Nate McLouth Speaks
by WTM on Mar 4, 2010 4:38 PM EST
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PrintThe PG, in the PBC Blog, has some comments from Nate McLouth, who still clearly carries a grudge against his old team.
A couple are pretty interesting. The significance of this one is almost certain to be missed in certain quarters:
It feels good to be in an organization that talks about the playoffs this year... and not have to talk about years down the road. It's good to have that feeling in spring training.
Obviously, this doesn't reflect well on the Pirates, and just as obviously it's nothing new. But what McLouth is saying here is that the players Neal Huntington has been ripped to shreds for trading away didn't expect to win. Yeah, that's right, for all the screaming everywhere from the PBC Blog to Bill Madden in his dimwitted column, the players themselves didn't think they made up a competitive team. If Nate McLouth and his teammates didn't think that team was going anywhere, why should Huntington have hesitated for a second to break it up?
There's also this:
(about finding out last fall he needed contact lenses) Guess they do [an eye exam in Pirates] spring training, but a blind man could pass that test. So I'd never really done a full eye exam. Got home a couple days after the seaosn ended and ended up getting contacts. It was kind of interesting to find that out when I got home. I noticed a problem. It has been a big help.
The Pirates' critics will no doubt jump all over this, and maybe they should. But note that the Braves, who should have done a physical before finalizing the trade, didn't catch the problem, either.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of the managing editor (Charlie) or SB Nation. FanPosts are written by Bucs Dugout readers.
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I’ve heard the contact lenses thing happen with other players. For example, I’m pretty sure Limas Sweed didn’t wear them until the Steelers figured out he needed them.
I don’t know how the hell that happens, though. McLouth said he never had another eye exam other than that one? But he also says, “I noticed a problem”?
I got glasses / lenses when I realized: Hey, I’m having trouble reading this and things aren’t very clear. Maybe I should see a doctor. Do athletes really need a team-sponsored physical to figure out they need corrective lenses?
"Do athletes really need a team-sponsored physical to figure out they need corrective lenses?"
yes the do apperently. Because I think that they think it would in someway hurt their stock if they went and got correctlive lenses without a team telling them to
Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Greg Llyod, Andy Russel, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene and Jerry Kramer
"the earth moves when Sean Payton walks...Because his balls are just that huge." Anarchon after Super Bowl XLIV
Canal Street Chronicles resident Steelers Fan
I know teams get mad when a player has surgery without their consent/knowledge, so perhaps you’re right and players basically expect the teams to act like their parents.
I think it’s a pretty long jump from surgery to eye exam, though. In any case, it isn’t clear to me why Nate couldn’t have said, “Hey, I think my eyes may need checked out.”
This kind of stuff happens surprisingly often.
Matt Diaz played with one bad eye for years, and didn’t find out until the Braves gave him a physical.
Lots of people
never have their eyes checked. I think that, if your parents don’t wear specs as kids, then you don’t assume you need glasses, and so never go to the eye doctor (my wife’s never been, and she’s 40; come to think of it, I should bug her to go). I’ve known several people who’ve said things like, “I never knew you were supposed to be able to see blades of grass – I thought it was supposed to be a blur.” Humans are super-adaptive, and a bit of blurriness is easy to get used to.
Frankly, there’s probably also a bit of jock machismo involved as well – dorks wear glasses, studs don’t need them, and ballplayers are studs.
Or maybe I’m just projecting.
I played baseball
I was not a stud by any stretch of the Imagination
Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Greg Llyod, Andy Russel, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene and Jerry Kramer
"the earth moves when Sean Payton walks...Because his balls are just that huge." Anarchon after Super Bowl XLIV
Canal Street Chronicles resident Steelers Fan
I don't know about eyes...
…but it’s probably been five years since I went to a dentist. Because I am gross, and also constantly working.
I could see someone not getting around to it, if it wasn’t that bad.
These didn't hurt either, and were, in fact, healthy:
…but they had to come out because of surrounding badness.
Get thee to a dentist, pronto.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
by cocktailsfor2 on Mar 8, 2010 1:11 PM EST up reply actions
But what McLouth is saying here is that the players Neal Huntington has been ripped to shreds for trading away didn’t expect to win.
While I agree with your main point, I’m not entirely sure McLouth is really saying that. When he says “It’s good to have that feeling in spring training,” what feeling is he referring to? Does he mean:
*It’s good to have the feeling that the organization expects the players to make the playoffs?
or
*It’s good to have the feeling that, completely independent of what the organization believes about the team, there are enough good players to make the playoffs?
It’s possible that the players could collectively feel like they have the talent to make the playoffs yet simultaneously think the organization’s management doesn’t share that belief.
Nate the Great?
McLouth did very well for himself considering where he came from. Nobody could’ve predicted his breakout success when he first came up and played for the Bucs. He’s a character guy and he gets the most out of his ability, but he’s not a CF to build your team around. He was only getting in Cutch’s way, and the fact that we got valuable prospects back in exchange for getting rid of him was a bonus! I enjoyed McLouth like everyone else while he was here, but I realize he wasn’t going to take us to the promised land, nor was Jack or Freddy and so on and so forth.
It IS SAD to see however McLouth bad mouthing the Bucs in these comments…Thought he had more class than that
Benny Benack III
Him an Sean Burnett can rip on the Pirates all they want
But it still doesn’t help their teams. Fact is, neither player has won anything, and if they do, they should THANK the Pirates for putting them in that situation.
Kevin Garnett did this after winning the NBA Championship. I remember he thanked the T’Wolves owners, fans, and former teammates, because he was grateful that they realized they wouldn’t compete with him, so they sent him somewhere to compete. If either Burnett or McLouth had any class, they would the same. Unfortunately, they really aren’t good enough to turn a team around like KG did, so they take their frustration out on the bucs.
http://www.points2shop.com/?ref=GJS867
by H2O on Mar 4, 2010 9:21 PM EST up reply actions
I fail to recall
any underhanded shots that the organization took at McLouth. Not quite sure where all this comes from. I also regret that he has to flame our organization when we come to play his team in spring training.
He’s right, though. The Braves sure have had a nice streak of play the past four years. Oh wait. Well certainly the signings of guys like Troy Glaus, Melky Cabrera and Eric Hinske will solidify their playoff berth. And since their announcers were so down on our prospects during todays game, here’s my final statement: Jo Jo sucks.
Jason
The Hanging Curve
As above
I too think its extremely unfortunate that McLouth appears to carry a personal grudge. He had a great season and a half as a Pirate, and clearly wished to remain a Pirate in the short term. It’s always good to move on, I guess, without bearing grudges. Most Pirate fans remember McLouth as the Gold Glove-r and the one shining light in the 2008 campaign, and taking unnecessary shots at the organization won’t help his standing with the fans.
Grudge?
I don’t think he’s carrying a grudge, he’s just being honest here. They probably get asked a lot about the streak and how bad the team has been for all these years, it probably gets old after a while. They’re trying to start the season and all the media seems to ask about is what a bunch of losers they are.
by IAPiratesFan on Mar 4, 2010 5:54 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I found most of his comments irratating
Especally when he said…
It’s tough knowing guys are going to get shipped out – I guess they’ve said they’re done with that now – but as a whole it’s nice to have that familiarity. And that’s something obvioiusly they don’t have right now."
So Nate knows the intricate details of the current chemistry in our clubhouse, even though he’s an Atlanta Brave? The players on the current roster are unfamiliar/lack chemistry with each other? Obviously he has no better idea than I do, but I’m willing to bet that the positive vibe/outlook in the 2010 clubhouse with the new nucleus is far beyond anything that was present while Nate was there (Nyjer excluded). I’ve read repeatedly that there is a new sense of promise & excitement in ST this year. Why Nate finds it necessary to bash that is beyond me.
He comes off as being completley bitter in this interview, and honestly I really don’t care what he has to say about the Pirates. He’s been in the rear view mirror for quite some time now.
I expected a little more diplomacy / tact / class from Nate
But what he’s saying is, in a roundabout way, fairly correct, IMO.
Free your ass and your mind will follow.
True enough, and to be fair, he’s aware that what the Pirates did makes sense:
Man, you know, it’s tough. You understand what they’re doing, to try to get as talent in the system as possible…
I think it’s understandable for a guy to want to stick around with his friends, familiar environment, etc.
(As a side note, it’s amazing how many typos made it into the post on the PBC)
Some Bashing, Some Truth
His comment “It feels good to be in an organization that talks about the playoffs this year… and not have to talk about years down the road. It’s good to have that feeling in spring training.” means to me that he is glad that the team his on now has more of chance to make the playoff than the Bucs did or have this year. While I doubt that the Braves will make the playoffs, it is nice that he can kindle this flame further into the season as a Brave than as a Buc.
However when 2011/2012 rolls around, he probably be saying he would prefer to be a Pirate than a Brave because the tables will have turned.
I didn’t really see any of it as bashing, exactly. Like I said, his comments were pretty obviously true. He didn’t really even go so far as to say it was the wrong move for them to rebuild. I just saw irony in his own clear lack of faith in the teams he was on in Pgh. in light of all the screaming about Huntington breaking that team up.
by WTM on Mar 4, 2010 6:13 PM EST up reply actions
Bad Mouthing Maybe?
Bashing might be the wrong wording. He is not saying nice things about his past team-or at least the words being quoted aren’t.
Usually a ex-teamate (except maybe Hinske) says “They have a core of talent and I wish them well.” Yada-yada-yada. Maybe he said this but it was not quoted.
Anyway, he is yesterday’s news.
His Vision Was His Responsibility
If he could not see, he should have told someone or done somthing! How stupid can he be? He is trying to hit a baseball and he can’t see it? Give me a break!
GASP...
the Pirates not being able to diagnose a health issue?? That’s never happened. It’s a sad sign when any decent eye exam would have caught his problem.
And when it comes to the lack of confidence in the current season (obviously in the 2009 season)…that not only means that the guys traded didn’t have the confidence…but the ones left behind (you know…the 80% of the roster that’s still around)…didn’t have the confidence either.
And there is more truth in his last statement than most here would be willing to admit…about prospects not being guaranteed to hit. One should remember that as this season goes on. A lot of faith is being put into Pedro, Clement, Tabata, etc.
Andy LaRoche and Ryan Doumit are the only starting position players that are still around from the first half of the 2009 season. So that’s not quite 80%.
Anyway, I would say the lack of confidence in years past was certainly warranted. After all, if someone wasn’t producing there was no remedy for it. The starting pitching was mostly horrible and there was no way to get anyone who would be better. If a position player wasn’t producing, there was no remedy. If someone got hurt, there was no remedy.
Now, at least there is the start of something that could be seen as having options that could improve the team mid-season.
Nutting is to blame here...
…too cheap to pay for a decent eye exam.
by Mike_LaValliere's_Cup on Mar 4, 2010 8:17 PM EST via mobile reply actions
now we know the real reason why we didn't catch his eye problem
Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Greg Llyod, Andy Russel, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene and Jerry Kramer
"the earth moves when Sean Payton walks...Because his balls are just that huge." Anarchon after Super Bowl XLIV
Canal Street Chronicles resident Steelers Fan
by WVPiratesfan on Mar 5, 2010 11:15 AM EST up reply actions
I do.
Its because they were given the test by being asked to read a newspaper. (Rumor has it the team was required to buy 100 Nutting owned papers for the test). But, because no one reads newspapers anymore, it was missed. Damn Nutting…
The glare of the spotlight is harsh, and the pressure that success breeds immense. We revere our heroes, but expect much. And criticism can come as easily as praise.
And there is more truth in his last statement than most here would be willing to admit…about prospects not being guaranteed to hit.
Damn! And all this time I thought they were 100% guaranteed! Why didn’t anybody bring this up before!!
JR House
the biggest waste of money ever
Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Greg Llyod, Andy Russel, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene and Jerry Kramer
"the earth moves when Sean Payton walks...Because his balls are just that huge." Anarchon after Super Bowl XLIV
Canal Street Chronicles resident Steelers Fan
by WVPiratesfan on Mar 5, 2010 11:16 AM EST up reply actions
I think House could've been a productive ML player.
They really screwed him when they didn’t diagnose his shoulder injury and made him try and play through it for 2+ years. Not only did he lose all that development time, and not only did he rip up the labrum and the cuff worse than he otherwise would’ve, he also was bone-on-bone in the shoulder for so long that he actually wore a groove into the socket.
JR House might have been a better football player than baseball player
I think he holds just about every state record for passing in West Virginia and he has his own rule about transferring
Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Greg Llyod, Andy Russel, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene and Jerry Kramer
"the earth moves when Sean Payton walks...Because his balls are just that huge." Anarchon after Super Bowl XLIV
Canal Street Chronicles resident Steelers Fan
by WVPiratesfan on Mar 5, 2010 11:38 PM EST up reply actions
Hell
he had some national passing records as well. He threw something like 10 TD passes in the state AAA championship game, when Nitro beat Morgantown by the basketball score of something like 69-53. I watched part of that game on TV and House’s touch was amazing for a teenager. He had a pretty good receiver who it was clear they’d worked hard together, and House was throwing him 30-yard out passes with the guy’s toes on the sideline. It was amazing, like watching Peyton Manning play in a Pop Warner game or something.
Many folks forget that House actually quit baseball for a semester to try college football and played a season for WVU. Well, he didn’t play much, and toward the end of the year I believe he got the OK to leave the team and go back to baseball.
Maybe having so much talent in two sports was a kind of curse. He could never quite make up his mind which sport he really wanted to play the most, and perhaps wound up a lesser player in both because of that.
It really is sad the way he got screwed up by the Pirates, but in the doctor’s defense (and I’ve gained some new practitioners in the field with my recent health issues), one guy can say one thing (“95% chance it could be …”) and another something quite different (“It could be a lot of things …”). As much as we’d like it to be (and anybody who’s watched a few episodes of the ironically-named [for this thread] “House” knows), medicine is still not an exact science.
According to wikipedia...
(Which is never wrong)!
House was plagued by many injuries. In 2001, he was twice on the disabled list with bruised ribs. A year later, he had surgery three times – for an abdominal hernia, a torn muscle and finally Tommy John surgery. The last surgery cost him most of the 2003 season. Additionally, he missed a month in 2000 due to mononucleosis.
It sounds like this guy should have gotten an apartment inside an emergency room.
He has said that the TJ...
…happened as a result of him changing his throwing mechanics when he injured the shoulder (after it wasn’t treated). He had to find a new arm slot that didn’t hurt as much, which unfortunately put more strain on the elbow…
all that hitting...
what about the pitching prospects?
Would they just walk the hitting prospects and get on with the rest of the non-prospect team?
by BlindSquirrel on Mar 7, 2010 8:18 PM EST up reply actions
He said a little worse to the AP:
``It was tough in spring training last year,‘’ McLouth said. ``Here, everybody
is positive. I know [Pittsburgh] was trying to amass as much talent as they can
get, but it was an atmosphere where everybody was uptight. You see so many things
that are written negatively and it becomes tough to deal with. We tried to stay
positive, but here with the Braves, everyone thinks they can win. It isn’t always
about next year.’’
“things that are written negatively”
Geezum, I wonder who would do that? coughSmizikCollierCookcough
Bahhh
See, Nutting Hostage has ruined it for all of us.
by MarkInDallas on Mar 4, 2010 10:04 PM EST up reply actions
I feel I should point this out to Mr. Smizik
and see what he has to say to me. I’ll give you all the credit, Mr. bucdaddy.
Not Collier and Cook?
As long as you’re finking, why leave them out?
Eh, because Smizik already has a blog.
And he’s responded to me already, so I know he’s good to read a comment or two.
Nate
Nate got his money and he should shut up no one ever thought he would be where he is . And the Bucs got a player Charlie M for him GREAT JOB NH .
Nate should take a long look in the mirror
Every ex-Pirate like McLouth fails to realize that when they make derrogatory comments about losing in Pittsburgh, they are actually making the case for the Pirates themselves.
Bay, McLouth, Wilson, Sanchez, Snell, Gorzo, Burnett, and LaRoche all played on the SAME team and what di they get? 65 wins… OUTSTANDING! Not one of these guys are more than a role player to a more successful team. Thankfully Huntington put loyalties and favorites aside and dealt all of them. What is obvious is the fact that fan favorites don’t always produce winning teams and Pirate fans a re notorious for elevating a players worth because of popularity beyond his actual talent.
As far as Bay goes, he is a very good player, but he isn’t a superstar and certainly wasn’t the guy who was going to lead us to the promised land and for fans to say that the Pirates should have kept him at all cost was ridiculous. Bay would have been on the first plane out of town upon his free agency, for anyone who doesn’t believe that, your living in a fantasy world. Also why would you pay 15 Million a year to a player who wasn’t going to take you to the promised land.
I love Jason Bay, he always was a great guy to deal with and said all the right things. But you could see he needed a fresh start. The organization failed him five years before it traded him, and that was a different organization than the one that traded him.
I don’t think people understand that the organization has changed. But they will, heck even Mike and Mike were talking about the Pirates looking like they are on the right path and are predicting a better finish than we had with the “core” we let go this year.
And for those of my friends that I link this to in 2011 and 2012, I told you so.
to be fair
Bay is quite a bit more than a role player. He hit almost entirely 4th/5th/6th for the Red Sox even (he had the most ABs at cleanup), and it looks like he’s going to clean up for the Mets. Probably will after Beltran returns too, because otherwise you are having Wright hit fourth, and after last season…
Bay is a player you build a team around. Either him and a guy or two of his caliber, or maybe he’s second fiddle to a superstar, but he can be an important player in a playoff team. The fact of the matter is, he wouldn’t have helped last year’s team get to the playoffs, and we certainly would have lost him this year (no way we can pay him what he wants on the open market…and what he got was over his value at any rate), so we’ve got to trade him while he’s got good value and hit with some guys we get in return. You are right about the realities of his situation, because with a small market team we can only keep our best players for so long, and Bay was on the tail end of that time period.
Jason
The Hanging Curve
If Nate McLouth and his teammates didn’t think that team was going anywhere, why should Huntington have hesitated for a second to break it up?
I think if you asked Nate, he’d say that the answer is that management should have been looking to build on that core, rather than blow it up. Organizations that “expect to win” aren’t orgs that have all the championship talent they need; they’re orgs that go out and get the talent they need to create a championship-caliber roster. The 2008 Brewers didn’t have enough talent to reach the playoffs, but, instead of trading off their talent, management went out and got Sabathia, and got them into the playoffs.
It’s certainly reasonable to say that the ‘08 Bucs couldn’t realistically have added enough talent to compete for the playoffs, but Nate’s point (I think) is that the players themselves knew that, pretty much no matter what, no talent was going to be added, because management wasn’t committed to winning in the near term.
If the Yankees or the Mets find themselves with baseball’s 3rd-best offense but are short a couple of starters, they’ll go out and find 2 starters; the Pirates blow up the offense.
(To be clear: I’m really really really uninterested in revisiting the specifics of the 2008 Pirates. I’m mostly responding to Charlie’s flawed logic.)
I think if you asked Nate, he’d say that the answer is that management should have been looking to build on that core, rather than blow it up
How?
Like you do on the Playstation, just go in and edit their stats until they are good players, then sign the best free-agents to fill the gaps held by players you don’t like.
by Phantaskippy on Mar 5, 2010 1:20 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I said I’m not getting into the argument again. But they had MLB’s 3rd-best offense, some decent relievers, and 2 pretty good starters. Find a #5 starter, sign a #3 starter, and hope that Snell or Gorzo return to form, and you could imagine a .550 team – especially if you’re a member of the team who believes in yourself and your teammates.
WTM’s claim is that McLouth has indicted himself and his teammates; I’m pointing out that that’s not the most logical implication of the quote.
WTM’s claim is that McLouth has indicted himself and his teammates; I’m pointing out that that’s not the most logical implication of the quote.
I’m sure that wasn’t the intended implication, but the implication is there nonetheless.
by WTM on Mar 5, 2010 5:19 PM EST up reply actions
Just said this below
But I’ll repeat it: if the Pirates had signed a #3 starter before 2009, they would have been around .530 and in 2nd or 3rd place at the All-Star Break. #3 starters aren’t vastly expensive commodities. If the team had been interested in winning in 2009 – as opposed to being interested in laying the groundwork to compete in 2012 – they could have done that without breaking the bank or compromising the future. But that wasn’t their priority.
Let me put it this way: do you believe that, in December, 2008, NH expended any effort towards making the playoffs in 2009, or do you believe that he was looking to accumulate talent with an eye toward the future? It doesn’t matter whether or not he was right to do so – Nate’s argument is that he was doing the latter, not the former, and that it’s a nice change to go to an org that looks to win in the coming season, not the (relatively) distant future.
If Nate and his teammates didn’t expect to reach the playoffs in the Spring of 2009, that was an honest observation of the talent that Mr. Huntington had assembled – including the failure to add. Every player – even Yankees – likes to see offseason acquisitions. Doesn’t mean they all think they’re losers.
I think NH was looking to see whether the talent on hand showed they had the ability to get close enough to contention to make it worthwhile upgrading somewhere to try to get into contention. I even recall him and Coonelly challenging the team to do that. They didn’t.
by WTM on Mar 5, 2010 5:49 PM EST up reply actions
Left Field
The question this raises for me is if he had stayed and they called up Cutch and made Nate move to Left would he have been o.k. with it or bitched? I think he would have bitched about winning an undeserved GG and been a pain in the ass. There is no pleasing some people.
by Blyleven Curve Ball on Mar 5, 2010 12:32 PM EST reply actions
I will say
These quotes make me more willing to believe that Nate would have been an ongoing problem if forced to move – he seems pretty willing to hold on to the bitterness.
That said, winning changes a lot – if Cutch came up, and an OF of NyjMo, Cutch, and Nate was part of a .500 team*, with some excitement building around it, he would have gotten over it, I think.
And then totally freaked out when they traded everyone else.
- as I’ve pointed out a million times, they were a Pythagorean .495 team the day NyjMo was traded, and they would have been better with a month of Nate vs. the month of Moss they got instead
The problem with this
is that they were playing under .500 ball against the part of their schedule which was filled with competition under .500. The hardest part of their schedule was ahead of them and against the other teams in the division they had proven themselves pathetically inadequate. They had a losing record against every other team.
I would be they approached him with it. I can’t imagine they didn’t even talk about this before deciding they wanted to trade him. My bet is that NH and JR talked to him about the possibility of him moving to a corner, and he probably did not want to.
The glare of the spotlight is harsh, and the pressure that success breeds immense. We revere our heroes, but expect much. And criticism can come as easily as praise.
It’s certainly reasonable to say that the ‘08 Bucs couldn’t realistically have added enough talent to compete for the playoffs, but Nate’s point (I think) is that the players themselves knew that, pretty much no matter what, no talent was going to be added, because management wasn’t committed to winning in the near term.
Most Pirate fans would view this statement and completely miss the first line which is true but unfortunately, the last line is pure speculation and in my opinion incorrect. No team goes out to lose and I don’t believe the Pirates are any different. The Pirates FO realized that they were not going to win anything with the core players that they had so why waste money on a FA or 2 just to get them to .500. Sure it might have pleased many of the Pirates faithful, but it would have set us back further in our process of building a perennial winner. If McLouth and the rest of the guys wanted to win so badly, why didn’t they perform better? Frankly, they just weren’t talented enough.
Yes and No
You’re absolutely right that, as far as building an ongoing winner, the route they’ve taken is the higher-percentage one, because it allowed them to trade core players for max value, rather than trading marginal players (or, god forbid, real prospects) to bolster an OK but not great (and aging) core.
But I think there’s no denying that management – old* and new – had very little interest in short-term efforts. NH’s mantra for ‘08 and ’09 was, "if you show us you’re a winner, we’ll boost you," which is sensible – it means you don’t throw resources to go from 80 to 83 wins in a 6 team division – but also translates to, well, not being committed to winning in the short term. The pre-trade ‘09 team still had an above-average offense (3rd in the division, 7th in the NL), but nothing substantial had been done before the season to bolster the rotation (or the bullpen), and so it was a mediocre club, hovering below .500. Add one #3 starter before the season, and the odds are that they’re around .530 at the All-Star Break – which isn’t exactly WS pace, but it’s winning, and it hasn’t compromised anything but the team’s profits.
Anyway, as I say, I’m really not arguing about what I, Pirates fan, think should or could have been done from Jan 1, 2008 to July 31, 2009 – I’m talking about Nate’s viewpoint, since that’s the basis of WTM’s post.
- it’s hard to apply any logic to what DL was doing his last 2-3 years, but it wasn’t an all-out effort to “win now”
Add one #3 starter before the season, and the odds are that they’re around .530 at the All-Star Break
Some problems with this.
First, at the time of the McLouth trade, they were 24-28 (.462). If you project that until the ASB, with rounding you get 41-47. A .530 team would be 47-41, a six-game swing from one pitcher in roughly 17 starts. At best that’s going to happen only if that one pitcher is an All-Star level talent, and probably not even then.
Second, good luck finding a 3rd starter who’d sign with the Pirates. You’re talking about 1st tier FAs. How many pitchers of that quality were on the market last year? I count three: Sabathia, Burnett and Lowe. It’s always been and will always be a fantasy to think guys like that will sign with the Pirates.
Third, Huntington did go out and get a guy he thought could be a third starter. But he had to trade McLouth to do it. Trades were the only realistic path open to him to make real (i.e., non-Randa/Burnitz type) improvements, but Littlefield left him with nothing to trade except the guys he did in fact trade.
by WTM on Mar 5, 2010 5:47 PM EST up reply actions
WTM
I believe is talking about Morton not Locke.
The Pirates would have needed to add over $100 million to the 2009 payroll (not to mention like $600 million in future salary commitments) to be close to a .530 team. It just wasn’t feasible.
Translation:
“I was a star in Pittsburgh, I won awards, even got an MVP vote and a gold glove. Everyone in Atlanta hates me. They want an upgrade, where in Pittsburgh they are still mad they traded me away. We had fun playing Baseball in a beautiful park without worrying about too many people caring how bad we played, they still loved my bobble-head and wanted my autograph. Man I hate you Neil Huntington!!”
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