Daniel McCutchen, Hayden Penn Get Smashed
This game was like a bad keg party--you have a few minutes of fun, then do the same thing for too long, then make a bad decision or two, and all of a sudden there's upchuck all over the floor. Things were going smoothly at first, with an Andrew McCutchen homer and a two-run triple by Delwyn Young. But the ridiculous thirteen-run fourth inning changed all that.
Daniel McCutchen started that inning with a walk and a fielder's choice and then allowed back-to-back homers to Chris Snyder and Kelly Johnson. With the Pirates having no real trouble with Edwin Jackson and a 6-4 score, John Russell could easily have kept the game alive by putting in a competent reliever, but instead he stuck with McCutchen, who looked visibly distraught on the mound. McCutchen allowed singles to Edwin Jackson and Conor Jackson, and then a triple to Stephen Drew, and the Diamondbacks led 8-4. Russell finally put in a reliever; unfortunately, the one he picked was Hayden Penn, who simply should not have been pitching with only a four-run deficit and whose mess of an appearance inspired what's sure to be one of the more interesting quotes we hear from a broadcaster this season:
"Hayden Penn pretty much upchucked all over Chase Field when his name was called" – Mark Grace
Yeah, there pretty much was upchuck all over the place. Penn entered the game with a runner on third, and the runner got to come home when Penn upchucked his first pitch all the way to the backstop. He then allowed a walk, a single, another walk, an RBI groundout and, for good measure, another walk. He had no idea where his pitches were going; he looked poised to run toward home after each pitch in the very likely event that the catcher would have to run somewhere to clean up his upchuck.
Normally I'm against making quick decisions about players, regardless of how much upchuck they spew in a given week, but Penn isn't someone who ever deserved a lot of time to begin with, and he hasn't shown any ability to command his pitches or get big league hitters out. He does have a good arm, but that could be said about any number of pitchers who stay marooned at AAA. I think it's doubtful anyone would claim Penn on waivers anyway, so there isn't much of a downside to just designating him for assignment and, assuming he clears waivers, dealing with him at Indianapolis.
A small problem with getting rid of Penn is that there aren't a lot of relievers (besides Joel Hanrahan, obviously, who will be back soon while Daniel McCutchen temporarily goes to Class AAA) banging on the door. Vinnie Chulk appeared to be first in line after Spring Training, but he imploded in Indianapolis' first game and has allowed ten runs in two innings there. Brian Bass or Chris Jakubauskas or Jean Machi or someone could be next after that. (Jakubauskas took a loss today starting for Indianapolis, allowing three runs in five innings; Steven Jackson also allowed four runs.)
In any case, with the game well out of control, Russell (reasonably, this time) turned to the Pirates' second-worst reliever in Jack Taschner, who promptly allowed a bases-clearing double by Snyder and a two-run jack by Edwin Jackson. And that, folks, is how you allow 13 runs in an inning--you let the opposing pitcher get two hits, including a homer; you stick with your flustered starting pitcher for too long; and you let Hayden Penn pitch. And that pretty much does it. Bobby Crosby added a two-run homer of Bob Howry in the ninth, but this game was effectively over in the fourth inning.
Earlier today I also watched a bit of the Altoona Curve game, which ESPN carried because Stephen Strasburg was pitching. Chase D'Arnaud and Jordy Mercer didn't start, so there really weren't a lot of hitting prospects to watch, but I was impressed with Rudy Owens, who pitched five innings. There weren't any radar gun readings on the broadcast, but Owens' stuff obviously wasn't bad--in fact, his curve was downright good. And he's very polished for his age; his command looked very good in the innings I saw. This could be the kind of thing I feel stupid for saying later, but Owens actually looks like he shouldn't have much trouble this year.
Bradenton doesn't play today (Nathan Adcock will start tomorrow), so the only team anywhere in the organization that had an unambiguously good day was the West Virginia Power, which had an excellent start from Quinton Miller (who had three strikeouts, no walks and one unearned run in five innings) and also broke out of its offensive slump, with homers by Evan Chambers, Jesus Brito and Kyle Morgan. Chambers also singled and doubled and is now hitting .250/.471/.583 over four games. So... there's that.
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I think Bradneton is off today.
Looks like Adcock goes tomorrow. Chambers game was good to see. He’s interesting prospect to follow. Apparently his focuss this year is to be more selective with two strikes. He blames his selective two strike approach for the number of K’s last season. His OBP so far is impressive and if he can indeed cut down the K’s he will avoid the Romak career path and be a very interesting prospect to follow.
We made the ESPN Lead!
The good news is we made the ESPN lead. The bad news is that it’s for giving up 13 in an inning. Now I can’t even watch the Sun night game and forget about this.
Yinzers uber alles
One bright spot...
Giants-Braves game is underway after a 4 hour 8 minute rain delay. That means we miss Tim Lincecum for this series.
Small correction, Charlie:
In the writeup, you say that we were up four when Penn came in, when we were actually down four.
Which, in turn, makes the decision to use him less unreasonable to me.
Hayden Penn, who simply should not have been pitching with only a four-run lead
I think he meant when the DBacks only had a 4 run lead and Jackson was hittable…
In fairness, this one has to go on Russell… DCutch should have been outta the game when after the 2 homers he walked Adam Laroche…. Russell left him out to dry, till Stephen Drew’s triple, which basically put the game out of reach at 8-4, even at which point it should have been Carrasco, since it was what the 4th inning…
McCutchen is at the point in his career...
…where he needs practice working his way out of jams, rather than counting on the manager to call in the cavalry when he gets himself into trouble.
Carrasco would have been a justifiable decision, but I don’t think it was necessarily an error to go with the mopup man down four in the fourth with your SP out of the game. If you put a pitcher on a manager’s staff, then sooner or later he’s going to get used. You can’t always say, “Oh, we’ll get Penn some work next time.”
Plus, Carrasco went 2 2/3 two days ago. He might not have been up for another long stretch so soon. And it’s not like he’s been lights-out so far this year, either.
all i m saying is
we should have gone to a reliever where we had a chance. While Penn mayn’t be a rule 5 pick we are hiding, we saw what would happen a couple of outings back. Admittedly, I didn’t see him last time, although it did look like mailing it in to me.
In any case, DCutch clearly wasn’t in it, the game was within reach and he should have been pulled is my stance. It may have been perfectly fine to leave him in there, but it didn’t strike me like that as all…
I think a lot of people here...
…are overestimating our chances of coming back in this particular game. We were, after all, starting backups in three of our eight lineup positions.
by Vlad on Apr 11, 2010 10:16 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I will suggest.....
that the difference between some of our “backups” and “starters” is not so great. Young’s bat vs. LaRoche’s, Church’s bat vs. Clement’s……..I think the point of coming back is fair down four. But, I don’t think it is because we had three backups in the lineup.
While the difference may not be enormous...
…(and I would disagree with you on Young vs. LaRoche – defense matters too, as Young showed yesterday), there’s a reason that all of those guys are backups instead of starters: They aren’t as good.
As such, their presence in the lineup made it even less likely that we would’ve successfully managed a comeback.
D Cutch was looking so good.... until he imploded
Always giving up a lot of home runs. Still has some promise though. Penn is just garbage. I still can’t believe JR went to him. Who the hell in their right mind goes to a pitcher of Penn’s ability and confidence in a situation like that. Probably wanted to get some laughs watching the D-Backs destroy him. If only that were the reason.
by dulciusXasperis on Apr 11, 2010 9:12 PM EDT reply actions
I am perfectly serious when I ask this:
If you aren’t willing to go to the mopup guy when you’re down by four (and trending down) then why is he on the roster at all?
by Vlad on Apr 11, 2010 9:23 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Agreed 100%
Penn isn’t a Rule 5 guy that you are hiding because you like his upside. This is a guy who can either help you this year, or he gets cut. If down 4 and your SP getting pulled in the 4th isnt a low enough leverage situation to trust him, he has to go.
good question
maybe the answer lies in that he shouldn’t be on the roster at all just yet, but given that he was, the manager should be finding an appropriate time to bring him in. This was not it.
Wow.
I’m so glad I missed this one. I was thinking if they won, I’ll be sure to watch, just like last nights game, which I watched early this afternoon. This one will be deleted and never watched. It’s like it never happened for me. On to San Francisco…
Is the Penn acquisition a joke?
Serious question. This guy doesn’t belong anywhere near the major leagues. And it’s even more scary that he is the first guy JR goes to in the bullpen today. Maybe JR thought it was over and it didn’t matter, but this Penn guy needs to be cut immediately. That is God awful.
Another thing…I was going to ask this today anyway (before D. McCutchen imploded), but how close is Brad Lincoln to being ready to be in our rotation? He spent half the year or so in Triple A last year. I was just wondering.
Hopefully...
Lincoln will be ready around the same time is Pedro. He was far from impressive in his first outing but I do think he will be ready for Pittsburgh in a couple of months.
Penn's last call
I said this earlier but IMO Penn was always going to be 1st in today if possible. They need to make a roster move on Mon and it’s between Penn or D Cutch.
Yinzers uber alles
Ha!
Daniel McCutchen and Hayden Penn? Flip a coin…
by IAPiratesFan on Apr 12, 2010 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions
penn
this guy needs to leave…..we need to get lincoln up and hanrahan healthy…other than that atleast mccutchen played well
Those of you freaking out about putting in Penn
When Hayden Penn entered the game (down 4, man on third, 1 out, bottom of the 4th), Arizona’s win expectancy was 92.1%. As Vlad is saying, if this isn’t a game you go to the mop-up guy in, what is?
I mean, seriously
Penn contributed a whopping -4.5 WPA. JJ was -5.3. MVP was -11.5. This is building Mt Everest out of a molehill here, folks.
But but but...
…Russell should’ve fought tooth and nail for that 8% chance! Who cares about evaluating the roster and learning about your guys in game situations? We’ve got (~72) games to win!
by Vlad on Apr 11, 2010 10:21 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Not to mention!
That 8% is the chance an average team (which we are not) wins that game from that situation against another average team (which they are not)!
There's always a chance
Says the guy whose dad and brother left the Brian Giles Grand Slam Off Billy Wagner game after the 8th. :)
it doesn't take a lot
for that win expectancy to change… the biggest thing in your favor when you’re dealing with low win expectancy is time, and we had 5 innings to come back 4 (I’ve argued before, and Charlie pointed out in the recap about leaving DCutch in long enough that we could be down 4, when he should have been pulled earlier, as a big strike against JR).
What would the win expectancy have been if we were down 2 after 6? I m not saying that someone else who came in wouldn’t have given anything up, but Penn was never likely to be the person who would keep you in the game.
by BurgherKing on Apr 12, 2010 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Silly argument....
Win expectancy is win expectancy. At that point in time at was roughly 8%. From there you can make up any scenario you like, but it isn’t really relevant to the actual situation that existed.
it is
a statistic with high variance is less reliable than one with low variance.
(I don’t actually know if it is high variance though)
by BurgherKing on Apr 12, 2010 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Regarding Strasburg/Owens
Was intrigued by the Strasburg debut so I drove out for the Curve game. He was pretty good, although not dominant by any means. Fastball sat in the 95-98 range all afternoon. I was a little bummed to see 0 worthwhile players in the starting lineup (Gorkys doesn’t count as worthwhile yet, if ever). Bottom line is, the guy gave up 4 runs to a Pirates AA affiliate featuring 0 quality starters. Still put up 8 Ks, but he definitely still has some work to do before he begins mowing down the majors like Tim Lincecum.
Owens’ velocity sat mostly in the high-80s, fastball was generally around 88 or 89. Hit 90 a few times. Curveball had a nice break, and sat in the 73-75 range. He definitely pitched a pretty good game but was let down by some, how shall I say, less-than-stellar defense. Although, Jose De Los Santos did make a nice diving stop/quick throw to get an out.
Owens got me so excited yesterday. In Keith Law’s scouting report on Strasburg, he included a blurb on Owens, calling him “Zach Duke redux” and a fifth starter. I love/hate that comparison. It looked to me like Owens is Zach Duke with a K pitch (that curve was awesome). He’s going to be hittable because of the mediocre fastball velocity, but he’s going to get his fair share of Ks too. He got a lot of groundballs yesterday, too, and if that trend continues I’ll be even more excited about him.
If there’s a performance story in today’s game, it’s not Penn or Russell. It’s yet another poor start from the rotation. The early returns besides Zach Duke are not good, but there’s plenty of time to right the ship. Another month to month and a half will tell a fuller story.
Ohlendorf vs Zito tomorrow...
looks like a favorable matchup on paper. Let’s hope Ohlie can build off of that 1st start.
Zito has actuallly
pitched much better since the second half of last year and I don’t think many people realize it. His last 15 starts last year he pitched 86 innings with 74Ks/37BBs and a 2.83 ERA and gave up 8 HRs. Not Roy Halladay, but much improved over 2008 and the first half of ’09.
So, no I don’t think it looks all that favorable.
Also, the one move I question more than any other is if you are going to sit Clement every few days, doesn’t it make more sense to sit him against a lefty like Zito or Kershaw rather than hard throwing righties like Billingsley and Jackson? That, I don’t understand.
Presumably, they want to find out...
…whether Clement can hit MLB-quality LHPs or not. It’s the same reason they started Jones against them last year, even though he struggled in those situations.
i m with dtoddwin here… there’s a difference between anyone and Jones last year. Jones started pretty much every game, against LH or RH… Clement sits against RHs only to come back against LH. Not only has he had a (n unnecessary) game off, but he is coming back against opposition thats harder for him.
by BurgherKing on Apr 12, 2010 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Exactly
As someone pointed out in another thread. At least put him in positions where he is more likely to succeed.
We're six games into the season.
And Clement has started five of those six games. At this point, I don’t think anything’s been settled, as far as Clement’s usage pattern.
Sometimes an off-day is just an off-day.
He's only started 4 (played in 5)
And the point is, if you’re going to sit 2 out of 6 games, it should be the two where the opponent’s starter is lefthanded. Clement started against both lefties they’ve faced so far. If he starts against Zito tonight, that will mean he’ll have 2 starts v. righties, 3 v. lefties. I know it’s still only 7 games, but that’s still kind of a head-scratcher to me.
I’m down with players getting rest before they need it, (as in drinking before you’re thirsty), but there’s a team aspect that’s missed here too. I’m also down with testing Clement v. big league lefties. But I think the former could have been accomplished differently, and the latter can still be done over the remaining 156 games.
Team aspect
Sorry, started a thought and shifted gears. Keeping the bench sharp is a good idea, but why not do so with a focus on winning an actual game? And a little planning wouldn’t hurt. They knew they’d be facing Zito tonight, so why not sit Milledge/start Clement yesterday, and sit Clement/start Milledge tonight? And I’d like to see them both, a lot.
Yeah
The great USS Mariner site made a good point a couple days ago about fans just needing to take some breaths during the early going — some Mariners fans have been freaking out during the slow start.
Heh...
they were in for a letdown. The Mariners offseason was so hyped you would have thought they already won the world series. Fact is they may have one of the best defensive teams in baseball but their offense is far from good. Not only that their starting pitching 3-5 is suspect to say the least. They aren’t the worst team in the American League but I will be surprised if they finish more than 10 games over .500 let alone make the post season.
Russell can only deal with what he’s dealt. Penn and Taschner in the Pen? Delwyn Young as the primary 2B/3B backup? JR didn’t build this roster. Although Delwyn shouldn’t be anywhere near third when we have Bobby Crosby, and Iwamura used to play there, which would let us shift Young to 2nd (and Aki isn’t Derek Jeter where he has the standing to refuse to play a position. In fact, Jeter’s worst season is a lot better than Iwamura’s best).
So JR didn’t have any input to FC and NH when this roster was created?? If they didn’t build this roster, who did??
Rusell probably had a hand in choosing from among the guys in camp...
…but he wasn’t out there over the offseason handing out NRIs. If Russell’s given a choice between a guy who can’t hit (Bernier), a guy who can’t field (Young), and a guy who can’t do either (Vazquez), then it doesn’t matter how wise his recommendations are – he’s still going to end up with a substandard UT IF. Similarly, while Taschner has been pretty marginal thus far this year, our veterans’ performance at Indy thus far doesn’t do much to suggest that any of them would’ve been any better if they’d been picked instead. And Penn… Russell saw him pitch in a game exactly once before cutdown day. How heavily was NH going to weigh his opinion, there?
I mostly like the job that Huntington has done, but in general I’ve been somewhat disappointed by his performance in locating and signing quality NRI depth. It’s a small thing, but an edge is an edge, and we can’t afford to give any away.
Maybe I'm wrong about this, but...
..isn’t a mop-up guy like Penn still supposed to get outs? I have no problem if we feel the game may be out of reach to put Penn in and let him get rocked, as long as he’s still progressing the game along. To only get one guy out though?
It’s probably more of a mop-up role in that they’re working on his delivery and consistency. Much in the same way we tried to do that with Ian Snell, Tom Gorzelanny, Veal, Meek (granted Veal Meak both rule V picks) in keeping them up at the majors. So i’d expect him to get shelled. with 3 more games in SF back to back to back. you don’t wanna burn through your bullpen.
Sure you could’ve brought in Carrasco, Lopez, Meek and maybe Donnelly on Sunday. Remember it was the 4th inning… Figure each one would only pitch about 1 inning or so. Then Monday what do you have if Ohlie pitches a nice game? not as much staff wise, unless you expect Ohlie to go 8 innings and hand off to Dotel.
Well.....
Grabow got rocked again and took the loss. Snell got rocked and took the loss. Freddy is on the DL for the foreseeable future and Jack is hitting his customary .261/.292/.304 and has committed one more error than Cedeno thus far. Maybe that’ll make you feel better.
Nope
I am a bitter old dude :D. Actually I think Gorzo has a much better shot than Snell at actually sticking around in MLB. If Snell flames out this year he may be done.
by eyeofhorus777 on Apr 12, 2010 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Erm....
yeah, sorry ’bout that inning. Good luck for the rest of the season. Especially against the Giants?
I keep trying to reset my password to "penis", but it keeps telling me "too short".
I don't think
That’s going to be the last of “those” types of innings unfortunately. Thanks for the concern I hope we can take the series against the Giants, its still early and we have hope.
I'm hoping...
for a rainout today, as I am looking at the snow falling, up here in the mountains. Since I have tickets for Wednesday’s day game, maybe they’ll turn it into a doubleheader!!
Yes, the game yesterday was painful, and we just have to put it behind us. “No relation” blew his chance and I hope he’ll earn another, back in Indy. Ya gotta expect this team to have those kind of days but, I’d also expect the manager to be able to tell when someone doesn’t have it on a given day. Luckily, we have options to explore, and someone just needs to step up and take advantage of their opportunity.
Stick with the program!!

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