Elijah Dukes?
by Skipper22 on Mar 17, 2010 10:23 AM EDT
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PrintI know, I know we have 96 outfielders, but Elijah Dukes, I mean he is the poster child of Neal Huntington's FA signees. Guys who fall out of favor with their organizations, it didnt say why he was released but Im sure its not a good reason. Im a big NL fan and have followed him since coming over from TB. With his athletic ability and power potential I would put up with his big mouth and bad sportmanship. What do you guys think, just trying to fill the void in my life till April.
I
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No no no no no....
…I’ve loved the NH “go after the out of favor guy”, but this would NOT be good. Dukes is, simply put, a maniac. Letting him anywhere near Cutch would be a disaster.
Also, I think it’s important to point out that Milledge seems to consider Pittsburgh a completely fresh start for him. Acquiring Dukes would seem to be jeopardize that.
This is one time I’d pass up the talent.
Come on Neal!
They just said that it has nothing to do with off-field-issues, so I wonder why, maybe its b/c he cant hit anything off speed. Sign him and cut Brandon Jones, Dukes is an upgrade in every aspect over him except BJ is lefty.
If
he still has a minor league option, and he didn’t do something illegal, I say he’d be an upgrade to Brandon Jones and I’d be midly excited if we signed him. Although, I’d assume there would be better offers out there for him.
by Danatural08 on Mar 17, 2010 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions
the MLBTR article says that he does indeed have a minor league option. we could sign him and sent him to indy (basically as a tryout) for a few months to kick the tires and if we don’t like what we get or if he’s genuinely a nuisance, cut him loose without having lost much. being that tabata is the only interesting player in the indy outfield, it doesn’t sound like the worst idea i’ve ever heard.
good point
It may hurt Lastings’s growth so far with the organization, or everyones. But I love talent.
I came here to post the same thing
First thing I thought when I saw Dukes was released was, “That’s Huntington’s type of guy.” I don’t think it will happen just because there is no room in the outfield. Obviously Cutch is set in center and I don’t think the Pirates are ready to move Milledge out of left. The only way I see this happening is if the Pirates aren’t sold on Clement and are willing to move Garret Jones to first base, but I don’t see that happening, at least not until Clement has a couple months to prove himself.
PECOTA projects Dukes at .246/.358/.423 with 16 HR and 10 SB in 494 PA. I’ll take those numbers from a guy who turns 26 in June. However, I think this is a situation where you have to take those numbers with a huge grain of salt with Dukes’ history of attitude and off-the-field problems. I also wonder if maybe he might be a bad influence on Milledge and/or vice versa. That being said, I’d be somewhat excited if the Bucs signed him.
Other projection sytems
CHONE: .262/.364/.446, 15 HR
MARCEL: .255/.355/.430, 13 HR
Both those come from his Fangraphs page
While the Nats aren’t a model franchise, they aren’t complete idiots either. You gotta figure that if they’re releasing a guy with this type of talent, there’s something going on that we haven’t heard about yet. Either problems in the clubhouse or another brush with the law. I hope NH would think long and hard before signing a guys with Dukes’ history if the Nats did release him for one of those reasons.
Although this is the team that gave Jim Bowden a job long after he had established himself as incompetent, so I guess there’s a chance they really don’t like having a talented young-ish outfielder on the roster.
No Way!
Steve Pearce could put up the same projections as Dukes (246/.358/.423 with 16 HR and 10 SB in 494 PA.) and Pearce would less havoc and might go a full season w/o doing anything really stupid or destructive!
As Dukes has an option...
Maybe, but probably not. He’s a real maniac, and a possible serious cancer in the clubhouse. The guy is a major thug. Assault, battery, restraining orders, sex with family foster children, the whole bit. Not a cool dude. He would really have to show a cleaned up act, and as the Nats have released him, I’d say that’s pretty doubtful.
Sounds like he does have an option left. Could be a gamble worth taking to add him to our minor league system. But I imagine someone out there will give him a another shot to start at the MLB level. You can’t overrate talent in the MLB equation. Character is nice, but talent will get the opportunity.
And something about adding a Nationals castoff to our team bothers me.
No.
Dukes is a sociopath. He can bring nothing but discredit to the organization. I wouldn’t sign him if he were the last ballplayer on earth.
With you on this one.
There’s eccentric, and there’s young and dumb.
And then there’s stone crazy.
But, but...
at least he would give the organization some “street cred.”
"Never mistake motion for action." - Ernest Hemingway
Looks pretty much like the same thing
from where I sit. But for whatever reason, it seems to be the coin of the realm in contemporary culture.
"Never mistake motion for action." - Ernest Hemingway
sign him
send him to indy and see whats up. keep him on his meds and he might be ok.
He's not on meds.
There aren’t any meds that fix sociopathy. That’s why they try to keep jailed sociopaths behind bars forever – there’s no way to fix them.
Last year, the Nats did the best possible thing: they hired an ex-cop to accompany Dukes at all times and attempt to keep him out of trouble. (Link) The only better possible approach would’ve been one of those collars from “Battle Royale” that makes your head explode if you step out of line.
I was looking at the Nationals roster to see if they were making a spot for something and that doesn’t appear to be the case. They now have 6 openings on their 40 man rather than 5. This whole thing seems really strange.
Yeah
And I don’t know why they would hide a clubhouse/law issue if they outright released him. If they simply think they can replace Dukes’ numbers with other guys on the roster, then I have to disagree with their assessment (I don’t see anyone in FA who would replace his numbers either).
But yeah, no to Dukes. Have enough OFers, don’t need one that sends pictures of self holding gun to his baby’s mama with the caption “you.”
Keep him out of Pit
I’d rather see us trade to get Rajai Davis back rather than sign Dukes. Plus in addition to payroll in addition to an already crowded position PNC park’s security staff would have to triple…
I really WOULD be done with this team.
No no no no no no no
NO NO NO Not in a million, trillion kajillion fvcking years!
.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
durka mouhammed durka
Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Greg Llyod, Andy Russel, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene and Jerry Kramer
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Canal Street Chronicles resident Steelers Fan
by WVPiratesfan on Mar 18, 2010 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions
well
i just came on here to make this exact post, but i was too late. I don’t know how I feel about this guy. I agree with all the comments about his character. The guy is insane. But for how long we’ve been losing, I think we take a risk on him. I think signing him and letting him tear it up in AAA would be a good move for all parties involved. I wouldn’t mind seeing him play at PNC, or even wearing his jersey, but just don’t expect me to approach him for an autograph. That’d be terrifying.
I wouldn't go to a game if he was on the roster.
Having to watch sleazebags like Mesa and Wil Cordero was bad enough. Dukes would be a bridge too far.
How do you know...
…that you’ll go blind if you stare at the sun long enough? It’s just the way things work.
I believe that some people can change their behavior.
I don’t believe that Dukes is one of them. Because he’s a sociopath, and sociopaths are definitionally incapable of rehabilitation.
which begs the question
How do you know he’s a sociopath? Unless you know him pretty intimately, I think there’s just as much evidence that he’s a not-very-intelligent guy from a bad background with anger problems. It’s not super-important; I’m just curious why you hate the guy so much that you can’t even give him the benefit of doubt.
It’s also very debatable, by the way, whether or not sociopaths can be “rehabilitated.”
I'm perfectly willing to agree...
…that Dukes is a guy from a bad background with anger problems. That does not in any way prevent him from also being a sociopath.
The DSM-IV-TR Diagnostic Criteria for Antisocial Personality Disorder are as follows:
A) There is a pervasive pattern of disregard for and violation of the rights of other occurring since age 15 years, as indicated by three or more of the following:
1: failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest. [Yep!]
2: deceitfulness, as indicated by repeated lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal gain or profit.
3: impulsivity or a failure to plan ahead. [Arguably.]
4: irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults. [Yep!]
5: reckless disregard to safety of self or others.
6: consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations. [Arguably.]
7: lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from others. [Yep!]
[Three definite yesses, plus several more that are arguable. He passes.]
B) The individual is at least age 18 years.
[Yep!]
C) There is evidence of Conduct Disorder with onset before age 15 years.
[Yep! His problems were readily apparent as a juvenile.]
D) The occurrance of antisocial behavior is not exclusively during the course of Schizophrenia or a Manic Episode.
[Impossible for me to know for certain, but likely yes.]
He also displays many of the other traits commonly associated with the type, including arrogance, glibness and personal charm, impulsivity, and low empathy.
While I'm generally suspicious of
one-size-fits-all, cookie-cutter constructs, I must say that most of this fits George W. Bush.
"Never mistake motion for action." - Ernest Hemingway
Please also note...
…that I don’t “hate” Dukes, in the sense of wishing him ill or anything like that. I just don’t trust him, and don’t see how any reasonable person could at this point.
Well, honestly, I don’t trust him either, and I don’t want him on the Pirates, given my limited perspective, but I also don’t think that I’m in a position to judge whether or not he’s an irredeemable sociopath. I think you’d have to be both a trained mental health practitioner and a personal acquaintance of him before making that kind of judgment. Reading the DSM-IV doesn’t really cut it.
See my reply above.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Mar 18, 2010 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Well Dang
I see how it could push some of us over the edge, oh well good thing its not up to us, lets hope NH makes the right decision. Bucs! Bucs! Bucs!
Flip 'im
Hey, why not send him to Indy, see if he can be improved? If he can be turned around, we can flip him to another team at the deadline for something since we don’t really need outfielders (hopefully). The only risk is that Tabata seems to be attracted to older criminal types, so he may end up marrying Dukes.
There’s no flipping someone like Dukes. If the Nats couldn’t trade him now, there’s no way anyone’s going to trade for him in four months, no matter how well he plays in AAA. In fact, it’s sort of a catch-22, since the better he plays, the more skeptical other teams will be about why we’re trying to trade him.
Dukes threatened to murder his own children.
He was arrested for assault three times before he even got out of high school. You think he’d be above injuring or killing another player as a result of a clubhouse dispute? Or that he’d be reluctant to drag other players into bad situations? To say nothing of the PR value of seeing him get hauled out of Indy’s clubhouse in handcuffs, if by some miracle he doesn’t take anybody else down with him when he (inevitably) blows it…
There’s tremendous downside here, and very limited upside. The Nats have already said that part of the reason they released Dukes is that there was zero trade interest in him from any other team in the league. There’s a reason for that.
NO TO ELIJAH DUKES
WE DONT NEED NO ELIJA DUCKS IN PITTSBURGH GET IT. HE IS A JACKASS!
RandyRandyTime
"Randy"
Pittsburgh
Pirates
by RandyRandyTime on Mar 21, 2010 11:28 AM EDT reply actions
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