Rays team that went to the World Series had a starting outfield of Carl Crawford (8 HR), BJ Upton (9 HR), and Gabe Gross (13 HR); They did that while in the AL East as well. The Pirates have to model themselves after teams like the Rays…Good pitching, good defense, and good team speed.
2.) What’s the point of playing fantasy baseball?
Well, the point was just to have a little fun I did’nt know anyone was going to take it so seriously. The point of it was to showcase where I thought the Pirates’ biggest weaknesses were. I don’t see anyone in our organization thats going to be our #1 starter, or our SS of the future; thus implying that if this team is ready to compete come 2012 I think you will see the Pirates go out, and fill one, or both of those holes through Free agency…
3.) You doubt we’ll be a contending team with guys like Clement, Jones, and Laroche?
I don’t. There are contending teams right now that would kill for a bargain player like Jones, and Laroche right now. Your living in some sort of fantasy land if you think the Pirates are going to contend without the value players mentioned above. As far as Clement, yes he needs to prove what he can do at the major league level, but how quickly we forget he’s a top 3 overall draft pick that once led the nation in HRs. This guy can hit…he has 7 major league HRs in only roughly 200 major league ABs. That’s on pace for 20+ HRs over a full season of ABs…
by FusilliJerry88 on Mar 14, 2010 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions
hmm...
I wonder what I was looking at then? sorry about that…
Either way; my point is that there are alot of bad teams that don’t win alot of games, but hit alot of homeruns. Heck the Toronto Blue Jays hit over 200 HRs last year, and they were a bad team…
by FusilliJerry88 on Mar 14, 2010 8:27 PM EDT up reply actions
FusilliJerry
I have some problems with your reply.
First, I never said homeruns are “the only thing that matter in baseball”. I was speaking specifically about your potential 2012 OF. Gorkys Hernandez has shown no HR potential whatsoever. As a matter of fact, his minor league stats overall give me little reason to see him as a LF candidate long-term in Pittsburgh alongside Cutch. Put Hernandez in LF and it reminds me of Nyj Morgan and not much more upside.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=hernan002gor
There’s a reason the team is banking on Lastings Milledge in LF. They are looking forward to hopefully some good power/run production at the plate and solid defense.
Cutch was better than advertised in ’09, especially with his run production. We hope that he keeps it up and gets even better over the next few years. We shall see.
Tabata has shown little power production so far in the minors. I see a darn good average hitter on the way, though.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=tabata001jos
My point is that I don’t see Gorkys Hernandez as part of a winning OF in ’12 if Cutch and Tabata are your other two regulars.
Second, it still makes no sense to predict any version of the ‘12 Pirates by pulling fantasy names out of a hat. Anybody can dream what they want on the Bucs’ roster in a couple of years. The point of other posters prior to you was to put forward a roster based on internal candidates, not “some sort of fantasy land” as you did.
Finally, Jeff Clement has to prove he can even play at all in the big leagues, Garrett Jones has to show more than a half season, and Andy LaRoche has to do more, especially at the dish, to justify a spot as big league regular with Pittsburgh, or anywhere else for that matter.
I never said they don’t have value/potential value to the Bucs in ’10. My point is that I highly doubt they will be three important regular cogs in the everyday lineup for the Pirates in ’12.
"There's nothing left to do but get drunk."
Franklin Pierce
we could argue all day...
But the fact your attacking me for apparently “pulling fantasy names out of a hat” is enough of a reason I’m not going to give you the time of day…In my defense; I was’nt “pulling fantasy names out of a hat”; I mentioned names at positions I don’t feel we have an internal option at, and all the names I mentioned are’nt as far fetched as you may think.
As far as you calling Gorkys Hernandez ceiling Nyjer Morgan; I think that’d be a compliment, and something that the Pirates would love to have. I’ll take a younger Nyjer Morgan on my team anyday…a possible .300 avg/.400 OBP, 40-50 steals, and above average range in a big left field with gold glove potential? I’ll trade that for a few homeruns anyday…
by FusilliJerry88 on Mar 15, 2010 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions
no one is "attacking" anyone
its just not even close to being possible for the PITTSBURGH PIRATES to have BECKETT, REYES, MCCUTCHEN, ALAVEREZ, and a 2 year older Pualy Mal, who isn’t going to want to take a pay cut, they talk about payroll maturing as our internal players age, there’s no way possible they will be able to add 2 type A’s to that maybe a couple second teir guys but not top guys like that (who also won’t be young by 2012). But maybe that’s just me.
by hilltoppeer on Mar 16, 2010 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions
"a 2 year older Pualy Mal"
Did anybody else just totally lose the thread of what’s going on here? ’Cause I sure did.
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